am a new svs sub owner (1 Viewer)

[Marcel_V]

I hate threadcrappers. Take the "playing around" to a different forum Alex. Every character in this thread from you is a waste of bandwidth and taking away from a subject im interested in.

 

[Alex_P]

I guess Marcel is having PMS... Then again, I wouldn't give a crap about you...


Now that's a lot of character for a crap-reciever...I hope you realized that ppl DON'T HAVE to talk about the topic you're interested in, so don't get all personal. After all, it's a forum dude.

Being a long day, I thought I would joke around for some fun... I guess I offended lots of SVSers here... Even if I don't agree w/ you ppl doesn't mean I'm wrong. The fact is that it actually cost half of the price to build one...I'm just stating my opinion. And I do know SVS lives up to what ppl said... I heard some demos at my frnd's house... There's no doubt about that... You guys mentioned about labor, but hey, it's a hobby... I love doing it... Just like the time you guys spending on searching and auditing different speakers, it's basically the same thing just different ways of doing it... You still spend time on it... Just another opinion of mines...

Don't get me wrong, most of you guys here know lots more than I do... I do respect that...

Alex,

 

[ChrisBee]

I was rather surprised by that link to the published responses for Adire drivers in their enclosures. Even my floorstanders can manage a lower roll-off point than some of those graphs. 40, 50 & even 60Hz 'elbows' for a high-end sub? :frowning:

What am I missing? :b

Nothing. I've got a 16-46 PCi!.

ChrisBee :wink:

 

[Wayne Ernst]

Craig, Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy the sub-making project. As a matter of fact, I've made 6 sub boxes since the beginning of this year. I have all the tools because of the work that I do as a profession. However, there is a point that one gets to in their life where sometimes, they don't mind paying someone to do something for them.

As an example, for 20+ years, I had changed the oil on my vehicles and very rarely had it done for me. After some debate, I've been taking my cars to the mechanic to have this activity now performed. I now find that it's O.K. to have 30 minutes of "relaxation" time as I sit in the waiting area while the oil is being changed on my vehicles.

D.I.Y. does not always equal cost savings. If one is building a D.I.Y. sub because they want to save some money, they really need to figure their time into the equation. The labor rates for a carpenter can vary, but $30.00 - 40.00 an hour could be used as a guide. With the PB1-ISD from SVS being approximately $599, it is very competitive in price.

It can be quite hard for the speaker-builder to compete with the prices that SVS and HSU offer. So much is offered for the prices being charged. Now take D.I.Y. vs. some of the other subs that are sold in retail channels also (e.g. Velodyne) and it's quite easy to see where one could save by going the D.I.Y. route because of all the "middle man" fees that get built into the prices because so many people have their hand in the cookie jar for the item.

If someone is going D.I.Y. vs. buying a pre-built sub, it really has to be done because of a "passion" for what they're doing. I think the desire to build such an item has got to be above any and all costs and time spent on such a project because without that, it is such a waste to spend time doing an activity that one does not enjoy. Aside from the "gripes" that I listed above, I do have a passion for what I do. I merely posted the items encountered while doing the building as more of a "reality check" for anyone who thinks D.I.Y. projects are all rosey. There can be issues with any project.

 

[terence]

Wayne, when you posted that it was exactly what i got out of it. You hit the nail on the head (no pun intended) with what all goes into DIY projects, that i have much respect for.

I with you on the oil change thing, and i have change my oil plenty of times before. When you let someone else do it you get a little qaulity of life back. I used to install Corian counter tops, when it came time to make mine i could have let the guys in the shop build them. I choise to build my own kitchen tops, and beleive me it takes time to make them.

 

[Craig Chase]

Wayne - You and I are in total agreement. There are some pictures on Kyle's Acoustic-Visions site of subwoofers (amd full range speakers) guys have built.

They are deservedly proud of their accomplishment.

That being said, and Wayne, this is not for you (you are cool...) .... if anyone wants to send me a subwoofer they built for $350 to compare against the Hsu VTF-3, I will do a full review, and pay shipping both ways on your subwoofer.

And my statement for a $350 sub... the cost must include driver, amp, mounting hardware, enclosure materials...shipping costs... everything.

I will even go to $500 for the materials... you just have to prove where these materials can be purchased...for the money quoted.

Any takers ?

 

[Dan Halchak]

Craig, you send me $500 and I'll do it.

...what don't mind those fingers crossed behind my back...

*takes money and runs* lol.

I agree, I think it would be really neat to see a DIY sub that's done for the roughly same price as a SVS/HSU/Adire/blah blah blah sub...

