After all my auditioning.....Klipsch it is (1 Viewer)

[Dan Hine]

Manuel,

There is nothing soft or "refined" about real instruments, even a little flute will sound incredible loud in a small room.

Do you really find a french horn to be harsh? What exactly is your definition of harsh? Mine is simply something that is unpleasant to my ears. It does not have to be a high freq or low, just unpleasant. Perhaps distorted would be a good synonym for my view on harshness.

Of all my years playing in orchestral, brass or wind ensembles I've yet to hear an instrument, when played correctly, sound harsh. Granted, some instruments are more mellow than another, i.e. a french horn vs. trumpet. But when played by a professional I would indeed call them refined.

 

[Chris Tabor]

Well then by that statement Dan i've come to the conclusion that klipsch are NOT harsh.

 

[Chris Tsutsui]

Sorry Saurav.. I should review what I write a bit more before I type. What I mean by dynamic range is how Klipsch high frequencies tend to stand out with "more force" than other speakers. This sound called for my ears to get used to and "adapt".

I also said "audiophile speakers sound the way the director intended" which I regret.. Who am I to say how a speaker should sound for the public? hehe

What I should have specified is that I enjoy home theater that sounds "closer" to how the director intended while I believe music has more flexability with the way it sounds.

I think I like putting down Klipsch because I don't want people to read "just" the good reviews about them and buy them. One of my best friends bought a Klipsch Synergy HT after A/B comparing them to "muffled" speakers and he is now unhappy with them. He told me that he cannot watch movies at reference due to the highs hurting his ears. He also admits ear fatigue during a movie and the highs become annoying.

What happens is I fail to realize that there are also a lot of very happy Klipsch owners out there. So what I posted could just be a rare case of an unhappy Klipsch owner.

Would you guys believe me if I said that there was a time I loved Klipsch Reference? That was until I got into headphones and developed a different taste for sound.

 

[Dan Hine]

Chris Tabor,
I'm glad you feel that way. I sure you read my posts carefully and noticed that I never said anything negative about Klipsch. The closest I came was saying I've only liked horn speakers in good sized rooms (not the cramped rooms most B&M stores have). In fact, in the large room I have I would probably not have any issues with them. In fact I've considered auditioning some since with the larger room I just moved into I'm not achieving the same kind of volume I was before. So it's either more power or more efficient speakers. But I think a projector will come first.
Dan

 

[Matt Jesty]

Given that flat frequency response is only one part of the "good speaker" equation (and not too particularly hard to accomplish) then dynamic range is another and to me this is one area that a lot of speakers have trouble with, especially on less than ideal front-ends......

 

[Phil Mays]

I just wonder if speaker placement has anything to do with a persons "idea" of a certain speaker being harsh.
I know if I move my speakers around they sound dramatically different. I also know if I audition speakers at a store (I think all will agree that that is a poor envirenment to audition in) or in a persons home I will not move their speakers around to determine optimal "room dynamics", I simply take the sound for what it is.
Also the receiver could play a large role in how a speaker sounds. As stated before (in some post) this past Friday I heard my RF-7's (my hi-fi store is holding them for me:b ) on a Denon 4802 and to me they sounded "harsh". Previously they were driven by a top line Yamaha and they sounded "warm".
I worry little about that as I am using an Onkyo 797 as a pre/pro and two external amps. I also use a graphic equalizer to tone down or up whatever it is I like/do not like.
BTW, I got to listen (sorry, see) LOTR yesterday at reference level as my wife was out of town. Damn they sound great!!!
IMO the Reference series is much richer than the Legend series. I have never heard the La Scala's but would very much like to audtion them some time!!!
Chris Tabor, enjoy those speakers and always take with a grain of salt what others say. As you have read, not everyone will agree but will be more than happy to offer their "opinion". Until they buy you the speaker they want you to listen to then all else doesn't matter especially since your thread was "I decided on" and not "what's your opinion on".

