A Sneak Peek at Zulu and Khartoum (1 Viewer)

[Dr Griffin]

If you look at the neck and left ( his right ) shoulder area you can see an example of a touch more detail that is blurred in the UK release, the lion insignia and thing on shoulder, look close, i'm viewing this at 60 inches and not on my laptop, i would imagine it's the same for the whole transfer and not just this screencap.

The UK is stretched a little. ? Or is the TT. ? Don't know, anyone care to comment.

Definitely a stretch or a squeeze going on by those caps. Not sure which is correct, though the more natural looking is the TT.

 

[JohnMor]

Side by side:

If you look at the neck and left ( his right ) shoulder area you can see an example of a touch more detail that is blurred in the UK release, the lion insignia and thing on shoulder, look close, i'm viewing this at 60 inches and not on my laptop, i would imagine it's the same for the whole transfer and not just this screencap.

The UK is stretched a little. ? Or is the TT. ? Don't know, anyone care to comment.

I definitely see somewhat better skin texture in the TT, as well as better material texture on the right shoulder and sleeve of his uniform. Even the shoulder braid is a bit sharper.

Now I really can't wait to get my delivery. I'm very anxious to finally see both of these films.

 

[Persianimmortal]

To be honest, both images look problematic in that screenshot comparison. The UK release looks to have the correct colors but perhaps a touch too much DNR, while the TT release looks too undersaturated, dark, and yellow/brownish in hue. Michael Caine's hat is supposed to be bright white in direct sunlight, not dirty beige.

I'm still happy with the UK release of Zulu, but thankfully now that the TT release offers both different visuals and improved sound, there's a choice for those who aren't satisfied with the UK version. Ideally, an entirely new version with correct audio and faultless visuals needs to be released at some stage.

 

[FoxyMulder]

To be honest, both images look problematic in that screenshot comparison. The UK release looks to have the correct colors but perhaps a touch too much DNR, while the TT release looks too undersaturated, dark, and yellow/brownish in hue. Michael Caine's hat is supposed to be bright white in direct sunlight, not dirty beige.

Michael Caine in the sixties had a pasty face, exactly how the TT cap above looks, that's more accurate to my eyes, also take into account the hat would get dirty quickly in the environment they were in and it would not be so white, the look of the UK release reminds me a little of On Her Majesty's Secret Service, by that i mean artifical contrast boosting to make the image pop more.

 

[Persianimmortal]

And the sky? We can assume that the sky takes on a dirty brown color because it got dirty from the environment? Smog?

 

[FoxyMulder]

And the sky? We can assume that the sky takes on a dirty brown color because it got dirty from the environment? Smog?

Well you know all those cars the Zulu warriors drove to the set each day must have made an impact, but seriously it just looks more natural and the sky looks a little darker but still blue and not dirty brown, it looks appropriate to the scene and the focus is on Caine not the background, i think you have to remember the TT release comes from an older master so won't be perfect, i don't think the UK release is perfect with anything but i know Caine had a pasty face in many a film from the sixties.

These film studio's can use the same tricks the television manufacturers use to draw people into buying them, they use dynamic mode with boosted contrast and boosted colours, that's what i see with the UK release of Zulu, it's a release that people bought based on the fact it "popped" because of the rich colours and deeper blacks, it's still an illusion, i don't like dynamic mode on my television and i don't like it when studio's use contrast boosting and artifical enhancements to make images "pop" more.

Anyways i have purchased the TT release of Zulu despite saying i wouldn't, i want to see and hear it for myself.

 

[Angelo Colombus]

The side by side pics of Michael Caine is exactly what i saw when i did my comparison so i guess we can see the movie in two diffrent ways. To me the TT version looks more natural with less vivid colors.

 

[Reed Grele]

Very interesting opinions, and screen shot comparisons.

I'll just say this: I was prepared to perform "surgery" in order to graft TT's audio track to the U.K.'s video. After watching the complete film (TT's transfer) I decided that the "surgery" was not necessary.

 

[Persianimmortal]

There are additional screenshots in the Zulu thread on that other forum that might further clarify the situation (click to enlarge to full size):

UK release:


TT release:



UK release:


TT release:



While I'm a TT supporter, it's hard to suggest that the colors and the overall brightness/tone are accurate on the TT release. It just looks too faded. The night-time shot also demonstrates some clear edge halos on the TT release (e.g. see the left shoulder in the last screenshot). Again, neither release appears to be completely correct, so it comes down to personal taste as to which is preferred.

 

[haineshisway]

If you look at the neck and left ( his right ) shoulder area you can see an example of a touch more detail that is blurred in the UK release, the lion insignia and thing on shoulder, look close, i'm viewing this at 60 inches and not on my laptop, i would imagine it's the same for the whole transfer and not just this screencap.