I agree there's often a lot of talk about DIYers...my past experience with DIY - anything, has been it always costs more than what you plan it to. There's always bumps in the road. That and I doubt that you can get a subwoofer for X amount when you only buy 1 - 4 of them when a company like HSU or SVS or Adire or blah blah blah, puts in an order for a couple thousand... Discounts come in balk orders.

Not saying a great DIY can't and don't exist, but often times it's hard to beat the price and performance of what a name brand (known good sub) can pump out, and the former mentioned companies (and all that I forgot and left out) are testiment to that.

Course that's just my opinion.
--------------------------------------
Ronneil, Congrats on the purchase, I'm sure you'll be amazed by that sub, and I'm sure you (like many of us) having taken that blind leap will be most impress with your new found toy

 

[Craig Chase]

Dan - I am not even posting this for negative reasons... It really would be interesting to see what one of these DIY designs is capable of handling.

If someone did send a sub he built for $500 that exceeded the VTF-3... that would be a great thing to discover, and worth the $100 in shipping...

 

[Dan Halchak]

Craig - I'm not bashing anyone nor saying it can't be done (well I know I can't do it lol). I'd love to see it too...and if someone does create one that far exceeds something like the VTF-3, I'll be the first to throw some money into mass producing them. lol

I would also specify in the DIY, that you also include any cosmetic touches, I don't think it's quite fair to have a blank sonotube sub with nothing on it compared to an SVS PCx.

Nor a boxed sub that is just MDF with no finish, yet the VTF-3 has it's black finish and peg legs.

I mean I know I don't want a wood looking speaker cabinet sitting in my living room when I could have something that looks much nicer.

Not saying it has to be fancy, but it can't look like it came right from the wood shop and slapped a speaker and amp on at the same time... If that makes any sense.

 

[Craig Chase]

Dan - That makes perfect sense... and of course, pictures will be posted. And from what Ed had reported in his review of the STF-3 and PB1-ISD... I would likely go with the PB1-ISD ... it gives up some of the features of the VTF-3 ... variable tuning... etc...

But is likely a better overall performer.

And the best bang for the $$$$ in a finished vs. a DIY set up would be the way to go... true ?

 

[SVS-Ron]

Alex,

When you can come within a "country mile" of the the fit/finish/packaging and performance (yes, all four are key) of a PCi, let me know... you're hired.

I actually built the original engineering pre-production prototypes for the PC subs, and even having built dozens of subs, I think I can say with some authority there is no way I could do it myself today. And I've got access to more routers/clamps/saws and bits than most DIY fans.

With Neil's PCi, there is cosmetic detail, CNC machining and complex materials that only come from having sourced and built thousands of them... with components built by some pretty sophisticated processes. SVS's incidentally have to survive shipping, be very reliable, and easy to repair using simple hand tools too. Customers of real OEM products seem to demand these niceties DIY projects can ignore.

When you want to try flush fit amp mounts, beveled port caps with tolerances to .01", chamfered and Melamine laminated base plates, all backed up with a 7 day/week support structure... and do it all for "less than half"... well I suppose you wouldn't even want a job with SVS, hell you would be running your own company and kicking some collective SVS butt?

BTW, duplicating a PB1-ISD would indeed be easier given its more conventional form factor, but Neil here wasn't talking about a large box either. I'm sure you have your 1,000psi plural component spray line ready to duplicate the textured box finishes we offer though.

DIY is hardly comparable to the product you can buy turn-key at SVS. I have no doubt the raw performance of your sub and the self-satisfaction of making your own sub (remember, all the principles at SVS were doing it years ago) is excellent, even if your conduct vis a vis fellow audio enthusiasts is not.

Until your DIY project has durable good looks (though DIY can be well done cosmetically it adds still more time/cost to your project)... it can be shipped, and serviced, AND tested by accomplished reviewers to actually be "better"... I'm afraid "the joke" lies elsewhere.

Ron

 

[Mike SJ]

Go Ron! Go Ron! Go Ron! Go Ron! Go Ron! Go Ron! Go Ron!

[BTW are you hiring?]

 

[Dan Halchak]

Ron, I believe I need proof of everything you are saying....so a complete tour is required, as well as proof that all your products are to the quality you say...

So you can start shipping all your products to my house (Minus the PC+ 20-39 as I already have one - I'm not a greedy person here).

 

[SVS-Ron]

Dan,

OK, next time I need a ride to the factory because the rental car company stiffed me at the Pittsburgh airport (boy last time that happened it wasn't pretty).

Someday we do indeed hope to do tours ("SVS Factory Days"?) but there's still lots of refurbishment of the factory we want to do first. It's new to us but the place had been shuttered for a while.