 

[Paul Seyfarth]

"There is nothing soft or "refined" about real instruments, even a little flute will sound incredible loud in a small room. All those who can't stand the sound of Horn speakers for long periods of time will not stand the sound of a real instrument close to them! And no, Im not pretending to be rude."

Sure if you are trying to play for a large room, and you want the back of the room to hear then you are going to have to play loud. But while doing so you loose the refined sound of the insturments. In a normal living room, you wouldn't have too play that loud, and you could keep the refined sound. I haven't heard a well played insturment that sounds harsh. Unless they are playing too loud.

 

[Tom Brennan]

Well I'm a horn enthusiast and I think some Klipsches sound harsh or grating. I owned a couple of sets of Klipsch LaScalas and found the midrange rather bothersome. I traced this down to the overly directive midrange horn, the pattern is narrow, too narrow for the distance I was from the speakers, about 12 feet.
I replaced the mid horns (but not the mid drivers) with ElectroVoice SM-120A horns. These horns threw a much wider pattern of 120 degrees horizontal. The resulting wider spread threw more energy to the sides, improving imaging (to me) and lowered the amount of enery on axis eliminating the harshness. To me.
www.chicagohornspeakerclub.org

 

[Chris Tabor]

I just spent a few hours in an imax theater and there wonderful sound system was made up of all horns. Very impressive indeed.

 

[Nathan J]

Out of all the speakers I have heard, B&W by far is the best in my opinion.....although they were the $40k a pair set, they better sound good. Next to these would probably be Paradigm, or McIntosh. I have not heard the Klipsch enough to form an opinion about them.

 

[Larry B]

Horn owner/lovers:

The only two commercially available horn speakers with which I am familiar are Klipsch and Avantgarde. Are there others?

Thanks in advance.

Larry

 

[Jonas Pearson]

Having read many speaker debates on this forum, I've noticed that any time Klipsch is mentioned, the "bashing" starts and tends to get nasty and out of control. I don't see it when other speaker brands are discussed. I seem to sense an underlying feeling that the hardcore Klipsch bashers feel threatened. They seem to want to prove that their speakers are in some way superior. Why? If Klipsch products are inferior - let those who purchase them suffer in silence! For some reason Klipsch products seem to make many people who don't own them very insecure.

 

[Michael R Price]

Larry, while I'm not exactly a horn expert I think Bruce Edgar sells horn loaded home speakers called "Edgarhorn Titans."

Obviously, pro audio companies make a lot of horn speakers such as studio monitors, which you can use in the home. I've also heard of quite a few DIY projects using high-end JBL Pro drivers.

 

[Saurav]

Larry,
The Oris horns I mentioned are available as commercial products under the name of Moondog Audio. AFAIK, Moondog is a division of Welborns Labs.
You could also check out Pi speakers - www.pispeakers.com. They sell kits as well as pre-built speakers, but I think they're internet direct, so you won't be able to audition them at a dealer. Moth Audio sells a rear-loaded horn speaker, the Cicada. Of course, I don't know if most people here would consider rear-loaded horns to be 'horns'
If you want to go vintage, there's all the stuff from Altec and JBL that is still available. Some peopel say these are the best horn speakers of all. I think Tom Brennan might fall into that camp?

 

[John F. Palacio]

"They seem to want to prove that their speakers are in some way superior. Why?"

Everyone wants to be "right". Nobody wants to be wrong or, heaven forbid, make "the wrong" purchase.
Human nature.

Those that buy best sellers will point out that "how can all these people be wrong".
Others that purchase esoteric will claim that only a few know and can afford the best.

