1. Guest,
    If you need help getting to know Xenforo, please see our guide here. If you have feedback or questions, please post those here.
    Dismiss Notice

3D An in-depth look at...™ CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Bob Furmanek, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
    Insider

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    4,173
    Here is our new article on the 3-D history of CREATURE, plus a review of the new Blu-ray.
    http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/an-in-depth-look-at-creature-from-the-black-lagoon-1
    We've included some original never-before-seen 3-D artwork from the studio files. I hope you will find it interesting.
     
  2. Doctorossi

    Doctorossi Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    841
    Likes Received:
    37
    Stellar! Thanks, Bob!
     
  3. Yorkshire

    Yorkshire Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,372
    Likes Received:
    303
    Great stuff.
    Bob, where the hell do you get all this stuff from?
    Steve W
     
  4. JoeDoakes

    JoeDoakes Premium
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    553
    Real Name:
    Ray
    Very interesting, but I have some questions:
    What exactly is the "stereo window"?
    What is 3-D Cancellation? What tvs have less than ideal 3-D cancellation? Why would it cause ghosting?
    BTW: If this title is rereleased next year together with other Sci-Fi titles, I hope Universal will fix this issue.
     
  5. GregK

    GregK Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2000
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    179
    Hi Joe,
    Stereo window is a term used to describe where subject matter is placed in stereoscopic (3-D) space. The "stereo window" being the display.
    If an object appears to be behind the screen, it would be "behind the stereo window". If an object appears out of the screen, it would be considered "outside the stereo window". Where and how objects appears in stereo can be manipulated (reconverged) in post after 3-D shooting if needed. The amount of actual depth/roundness (3-D) is determined by the original spacing of the stereoscopic 3-D rig called the "interaxial". It used to be the interaxial aspect was forever baked in at the time of shooting and could never be changed, but thanks to expensive digital post production tools, that too can occasionally be ..somewhat tweaked.
    In the review I originally was going to the use the more technical Z-space terminology with positive and negative parallax to describe the various changes in the convergence, but instead chose the "stereo window" wording, as I feel it is more descriptive and easier to follow.
    3-D cancellation or ghosting is how well a given 3DTV cancels out the left image from the right eye and vise versa. Its a hard fact that not all yet fully realize: All 3DTVs are not created equal. Certain material will highlight those shortcomings in lesser 3DTVs. 3DTVs with less than ideal cancellation typically include LCD and LED active display sets, although some do much better than others. The passive sets typically fair much better and DLP's cancellation ranks the best, and is often better than theatrical IMAX and Real-D. Movies with higher parallax, or movies where convergence isn't always at the stereo window, and features with higher contrast in the background and foreground can all highlight ghosting in certain displays. These scenarios are often creative artistic decisions and not flaws in the original production or mastering.
    Greg Kintz
    Technical Director
    3-D Film Archive
    http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/home
     
  6. Brandon Conway

    Brandon Conway captveg

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    7,973
    Likes Received:
    845
    Location:
    North Hollywood, CA
    Real Name:
    Brandon Conway
    Wonderful review.

    Moving the stereo window is such an odd choice, IMO. I guess Universal fears that if things aren't outside the stereo window people won't enjoy the 3D effect? Again, an odd choice.
     
  7. HDvision

    HDvision Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    185
    Location:
    Paris, France
    Real Name:
    David
    Thanks Bob, surprised to learn that they "remastered" some of the 3D.

    Looks like we have another thing fighting for now... it should be the original 3D, not remixed.
     
  8. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
    Insider

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    4,173
    Greg and I have discussed this in depth, pun intended.
    For the titles that we own, all alignment errors are being corrected. However, we are NOT altering the convergence because then you are changing the intent of the filmmaker. The directors and cinematographers were VERY careful where to place people and objects within the stereo window. If you start to change that, you're tampering with artistic decisions and we won't do that.
    I feel we need to preserve what was originally composed in 3-D and not change it. That would be wrong on so many levels.
    I suspect it was done on CREATURE to minimize the possibility of ghosting on active displays.
     
  9. JamesNelson

    JamesNelson Second Unit

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    8
    If Universal did alter the convergence (horizontal parallax), would that not in turn imply that what is on the final BD is not the complete "edge to edge" image from the OCN? The technicians would have needed some horizontal "wiggle room" with which to modify the convergence. Once they settled on the convergence they desired, they would need to zoom/crop the re-converged image to the final 1.85:1 AR, would they not? So in effect, modifying the convergence alters more than the stereoscopic landscape...it also results in some overall loss of horizontal information. Is this correct?
     
  10. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
    Insider

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    4,173
    Yes, that is correct.
    And there's no question about it; the convergence in the underwater footage has been altered.
     
  11. BJQ1972

    BJQ1972 Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    7
    Real Name:
    Barrie Quinn
    I had a sense, immediately, that something wasn't 'right' with this transfer. I don't think they did what they did to compensate for active displays though. In my opinion active displays, on plasma at least, display this type of 3D perfectly.
    I can only assume that this alteration to the 3d is due to inexperience, and lack of knowledge. Only when they involve people like Bob and Greg in the transfers will be sure that we are seeing what was originally intended.
     
  12. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
    Insider

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    4,173
    Julie Adams just commented on the article on her Facebook page:
    What an incredible article and pictorial. Fans of 3-D and Creature will love reading this!!! Thanks for sharing with our friends who visit this page!!! Best wishes -- Julie
     
  13. Russell G

    Russell G Fake Shemp
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,842
    Likes Received:
    486
    Location:
    Deadmonton
    Real Name:
    Russell
    Fantastic job!
     
  14. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
    Insider

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    4,173
    Thank you, Russell.
     
  15. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
    Insider

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    4,173
    I've just updated the article with more information on Universal's change to widescreen cinematography. It can be found under "The Shape of Creature."
     
  16. Matt Hough

    Matt Hough Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    13,673
    Likes Received:
    2,399
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Real Name:
    Matt Hough
    You can't ask for more validation than from the Creature's lady herself! Great job!
     
  17. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    5,514
    Likes Received:
    12
    Another great article Bob. I just have one bone to pick with you.....NO 3D IMAGES OF JULIE ADAMS IN THAT WHITE BATHING SUIT???? Shame on you!!!!
    :D
    Doug
     
  18. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
    Insider

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    4,173
    Oops!
    Greg and I will take care of that when we get back from LA at the end of the month.
     
  19. David Weicker

    David Weicker Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,178
    Likes Received:
    532
    Real Name:
    David
    Talk about wanting a Poke-In-The-Eye, In-Your-Face, Feels-Like-You-Can-Reach-Out-And-Touch-It experience. :cool:
    David
     
  20. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
    Insider

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    4,173
    Until we're back from LA, will this hold you over?
     

Share This Page