When you see 15 foot stacks of PC-Ultra port caps (in all their CNC'd 1.5" Baltic Birch black laminant glory)... it does sort of bring a tear to your eye I must admit.

Someday not too far down the road I hope we'll be able to share a bit more with the public.

PS, Actually flying into Cleveland for our next Board of Director's meeting (no good flights to your town by the time I booked for this quarter). You are OK to pick me up there right?? 8^)

Ron

 

[Alex_P]

Ron,

Again, my first reply was tended as a joke but here we go again... Obviously you can't take a criticism well. Somehow I've noticed that when someone is saying negative/bad comments about SVS. You guys are so sensitive and touchy about it. As for how your SV Subs look/ how nice it is comparing to DIY one, it doesn't really concern me a bit. If I'm looking for how pretty the sub look, I wouldn't go into DIY route (Although I saw some very impressive finished on DIY subs). To me how a sub sounds is more important, not how pretty it looks. A decent look with a nice sound is more important than a nice pretty sub with a crappy sound. That's how I see it. I'm not saying SVS are crappy, everyone here knows that they are not. And I do respect the quality of SVSubs. The funny thing is how yout tended to lean toward about how good your subs look.

You have to put yourself in a customers' perspective regarding on what they think is best. Not all customers will agree w/ you. I don't really care how you make the sub. What kind of processes you have to go through to complete it. How you market your products is not my concern. As a customer, I only buy what I think is good for the money (not that you guys are not). I don't own any speakers company. I don't manufracture any sub products so I don't really care how hard working you and your employees have to work to maintain it. Obviously, you are not doing it just because it's your hobby. It's because you make money. And money thrive to you work harder and harder and so on... People do have hobby and they are willing to work for it cuz' it's fun. It's a sense of accomplishment after I've done it and love the quality of it. Again, to me DIY is the way to go if you're up for it... Enough said...

Regards,
Alex

P.S. I'm totally understanding why SVSers react/tick-off this way. Supposedly, SVS can't be touched

Lastly, I just wanna leave a couple phrases be4 I go...

"Great thoughts come from the heart" - Luc de Clapiers

"Animals are such agreeable friends...they ask no questions, they pass no criticisms" - George Eliot

"Some people miss the message because they are too busy checking the spelling."

 

[Alex_P]

Ronniel, I do apologize for hijacking/stiring your thread in a wrong direction. It was intended as a joke...

Regards,
Alex

 

[George_W_K]

Hey Ron

I am in Cleveland, and it just so happens I live close to the airport. Any chance I can get a tour?

And at this point, I suggest Ron and Alex shake hands. I don't think anyone intended to offend anyone here. Some intentions can't always be seen in print because we're going to read it our way in our heads. The discussion is interesting, though.

For me, I love the way my SVS sounds and looks. It shakes the hell out of my house when called for to do so, and it sounds great with my movies and music. I have definitely gotten my money's worth already and it's been a year and two days since I first ordered it. I am very happy and I know that Ronneil will be too.

As for the DIY route, at this point I don't see that being the route I'll ever take because of time, but I have nothing but respect for the guys who go this way. The sense of accomplishment and pride that comes with achieving the product you set out to do has got to be unrivaled, regardless of cost.

Anyway, Ronneil, when is your sub due to arrive? I'm excited to hear your opinion already!

 

[Ronneil Camara]

Alex_P,

I am not going to forgive you! hehehe. This is one thing nice in forum. You can say what you feel.

George,

My SVS sub is scheduled to arrive on Thursday, April 29. This is one day before my birthday, hehehe

SVS should have given me a discount, hehehe

I can't wait to hear it.

 

[SVS-Ron]

George,

If we can ever arrange factory tours, you won't have far to drive then! There are so many things being planned that it's hard to say just when we might be able to pull it off. Rest assured we know some folks would be interested to see and hear more about SVS, the company.

Neil,

Next year be sure to mention that when you get a twin for your arriving sub. The shop has a soft spot for birthdays, and more than one SVS t-shirt has found itself into a subwoofer box without my knowlege. ;^)

Ron

 

[Jason Brent]

I'm sorry, but I have to chime in.

Alex, your tone was not cool in your first couple of posts. If you were just joking, I certainly didn't feel that was the intent. It seemed very trollish.



Isn't this one of the points of DIY? To control the quality of parts/workmanship in the end product? No compromises? I think it is relevant the workmanship and parts a company puts into there product, and I think most customers do too. Those two factors have a direct relationship with the quality of the final product.

Sorry to rant on you, but I just didn't care for your attitude.