 

[John Gates]

This has been a very interesting thread to follow.
Klipsch has its own marketing niche, and it seems to have paid off well for them. EAch speaker design has certain goals in mind, and each is targeted to a specific customer segment. Klipsch designs emphasize dynamics and sensitivity, and there is a (rather large) crowd that values that in a speaker. Other speakers emphasize warmness of sound, imaging, off-axis response, depth, transparency, bass response, detail, size, placement ease, even style. Some speakers are very well-balanced, but not every consumer is looking for "well balanced." Others emphasize some aspects while accepting certain design limitations to serve their target market.
BOSE endures a lot of bashing here. I would personally never buy Bose because I'm not in their target market (I value sound quality and flat response over size, placement, and style issues). There are those, however, who value size above all, and for them, BOSE might be a good choice.
nOrh gets some bashing because of the unusual shape of their speakers (some love it, some hate it). I bought nOrh speakers because of the outstanding sound quality and very low price, and I appreciated the sonic benefits of the shape. There are those who would never buy a "non box" speaker because it's just too weird. That doesn't make them wrong; they're just not part of nOrh's target market, and I doubt nOrh would expect them to buy anyway. I was in the target market for these; they appealed to me on every level and met my needs.
Klipsch, IMO, has done an excellent job of identifying and serving their target market, and they are rewarded with sales. If you are not in their target market, that's understandable, but it doesn't mean that Klipsch has designed a bad speaker. While it may not be for me, it delivers good value to its target market.
The car analogy, I think, is a good one. It might be like people who drive Lincons criticizing those who bought Miatas because they only have two seats. Perhaps two seats is all that is needed, and having a removable top and wind in your hair is what driving is all about.
Enjoying my stuff,
John G

 

[Larry B]

Saurav:

Of course, I don't know if most people here would consider rear-loaded horns to be 'horns'

That explains it, it's a rear-loaded horn. What's a rear-loaded horn?

Larry

 

[Saurav]

A rear-loaded horn usually has the horn mouth behind the driver, which means the inside of the cabinet has extra panels which turn it into a horn.
Basically, a horn is any enclosure which increases in cross-section area as you traverse its length. A front-loaded horn has the horn in front of the driver, and this is what most people associate with the word 'horn'. Klipsch, Avantgarde etc. fall into this category. A rear-loaded horn has the horn behind the driver, the enclosure within the cabinet is sculpted to be narrow near the driver and widen/open out as you get further away from the driver. So, in operation it's still a horn, though it looks like a regular box speaker.
AFAIK, most rear-loaded horns use the horn loading to augment bass output. The drivers used are small and close to full-range in capacity, so they can handle the treble extension by themselves. They usually lack in bass extension, so instead of throwing in a crossover and a second bass driver, rear-loaded horns take the backwave of the driver (i.e. the sound wave going out behind the driver and into the enclosure) and amplify the bass in that. Obviously this needs to be done very carefully, it's probably as complex as pairing two drivers and designing a suitable crossover, if not more. Anyway, if it is done correctly with the right driver, the bass energy comes up to the same level as the treble energy (from the driver's front wave), and you get flatter frequency response down to a lower frequency without having to introduce a crossover network. You also get overall higher efficiency. The downside, of course, is the difficulty of designing a horn shape that does this well.
For instance, take a look at this picture:

Starting from the driver cutout, you can see how the backwave of the driver fires into a chamber that gradually increases in cross-section area as you go along the path. This is a 'folded horn', because the horn enclosure is bent in a couple of places in order to make it fit into a rectangular volume.
Or this one, a Beauhorn:

Another rear-loaded horn, with a much smoother shape to the horn itself. Notice the opening at the bottom, that's the actual horn mouth, where the back-wave exits from.
Hedlunds:

Again, the front of the driver fires into free air like a regular speaker, the backwave is horn loaded. The black part at the bottom front is the horn mouth.
Hope that makes more sense now

 

[Larry B]

Saurav:

Hope that makes more sense now

It certainly does! Thanks a 10^6.
Larry
P.S. Let's consolidate and continue this in the other place.

 

[Phil Mays]

John Gates & Saurav......excellent posts!