A Few Words About A few words about... Kingdom of Heaven - The Director's Cut (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

Running time.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

And? HD DVD would require two discs, but unless 50 GB BD is a total failure [which I doubt], there would be no problem. 50 GB at 20 Mbps is five and a half hours!

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Almost a week later, and the film still lingers. That's usually a sign of it worming it's way into my heart

Just a monumental epic, in all respects. Made it through most of the bonus features. Excellent stuff, as usual. Still have the commentaries to go.

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

Well, yes and no -- shooting all that making-of stuff is comparatively cheap, and I don't doubt that while Scott always wanted to release such a set I'm not sure that Fox would have been on-board if the DVD had tanked as badly as the theatrical run.

I picked the set up yesterday but haven't watched the feature yet. I did peek at the first half of the documentary (I wanted to know what happened to Tripoli!) and was fascinated by the lengths Scott Free went to in order to basically trick Fox into making a much longer film than they wanted to. For example, when Fox expressed concerns about a 180 page script that would indicate a three hour movie, they went through and eliminated all the "parentheticals" -- (he sighs) or (angrily) -- shaving 20 pages off of the screenplay without eliminating a single scene or having any impact at all on the actual running time.

But even better, when Fox suggested the removal of the "boy" subplot before filming, Scott Free prepared two versions of the screenplay -- "Kingdom of Heaven w/ boy" and "Kingdom of Heaven w/o boy" (as they are clearly and hilariously marked) -- and only showed the second version to Fox, then managed to shoehorn in all the parts needed for the "boy" version -- costume, cast, shooting days -- in the time and money designated for the "without boy" version.

What this also led to was the easy ability to remove the boy from the film, which is how the theatrical cut ended up. I haven't watched the segment on post-production yet, and am not going to until I see the long version of the film, hopefully tonight.

I'm notorious for preferring the short versions of many films, particularly The Abyss (which, despite the absurd ending, is a far more subtle film and gets its message across just as well and without preaching, I think), so I'm really curious to discover my own reaction to this one.

 

[ErichH]

I've yet to look at extras, but this REAL cut of the film is indeed a fine bit of work. Ridley continues to offer quality and remains high on my `Great Director' list.

I remember passing the first DVD (rental), and thinking Ridley's cut was almost a thumb of the nose to the studio, with it's obvious skips in the story or scene shortcut.

It really did feel like skipped chapters on the DVD. Not Now

E

 

[Robert Harris]

And. There seems to be a question as to precisely what running time will conveniently fit on a BD disc.

Word on the street has it that Kingdom of Heaven, at least at present, might be a no go.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

I've heard rumours about early replication problems. Has anyone heard anything besides rumours? DiscoVision couldn't press even a decent 54000 frame CAV side at first, to say nothing of a 1-hour CLV side, but those problems were worked out in less than two years after launch. Optical disc manufacturing is pretty mature now, so I don't guess that whatever difficulty there may be right now with BD will be permanent — or even protracted. I'd definitely say "don't expect it right away", but I have my doubts about "don't expect it for a long time". Not to say that it might not be released for a long time ; I just suspect that it will be practical to release it considerably before Fox gets around to actually releasing it.

 

[Ray H]

I'm thinking this was planned.

The first DVD was released on late October. I'm sure they started work on the documentaries, etc. before that considering the excellent and extensive material that was produced for this set.

I watched the Director's Cut for the first time today. As someone who thought the theatrical cut was a pretty good movie, I can't say it was a radical difference to me. Basically added complexity and character moments, but it makes the movie a much richer experience.

 

[Mark_TS]

Just finished viewing this Masterwork, and was stunned-it could have gone on for another 50 mins as far as I'm concerned-and Scott hit the nail on the head-neither Christian nor Muslim can point fingers-as theyve both are/have been guilty of killing in the "name of their God" as a guaranteed ticket to Heaven/Paradise for many thousands of years. It just goes back and forth.

And Eva Green is just delightful. Was sad to see Liam Neeson outed so early in the film.

THIS version should have been the Theatrical cut...with an even longer Directors cut-im sure he could have made it longer in telling such an epic story without "padding"

 

[Robert Harris]

As I recall the original problem with Discovision software was that they were replicated in a less than perfectly clean environment.

Constant detritus found bonded into the discs.