The UK is stretched a little. ? Or is the TT. ? Don't know, anyone care to comment.

A "touch" more detail. Hmmm. I don't happen to see it at all - for me they are extremely close in detail, but if it's only a "touch" then what have all these endless cries about slathered DNR been about? The detail on Mr. Caine's face is pretty much the same in each cap - there is no more "waxy" look to the Brit Blu - the TT is an older scan and darker, but the detail is very, very close and I said that in the first post in this thread, when Mr. Redman and I did not look at screen caps but at the two transfers side by side in motion.

But to each their own in terms of opinions, and we all know there are two people here who disagree violently with mine so it's always fun to read the responses So, the score for me is the UK Blu for the color and the TT Blu for the sound. Even steven.

 

[Anthony Neilson]

Bruce - I'd be interested to hear your take on TITUS, as it's causing a bit of a fuss too.

 

[Steen DK]

The detail on Mr. Caine's face is pretty much the same in each cap - there is no more "waxy" look to the Brit Blu

They're not remotely close. It's not the night and day difference like the two versions of Patton, but almost. The UK Zulu has Caine's face looking like plastic, something no amount of make-up could do.

 

[Persianimmortal]

They're not remotely close. It's not the night and day difference like the two versions of Patton, but almost. The UK Zulu has Caine's face looking like plastic, something no amount of make-up could do.

Nonsense. The detail is exactly the same. Any "waxiness" is simply the sweat sheen on Caine's face being much brighter due to the higher contrast of the UK release. The actual detailing in terms of freckles, stubble etc. appears almost identical. As Mr Kimmel says, if DNR had been applied sufficiently to turn faces to wax, it would also scrub all the other detail in the scene, such as the detailing on the insignias - which it hasn't - and which actually is pretty much the same as the TT release. Unless back in 2008 they used a miraculous DNR algorithm that only detects and scrubs facial detail.

As for Titus, well I looked over at the Titus thread on the other forum. All I can say is "Holy storm in a teacup Batman!". Looks like the kiddies over there were waiting for their chance to attack Twilight Time again, and the Titus release has given them that opportunity. It's sad to see so many people who are generally so utterly clueless, using hyperbolic phrases like "disgusted" regarding the release. Especially since most of the denizens of that forum will never pay more than $5 for a Blu-ray release anyway unless it comes in a fancy tin case or with a cardboard wrap-around or action figure. My condolences to Mr Redman and his team, and the guys over at SAE, for having to deal with these childish tantrums. As TT points out on their Facebook, Titus will likely never look better due to the circumstances.

 

[haineshisway]

They're not remotely close. It's not the night and day difference like the two versions of Patton, but almost. The UK Zulu has Caine's face looking like plastic, something no amount of make-up could do.

You see what you see and I see what I see and never the Mark Twain shall meet. Thus it has been, thus it will always be and we can just continue to agree to disagree. Not only is their almost no difference, IMO, there is more detail on the leather straps, including the dirt on them, on the UK Blu. The big difference in the caps is that one has very accurate color for a film of that era, and one is taken from a fading element.

 

[haineshisway]

Nonsense. The detail is exactly the same. Any "waxiness" is simply the sweat sheen on Caine's face being much brighter due to the higher contrast of the UK release. The actual detailing in terms of freckles, stubble etc. appears almost identical. As Mr Kimmel says, if DNR had been applied sufficiently to turn faces to wax, it would also scrub all the other detail in the scene, such as the detailing on the insignias - which it hasn't - and which actually is pretty much the same as the TT release. Unless back in 2008 they used a miraculous DNR algorithm that only detects and scrubs facial detail.

As for Titus, well I looked over at the Titus thread on the other forum. All I can say is "Holy storm in a teacup Batman!". Looks like the kiddies over there were waiting for their chance to attack Twilight Time again, and the Titus release has given them that opportunity. It's sad to see so many people who are generally so utterly clueless, using hyperbolic phrases like "disgusted" regarding the release. Especially since most of the denizens of that forum will never pay more than $5 for a Blu-ray release anyway unless it comes in a fancy tin case or with a cardboard wrap-around or action figure. My condolences to Mr Redman and his team, and the guys over at SAE, for having to deal with these childish tantrums. As TT points out on their Facebook, Titus will likely never look better due to the circumstances.

I'm glad you see what I see - there are times I think I've lost my mind. I mean, Mr. Redman and I sat here and compared these transfers VERY carefully - not caps, mind you, but the transfers, and the detail is almost identical in every single shot. As you mention, you cannot have heavy DNR for only the face, and the detail in the other parts of those frames is the same, just as you point out - in fact, there's bit more in the UK and as I point out in the post above this, it's really obvious to see in the leather straps on Mr. Caine's outfit.

