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A humble request to our HD-DVD brethren (1 Viewer)

Walter Kittel

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Thomas, I could not disagree more with the artificial dichotomy you are creating between presentation and content. Every film should be presented in the best possible manner regardless of genre, content, critical opinion, etc. I know that The Searchers and Singin' In The Rain are going to look splendid on HD DVD, and I suspect that depending upon the source material for the transfers, the second group of titles you've listed could look splendid in High Definition. ( I certainly would love to see Criterion release The Third Man and The Lady Vanishes in HD. )

- Walter.
 

Herb Kane

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Guilty as charged Jim. However, I can assure you, that if I reference an HD disc in this part of the forum or in any of my reviews, it is only out of genuine interest or curiosity as to what the difference will be compared to the SD counterpart. Or, curious as to when that release may take place.

Never is my intent to be condescending. As someone with a fair size collection, I have zero interest in replacing it, however like many have expressed here, my buying strategies have changed slightly, particularly with new release titles – however, I’ll continue to buy classic titles like a fiend until I’m convinced that a). I can see a significant improvement across the board and b). support in equal fashion shifts to the new format (be it HD or BD) in terms of numbers being released.

Like most have stated, I think SD will be around for a long long time. HD has not only proven to me that there can be significant improvements to certain titles but it has also reaffirmed how good SD was in the first place, when done right.

Herb.
 

Joe Karlosi

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I'm really glad to hear this, as I recall a time where you wouldn't accept movies if they were only viewable on VHS and a DVD wasn't available. And you're right - the movie is the main thing. It just gets so silly when all people are worrying about is the video/audio quality at the expense of just enjoying and discussing the film.

Last night I was at a friend's house and we were watching his DVD of RIO BRAVO on his DVD projector (unfortunately I can't count it among my watched "track your films" because people were talking so much that we couldn't hear it and I don't really consider it evaluated). The picture quality on the SD was flawless, and there was no way any of the 6 of us there could visualize it looking any better, nor did it need to look any better. I admit I haven't seen a HD disc yet, but I can't imagine it's as major a leap as it was from VHS or LD to SDVD. Does the film turn into 3-D or something?
 

Joe Karlosi

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Oh, I'll bet there was. I was an early adopter for DVD in 1997 and I joined the voices proclaiming proudly: "DVD is here to stay! Laserdisc and tape, No Way!" :D

But I still think there was a much more significant difference, both in the leap in visual quality from LD/VHS to SDVD as well as the bells and whistles and conveniences (no flipping, no rewinding).

I know the techno-fans are wild about this, but in the longterm it will be the mass audience who will decide. I just don't see HD discs anywhere and in nearly 2 months it doesn't have appeared to make much of a dent.
 

Manus

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Thank God I'm not alone !

We techies are never really happy until the NEXT big thing arrives ! I think Michael's right about 'enjoying' movies. I have some movies that were never released on vhs. Every warner boxset released these days seems to contain new-to-dvd movies.Yet its only taken how long to sort out Blade Runner ??

If the studios weren't dissing everyone with another format war and I could sell my dvd collection safe in the knowledge that the movies would all be replaceable in HD I'd be right there with you all but as is , the studios cant even decide which of the formats to support themselves !

As for Mr.George Thx and his non-anamorphic releases of the films that gave him his wealth , it just proves that even when a 'line in the sand' quality threshold is established not even those who should know better will always stick to it.

And one other thing that often gets overlooked is Region Coding. Why are the 70+ year old films of the Warner gangsters collection region coded now and going to be region coded again if they ever surface in HD ?? Its nonsense :angry:
SD hasn't been around long enough to be perfected,and it just gets a bit annoying when people go on about the HD formats as if they are (both) perfect already !

Anyway , enjoy it all , and I'll probably catch up with you guys later :)

~M~
 

Chuck Mayer

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Interesting topic. I was in the Kingdom of Heaven thread, but I wasn't bothered by the comment (why release a SD version when HD is out?). I found it ignorant of the market realism. I imagine *IF* an HD format takes over in the next few years that HD will become like LD. But SD-DVD's are the new VHS...it's going to take quite a bit to root them out. So they'll continue to be SD-DVD's for the next several YEARS. HD owners will win when new releases become day and date.

I don't mind the comments. I plan on upgrading fairly soon, but only when there is undeniable software appeal to justify the player price. I look forward to HD, but I don't feel I am in the dark.

But pretending there is conflict between SD and HD/BR is ridiculous. HD doesn't bring in 1% of 1% of 1% of home sales.
 

Ronald Epstein

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No conflicts between SD and HD/BR.

Some industry experts feel that HD/BR will become a niche
format just like laserdiscs.

