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about Dayton 12" Drivers

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by MichaelBAr, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. MichaelBAr

    MichaelBAr Well-Known Member

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  2. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    There is so little difference between them that you would barely be able to tell the difference in terms of frequency response. Here are the major differences:

    1) 12" Shielded DVC - Can be placed next to TV, 7mm Xmax, $39, 4 ohm
    2) 12" Quatro - No shielding, 10mm Xmax, $74, 4 ohm
    3) 12" SeriesII - No shielding, direct predecessor to the Quatro 12", 8mm Xmax, $77, 8 ohm


    Based on this information, by far the best value for your dollar is #1, the 12" shielded DVC. It offers fully 70% of the output capability of the 12" Quatro at just over half the price. You could also use it next to or under your TV with no worries. Of course, the driver with the most output capability and lowest distortion for a given SPL will be #2, the 12" Quatro, with it's 10mm Xmax. I am using the 15" Quatro, and it's quite excellent. #3 I can only recommend if you need an 8 ohm driver, otherwise it makes no sense compared to the less expensive Quatro.

    So, it just comes down to how much output you need. If you do need more output than the 12" DVC, and cabinet size is not a major concern, I would strongly suggest the 15" Quatro over the 12" Quatro. It will provide more than twice as much output compared to the 12" DVC at just over twice the price ($85). Compared to the 12" Quatro, the 15" will provide 60% more output capability for only 15% more money.


    Aaron Gilbert
     
  3. MichaelBAr

    MichaelBAr Well-Known Member

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    I was planning on placing it little less than 3 feet from my tv does that mean that I should get the shielded one? What is xmax? I've heard of it but never really knew what it meant
     
  4. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Xmax is the one way linear excursion of the woofer's cone/voice coil. This is how far the woofer cone can move without significant distortion. Once you start pushing the woofer beyond about Xmax + 15%, distortion increases greatly.

    Xmax is what you use to determine the maximum output capability of a woofer, along with cone area. Here's an example. Say you have two 12" woofers, and they both have the same cone area, and all other specifications are equal.

    (A) has an Xmax of 10mm, price is $50
    (B) has an Xmax of 20mm, price is $80

    You would need two of woofer A to equal the output capability of a single woofer B. That makes B the better deal because it's less than twice as expensive. Of course the reverse sometimes happens, too, where you are paying more money for a disproportionate output increase, but typically you are paying for better build quality, lower distortion, better looks, etc.

    As for distance to the TV, 3' is cutting it really close. It will depend on the size of the magnet in your woofer, where the woofer is located in the cabinet, how sensitive your TV is, and which side of the TV it's on. It also depends what kind of TV you have. Direct view TV's are more sensitive than rear projection, but the majority of rear projection TV's still use tubes, and they are at the bottom of the set, so could still be affected if the magnetic field is strong enough. Direct view sets are less sensitive from behind than they are from the sides, top, or bottom. I used to have a subwoofer that used dual 12" woofers, each with a 60oz magnet. It could not be oriented with the magnets closer than about 4' from the front of my television (31" Panasonic XF superflat) without color problems.


    Aaron Gilbert
     
  5. MichaelBAr

    MichaelBAr Well-Known Member

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    Well for my room I have a 27" Sharp (don't know model but not flat). Nothing special.
     
  6. Gerry S

    Gerry S Well-Known Member

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    Hi Michael:

    I just finished building my first sub, so I know that all of these terms that get thrown around can be a little confusing.

    I found this site very helpful in explaining the basics of how a subwoofer works. Among other things, it gives a good explanation of sealed and vented designs, as well as a good description of all the Thiele/Small parameters (like Fs, Vas, Xmax, etc.)

    diysubwoofers.org

    -Gerry
     
  7. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    If you can put the subwoofer a ways behind the TV, that 3' could possibly be enough for only a 27" set. If you have some spare woofers lying around, even car speakers or something, just experiment a little and see how close they can get. If you can't get a 6.5" or 8" woofer that close to your TV in the desired location without problems, it's sure not going to work for a 12" woofer with much larger magnet.

    I believe Parts Express does sell bare magnets though. You can add another magnet anywhere from 2/3 to the same size as the existing woofer magnet, behind it, to negate a great deal of the magnetic field. The trick is you need to put it on in the reverse polarity, which can be tricky because the woofers will want to push eachother apart. Typically epoxy is used for this.

    Aaron Gilbert
     
  8. MichaelBAr

    MichaelBAr Well-Known Member

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    about the xmax thing. Is that distotion take affect the louder you go. I'm not going to be going loud all the time
     
  9. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the louder you go, the more distortion you will have. Once the woofer cone starts to move farther than roughly Xmax + 15%, distortion increases dramatically. If you are always operating at excursion levels below Xmax, you may be hard pressed to hear any distortion at all.

    Aaron Gilbert
     
  10. MichaelBAr

    MichaelBAr Well-Known Member

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    For the shielded dvc driver, would it have to be real loud to notice? I mean real loud or kind of loud? I know its hard to explain, but I really don't turn my speakers up too loud because our dog, and parents and all.
     
  11. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Well-Known Member

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    One thing to keep in mind is that if you decide to use that $89 MCM amplifier, then the DVC 8" woofer will not be able to handle the full power. The Quattro woofer is only about $35 or so more expensive than the Quattro, and you are saving $3 more than that by getting the MCM amplifier instead of the Parts Express amplifier. And, of course, you get a full 100w of extra power.
     
  12. Aaron Gilbert

    Aaron Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    The amount of cone excursion, and hence distortion, depends not only one the apparent loudness, but also the frequency. You could overdrive the woofer at 15 Hz and you would probably not be able to hear the sound at all, but you would hear the extraneous noises the woofer makes as the suspension exceeds it's limits (or worse if the voice coil starts hitting the pole piece, making a popping noise).

    The difference in output level for a given amount of distortion between the 12" shielded DVC and 12" Quatro will not be great. Compare the 12" shielded DVC to the 15" Quatro though, that's another story entirely.


    Aaron Gilbert
     

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