In the early days, it would not be unusual to purchase four or five sets of a film, and go through each disc, attempting to find both sides playable in an attempt to create a set.

RAH

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

Ah, the good old days.

I've watched the first half up to the intermission, before my wife and I found ourselves getting sleepy. Part two will have to wait until this evening.

So far I've liked more than I've disliked -- the priest being Balian's brother makes his actions slightly more 'sensible', though I had no problem with him just being an unscrupulous priest in the theatrical cut. But actually, that (and maybe a moment here or there) I would have left out in favor of getting the story rolling a little more quickly. It doesn't bother me that it's there, but I don't think it adds as much as, for example, the small moments between Balian and Sibylla, which are wonderful. I especially like the ominous moment right before the intermission -- was that in the theatrical cut? I don't recall. I'd check, but the TC DVD is at my grandparents' house.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

"Less than perfectly clean" is right. It was a furniture factory for heaven's sake! I watched "If I Had a Million" not too long back, and I'll swear the disc had a bit of fallen leaf pressed into it.

Other than the contamination, though, they had difficulty with the mastering process. At first DiscoVision could hardly get CLV to work at all ; if they had, the prices would have been lower and the yields higher, because fewer good sides would have been needed to make a set. There were problems with eccentricity, horizontal runout, time stability, and the like, all of which tended to be exaggerated toward the outer circumference, with the result that they couldn't reliably even use the less-technically-challenging CAV mode to its full 30 minute potential.

Nonetheless, I have on my shelf a decent number of LaserDiscs which run out to minute 60.01 [CLV] or frame 54000 [CAV].

But I'm not trying to start a conversation about that.

 

[Jack _Webster]

I'd have to disagree there. That whole opening segment (most definitely, including the sections that show the Priest as Balian's brother) is what changes the film most for me. Because, now, the opening of the film is no longer plot driven - it is character driven. The restored opening allows us to sympathize with Balian in a way that we never had a chance to in the Theatrical cut, and makes the film much more human than ever. For me, this section is even more important than the sublot with Sybilla's son.

 

[todd stone]

let's not forget the set of LEGEND. Beautiful forests

 

[Carlo_M]

Me too. Why? Because I heard about the upcoming EE/DC before the first DVD came out. I'm a notorious release-week purchaser, and the only reason I didn't buy KOH on release week was that I read online (whether here, The Bits or DVD File--the only 3 sources of DVD news I go to on the web) that an extended edition version, put together by Charlie D. was coming out.

 

[RickER]

Christopher your so right about the LD plant. I read alot about LD in my day. Seem to recall reading you could see the wood particals in the air in the "clean" room where they made the LDs. As you say it was an old saw mill of some kind. I read the discs would de-laminate before they could even be shipped. LD had a 75% fail rate back in the late 70s. As we know now it is closer to 100% as i dont think ANY DiscoVision discs can be played now.

I am so on the fence with this release. I loved Gladiator, and am a HUGE Ridley Scott fan. Seems like it should be a safe blind purchase, huh?

 

[ChristopherDAC]

Well, the DiscoVisions which actually left the factory, and didn't succumb to delamination, or laser-rot, or warp, are pretty much OK and stable now. I'd guess it's 2-5% of all their production, though, depending how you count — which is a shame because there were some things they released which haven't seen the light of day since. The early mortality rate was high, but the survivors ought to be OK indefinitely : all the ones which were going to go bad probably went bad within about 5 or 10 years. You come across them in used bookstores, or in libraries, or wherever. The A/V quality is not as good as later mastering practices provided, but they're usable.

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

Yes and no. I hate Gladiator. A lot. I'm mixed on Ridley Scott in general. I love Kingdom of Heaven.

Like all Scott films, it looks gorgeous and is designed down to the grains of sand. For that alone, it's worth seeing.

My wife made an interesting comment today -- that the added dialogue for The Hospitaler and the old bishop in Balian's village made it more clear that the film wasn't ragging on Christianity -- not that she felt it was, in its original form, just that it clearly draws a line between "people who believe in Christ" and "people who do morally questionable things in the name of the church".

The funny thing is that neither of us are religious in the slightest.

 

[Max Leung]

I really enjoyed this movie. I'm glad I held out on watching the theatrical cut (either in the theater or at home).

The PQ is very nicely done too.

 

[Max Leung]

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