Most members of this board including myself aren't jumping
into either format anytime soon.

Most of the general public probably won't even consider the
new formats for years to come.

Personally, I am very proud (and a bit envious) there are those
of you who own a HD-DVD unit and are talking about the format
on this forum. Doing so serves a great purpose to all of us here.

It's a shame if any of the HD owners are posting anything on this
forum that looks down upon SD owners. If that sort of attitude
continues here, we'll certainly address it.

We are already addressing those who are arguing in the HD
areas about which format is better. We aren't tolerating the
badgering between the two camps and we hope members will
continue to report incidents to us.
 

Jim_K

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Well thanks for all of the responses. As Michael said I didn't start this thread to "bash" HD or to start a SD vs. HD war, which would be silly (I think we all know the benefits and drawbacks to each).

I certainly didn't call for any "censorship" to the powers that be. Just a direct appeal to the early adopters to tone it down a bit in the SD area.

Believe me I understand the general mindset of where the early adopters are coming from - Buying into a brand new format, wanting it to succeed, trying to convert the unconverted so it does succeed, etc.

If as Steve Schaffer said that the HD software area is inundated with flame-war threads (I wouldn't know) and the HD crowd have to come to this area to find out about HD releases that’s really unfortunate though it clears up why there are so many HD inquiries in the SD area.

Just to clear things up the "will wait for HD", "is an HD version coming?", etc. type comments don't bother me per se. The thread fart Anti-SD type comments I usually blow off, but I'd hate to see it start to grow out of control and have every new release thread in the Software area deteriorate into a dick wagging contest which wouldn't appeal to me in the least.

Hopefully I'm wrong.
 

Robert Harris

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For the record, and for those who question the viability of older films in the HD format, it comes down to balance.

While new productions tend to look quite film-like in color levels, resolution, and an overall glossy property, older productions tend to shine in shadow detail and proper grain structure.

Having been involved in the transfer of Man Who Knew Too Much from 35mm nitrate original to HiDef, I can tell you that a high definition transfer of an older classic film is no less impressive than contemporary fair, but in different ways.

The problem with older productions will be that second quality elements will look more obviously problematic in HD than in SD. The same situation rings true in all past technologies.

A dupe 35mm print or quality 16mm element, used as a transfer source, could look surprisingly good on VHS. No longer.

This has already forced the studios to re-examine their older masters, upgrade film elements, and do an overall re-source to meet the new technological needs.

The bottom line at the moment seems to be that older films which may not survive as quality film, may have a much narrower appeal if, or when, taken to HD.

RAH
 

Robert Crawford

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Jim,
When you run across such posts, please, report them so that the HTF Staff can deal with them. Thanks.





Crawdaddy
 

richardWI

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Why even bother making this thread now that hd-dvd is out? kidding!

I agree with everything the original poster said on this thread. The post in the Kingdom of Heaven was a perfect example of how annoying some HD DVD "evangelists" can be.

Why can't people just discuss a movie without turning every thread into a format discussion? That's the bottom line, it becomes a distraction even if the release is mighty fine (and the extended Kingdom of Heaven is FAR from chopped liver in my opinion, btw) and is out of proportion when one considers how few producers and consumers have actually jumped on the HD DVD bandwagon.

My pet peeve:

I don't see why some reviews in this forum include the phrase "in standard definition" in the title. This isn't the high def forum, so it's assumed that all the reviews here are of SD discs unless otherwise noted. It gets annoying reading redundant information in the titles of threads everytime I come here.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Something else I'd like to add....

We can sit here and debate which format is better until
we run out of space to do so.

Betamax was a better format than VHS, but consumers
quickly embraced the latter.

Marketing is going to be a huge factor in which format gains
the upper hand.

My opinion is that we are going to endure two formats for
a long, long time.
 

PatrickMD

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Mr. Harris,

Just to clarify a little bit about your last post... re: what older films would/wouldn't benefit from HD...

Would I be correct in saying that older films that might have been, for lack of a better phrase, better taken care of over the years ("Gone with the Wind," "The Wizard of Oz," "Singin' in the Rain," the films you've restored, etc) would probably benefit from HD, whereas some other films (just random titles here - the "Fox Film Noir" series, "Freaks," "Sorry Wrong Number," "The Awful Truth," etc) probably wouldn't?

And by "benefit" let's just say benefit enough to warrant another $20 purchase on a title you might already own.

I know I'm not being clear on the distinction I personally see between the older films that might and might not benefit from HD, but perhaps you can see what I'm getting at...
 