As to Titus, those people are horrid, really. You'd think it was the end of the world. I have the disc here and since I've never seen the film, I'll give it a spin tomorrow night. What's really funny about it is that most of the people doing the biggest and loudest complaining are people form whom this movie is their first Twilight Time purchase. They each say it's their favorite movie of all time. I think that says it all, don't you? Whatever one thinks of Titus, for it to best all other films is really something. And the ones who say it's from a faded element - the transfer was made a year after the film came out - it is not possible for an element to fade in a year. Oh, well. Makes you wonder if they actually ever saw their favorite movie ever outside of cable showings.

 

[FoxyMulder]

There are additional screenshots in the Zulu thread on that other forum that might further clarify the situation (click to enlarge to full size):

UK release:


TT release:



While I'm a TT supporter, it's hard to suggest that the colors and the overall brightness/tone are accurate on the TT release. It just looks too faded. The night-time shot also demonstrates some clear edge halos on the TT release.

The edge halo is present on the UK release too but it's softer in appearance due to all the dust busting passes and application of DNR, i will agree the top scenes colour does look a little faded, note also how Stanley Baker appears either slightly squished in the TT or slightly longer body in the UK, i don't know which is correct but i know MGM screwed up The Big Country and In The Heat Of The Night is said to have some issues.

If the fading was consistent, it doesn't look like it is since the night shot looks the same as the UK release, but if it was consistent it would be relatively easy if you knew what you were doing to dial it in with a televisions or projectors CMS, colour management system, and make it look much better, can't do that if it's not consistent though.

A "touch" more detail. Hmmm. I don't happen to see it at all - for me they are extremely close in detail, but if it's only a "touch" then what have all these endless cries about slathered DNR been about?

I think there is film texture on the TT release and that makes a big difference to perceived detail if you are projecting things, shame it also looks like some EE is present to spoil things and thus i'm hesitant to now say real detail in case they applied the EE to the whole transfer, i may end up having to admit the colours are superior on some scenes of the UK version, but not all as the night scene above shows, i think Caine looks much better with his usual pasty face and i think some scenes a little oversaturated on the UK one but the lack of film texture is a huge strike against it and i need to watch the TT edition fully.

DNR is not only on faces in the UK Zulu release it is clearly present on everything in the frame, i know we won't agree on that but it's nice we are staying civil this time around, i hope that continues.

 

[theonemacduff]

As to Titus, those people are horrid, really. You'd think it was the end of the world. I have the disc here and since I've never seen the film, I'll give it a spin tomorrow night. What's really funny about it is that most of the people doing the biggest and loudest complaining are people form whom this movie is their first Twilight Time purchase. They each say it's their favorite movie of all time. I think that says it all, don't you? Whatever one thinks of Titus, for it to best all other films is really something. And the ones who say it's from a faded element - the transfer was made a year after the film came out - it is not possible for an element to fade in a year. Oh, well. Makes you wonder if they actually ever saw their favorite movie ever outside of cable showings.

If you've never seen Titus, you are in for a treat, whether or not the transfer is as good / bad as different people claim. I guarantee that within minutes of the opening -- providing you have a taste for the theatrical -- the film will grab you, and carry you away. Saw this in the theatre when it came out, and have watched it numerous times on DVD since. Julie Taynor's work is somewhat uneven, and even Titus has an unneccessary prologue, but it is truly an astonishing rendition of Shakespeare.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

Both versions are not the real thing, as far as I'm concerned. The UK is degrained to some extent and colours/contrast are exaggerated giving it a somewhat digital, unfilmlike look. The US looks dated concerning colours but less processed. Neither have the grain and fine detail a new 4K scan could provide in 1080p.

 

[Steen DK]

Nonsense. The detail is exactly the same. Any "waxiness" is simply the sweat sheen on Caine's face being much brighter due to the higher contrast of the UK release. The actual detailing in terms of freckles, stubble etc. appears almost identical. As Mr Kimmel says, if DNR had been applied sufficiently to turn faces to wax, it would also scrub all the other detail in the scene, such as the detailing on the insignias - which it hasn't - and which actually is pretty much the same as the TT release. Unless back in 2008 they used a miraculous DNR algorithm that only detects and scrubs facial detail.

I deliberately used the word texture instead of detail because that is what the DNR removes. Caine's face, jacket, and hat all have texture in the picture from the TT, something that is sorely lacking on the UK disc. No amount of sweat could make a human face look like that.

 

[JoHud]

There was no glitch on my review copy. I watched the whole thing when I was reviewing the disc for this site.

it looks like my aging blu-ray player gets a few hiccups when running the new MGM (and TT?) blu-rays. I just ran that trailer and it ran fine today. Thankfully those hiccups are rare at the moment, but I'm considering buying a new machine later in the year.