All amplifiers sound alike......... (1 Viewer)

[RobWil]

"The Dirty South" is right! Trouble maker!

Thanks, Dana...I appreciate the support.

 

[Chu Gai]

clean power comes to mind Dana.

 

[RichardHOS]

I haven't posted in this thread since the first page, so this is coming a little late to the party, but...

My two main problems with subjectivists' complaints about DBT's...

"Was the system 'expensive' enough to resolve the differences intended to test for?"

With the thousands upon thousands of ordinary people often with ordinary systems that state rather emphatically on forums such as this one that there are very obvious differences betwen amplifiers, it seems a big joke to argue that only golden eared audiophiles using the very best of equipment should be used for DBT's. If you can hear it quite obviously in your acoustically laughable living rooms, with mid-line components - and so can apparently the thousands of other subjectivists who agree - then it should be quite easy to choose subjects, environments, and equipment for which they could pass the DBT.

"Show me proof where a golden eared audiophile failed a controlled test."

Does it not seem just a bit odd that these so called golden ears systematically refuse to undergo controlled testing when challenged? Could it be because it is in their best interest to keep the genie in the bottle? Just possibly? This trump card is continually played, and it's no different than proclaiming that, since you refuse to play the game, you win and that's that.

 

[RobWil]

Huh?

 

[DanaA]

I'm willing to concede that this might be the case Chu. The Parasound is my first outboard power amp and, most definitely, it has more clean power than the Onkyo. Actually, while I used to be a subjectivist, I'm kind of on the fence now. In that I've never performed a DBT, I really don't know if I could tell the differences between two different amplifiers, outputing exacly the same juice to speakers and with identical front ends. In reality, in most cases, there might not be much difference between what a subjectivist and an objectivist choose to power their systems. The fact of the matter is that I'm extremely satisfied with my Parasound and really have little temptation to replace it with one of the more costly, more exotic brands of amplifiers.

I do know that I've learned a lot from this thread both from objectivists like yourself and from the subjectivists. Most of us share similar aims with regard to our audio systems and would probably like to get there as inexpensively as possible. At that point in time when I do want a new amp, I'm going to bring into the equation all that I learned by reading all your posts. I will continue to scrutinize all factors in each purchase (price, appearance, reliability, warranty, etc.). My focus will just shift a bit.

 

[DanaA]

By the way, I still think Rob's new addition of a power amp to his setup might be positively adding to the sonics of his system. The AudioSource very likely puts out more clean power than the Onkyo, which has a less than steller record of clearly indicating the actual power of its receivers.

 

[Chu Gai]

just might be. don't know about that particular amp but things like larger power supplies, capacitors, come to mind.
while i don't think specifications tell us everything, to simply ignore them and think they don't tell us anything whatsoever is outright foolish. what i would like to see, especially from companies that've got the resources for test instrumentation, are 'measurements' of amps into real-life loads.
if i've got questions about a particular unit, i'll find myself calling or emailing the manufacturer for further information and clarification. then its off to search for reliable reviews. sources like HTF are interesting, for me anyways, in understanding if there are particular issues with a given product.
seriously though Dana, it's well within your realm to conduct some sort of rigorous evaluation of items you may have laying around or can borrow. the world is full of anecdotal evidence and advertising takes full advantage of that.

 

[DanaA]

Let's just say that I'm objectivist curious.

 

[Michael R Price]

Rob,

Glad to hear you like the Audiosource, I have one too and it is definitely better than wasting $500 on a receiver. I don't think it liked my speakers though... with your setup, how loud does it go while staying completely clear and pleasant sounding?

 

[RobWil]

Hi Mike!,
Well....i haven't really pushed it to the absolute limit yet. I have found that near the top end of my listening levels the meters on the amp appear to be very close to the redline, so I'm assuming I'm running out of power. I don't know enough about it yet to be able to interpret that...do I not want it past the redline at all or is that a 'cushion'? Does it indicate clipping or anything?
Also...since you have the same amp I have a very newbie question regarding the amp, although I'm sure it works this way with all amps.
When I have it hooked to the pre-outs of my receiver I notice I have to turn the volume up all the way on the amp and then use the volume control on the receiver to adjust to the level I want....actually to about the same level as always for the CD input(around -20 to -15 relative). I'm assuming this is typical when connecting to a preamp w/ volume controls as when I received the amp the volume controls were turned fully clockwise.
When I connect the CD directly to the amp I notice I do not get anywhere close to all the way up to attain the same listening level. What up wit dat?
The CD doesn't sound as good when directly connected either.
I'm assuming it's because the amp is now kind of doing a pre-amp function and isn't as good at it?
I'm thinking about getting another identical amp so I'll have one per channel. I KNOW I won't have a power shortage then Besides, I may upgrade the speakers and need more eventually.
BTW...I'm currently driving a pair of Klipsch KG5.2's ...fairly large 8ohm floorstander's with sensitivity of 96db. Wouldn't you think 80wpc would be enough in a fairly small room?

BTW(2)- I appreciate the participation. I will gladly accept all comments, suggestions, criticism, belittlement etc. Thanks to all!

 

[Chu Gai]

hell you live in California with the 'honourable Gov. Davis' and summer coming...you can count on not having enough power! if you're lucky, the power will come from TX and that'll give the sound a nice warm, BBQ tang to it with a hit of high end sizzle from the jalapenos...all the more reason to get beer!

 

[RobWil]

LOL! He didn't get MY vote

all the more reason to get beer!

All my favorite sentences seem to have the words "more" and "beer" in them. Those two words just seem to be made for each other

 

[Michael R Price]

Rob,

When you connect the source directly to the amp, the amp's input sees the full output (usually around 2V peak) of the CD player, and its volume controls reduce the signal to your listening levels (the amp will deliver 80 watts from a 1.3V signal with it turned all the way up, I think). When connected through the receiver, the receiver reduces the signal power. It probably sounds better connected through the receiver because the CD player doesn't have a very strong output stage or DAC.

80 watts is plenty of power. You should be good for 105-110db peaks.

I asked about how loud it played, because with my speakers (4 ohm, 87db) the sound would slowly degrade as I turned it past the 4th notch on the volume control or around 85db continuous (CD player directly connected). The VU meters would be indicating 2-6 watts peak at that point. You could see the meter lights dim with the peaks in the music. I don't think you will have this problem.

 

[Chu Gai]

I 'think' the standard output for a CD is 2 volts. Certainly enough to drive the amp into clipping. Not sure what the DAC comment meant though.

 

[Michael R Price]

Chu, I meant the DAC or output stage of the player might be of low quality (as most, including mine, are). Not correctly being able to drive certain amplifier input stages is another problem with some CD players. That's probably why so many people claim their system sounds better with a preamp (and even more so with a good DAC).

CD player can't drive my Zen amp into clipping. And I don't have a preamp. This is bad. Thankfully, I also have a 400 watt amp with 1.2v input sensitivity and I'm building a preamp soon.

 

[Chu Gai]

sounds like a fun thing to do. lots to be said for the pride in making something oneself.