RickER

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I posted in another thread that i didnt think my Criterion "Fiend Without A Face" would look much better than it did on my 50" Tosh than it does now. It is what it is. How i wish my Marx Brothers DVDs looked pristine, but they dont. How many generations are they removed from the original elements. Once again, it is what it is. I have high standards with PQ, but i accept a film made for $100,000 or so 50 to 75 years ago might not look as cool as Lord of the Rings. Oh, and i agree with the original post as well. I dont even read the Blue Ray is better than HD, or Best Buy is souring on HD, or whatever threads anymore. They dont seem to have much real information, but do have a lot of guessing and posturing. However, sometimes, guessing and posturing can be fun. Life will still go on...i hope.
 

Michael Elliott

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It would seem this would be the bottom line. This is something I'm always curious about and one of the main reasons I'm staying away from HD. Warner's DVD of FREAKS looks downright horrid if you're comparing it to just about ANY dvd out there. However, if you know that film's history then you'll be calling it one of the greatest transfers ever.

To another point, FREAKS (and thousands of other older films AND let's not get into the silent era) will always look rather poor due to the various cuts it has suffered over the years. There will always be scratches, cuts, bad edits and so on. Won't HD bring these problems and make them more noticeable? The SD (or HD) technology, IMO, depends a lot on what you're watching this stuff on. Since getting a projector a few months ago, the great transfers out there are all the more better on a 110 inch screen. However, those minor cuts, scratches and so on are also a lot more noticeable.

From what I've read, HD will bring these problems out just as more as the format will bring out a great transfer. The bottom line is that this is the reason I'm not going goo goo on this format. (not to mention that not a single film has been released that I'd upgrade to)
 

Thomas T

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"The bottom line at the moment seems to be that older films which may not survive as quality film, may have a much narrower appeal if, or when, taken to HD"

Thank you Mr. Harris for confirming what I suspect. While I'm certainly not contending that all "classic" films from the 1900s to say, the 1960s, will look inferior in any HD format, realistically they will never look like Spider Man or Batman Begins nor I suspect (hey, I'm generalizing here so no flames please) do most HD fanboys have any interest in say, Gunga Din or Pillow Talk in any format much less HD.
 

RoyM

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I am certainly of the mind that (as Ronald Epstein mentioned in his post) HD/BR will eventually settle into being a niche format, or certainly so for the next several years - a "laser disc" to S-DVD's "VHS" if you will. I just don't see it being embraced by the mass consumer market until at least such a time as HD broadcasting and HD monitors are the standard rather than the exception. John Q. Public just doesn't care that much to upgrade at this point, nevermind the inherent problems with the lack of a single standard. HD is going to be the province of videophiles only for the foreseeable near future.

But just to muddy the waters a bit more, does anyone else worry that with the studios eagerness to start the HD and BR market rolling, they are going to begin to neglect production and marketing of heretofore unreleased titles on S-DVD? I am really concerned that this might be the case, given that each studio only has so much capital/marketing to go around for putting out new product. This could especially affect the eventual availability of those unreleased cult or classic films (read: niche market items in themselves) many of us are awaiting just to be released in any format.

Not that I want to start the standard DVD enthusiasts to hating HD-DVD/BR or anything...
 

Glenn Overholt

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You sort of have that right. I dived into DVD's in '97, and have over 1000 now. 2 years ago I was buying 10 - 15 a month, but this year I have picked up about 5 - not a month, but for the last 5 months.
Certain titles will probably never come out because the studios know that they won't make that much money. IMO, they are basically out of titles to release, and so, it is time to start over. When the HD players get down to about $200. or so, SD players will vanish from the shelves, along with new SD releases.
Of course, there are still some titles in the works, but this explains why so many TV titles are coming out now. All of the DVD factories can only produce so much. If a few of those are converted over to HD, that leaves even fewer SD titles. As the HD titles increase (in speed), the SD titles will decrease. Eventually, new movies will come out only in HD or BR's.

Glenn
 

Robert Crawford

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I'm not so sure about that. This format war and the confusion around it could cause these new formats to be nothing, but a niche market. It's really too soon to make any predictions on how things are going to shake out either way. The dvd mass market is too much of a heavy revenue stream for the studios to cutoff for a very long time, if at all.




Crawdaddy
 

Steve Christou

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Yes, eventually movies will be coming out only in Hi-Def, but not this decade and possibly not the next either. Videos have lasted more than a quarter of a century and are still on sale, there's no reason why SD-DVD, the fastest growing home entertainment format ever, can't do the same. Like Robert says, HD-DVD may end up a niche format, similar to LD. How many ordinary people out there are willing to start collecting their favorite films yet again? On another format? And PQ not that blindingly different than what they are seeing now on their 28inch tellys.
 

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