A Few Words About A few words about...™ Vertigo -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[WilliamMcK]

I think it had something to do with making room for non-English language dubs necessary for wider European distribution. Not to rub salt in the wound, but the mono track included on the U.S. release is a vast improvement over the mono track in the Velvet Box DVD set. In fact, it's such a big improvement I wouldn't want to even swear it's actually the original mix (though one tell-tale foley effect that's still missing in the *new* 5.1, is there on the new mono... so if I had to guess, I'd say that it *is* probably the original... just cleaned up and sounding quite robust). However, the new 5.1 is excellent!

 

[Oblivion138]

I think it had something to do with making room for non-English language dubs necessary for wider European distribution. Not to rub salt in the wound, but the mono track included on the U.S. release is a vast improvement over the mono track in the Velvet Box DVD set. In fact, it's such a big improvement I wouldn't want to even swear it's actually the original mix (though one tell-tale foley effect that's still missing in the *new* 5.1, is there on the new mono... so if I had to guess, I'd say that it *is* probably the original... just cleaned up and sounding quite robust). However, the new 5.1 is excellent!

So why did Psycho (with French, German, Italian, Spanish, and Japanese dubs) not only get the original mono track, but a lossless mono track in the UK? Versus the lossy track on the US disc, which did not include the Alfred Hitchcock Presents episode that's on the UK release, or the German, Italian, Spanish, or Japanese dubs, and therefore should've had ample room.

 

[Cineman]

I think it had something to do with making room for non-English language dubs necessary for wider European distribution. Not to rub salt in the wound, but the mono track included on the U.S. release is a vast improvement over the mono track in the Velvet Box DVD set. In fact, it's such a big improvement I wouldn't want to even swear it's actually the original mix (though one tell-tale foley effect that's still missing in the *new* 5.1, is there on the new mono... so if I had to guess, I'd say that it *is* probably the original... just cleaned up and sounding quite robust). However, the new 5.1 is excellent!

What is the tell-tale foley effect in the original but missing in the new 5.1? I love these kinds of details . I'm very fond of the original mono, too, but was also very pleased with this latest treatment of the restored version.

 

[Kevin M]

I believe I read somewhere that it was a missing couch spring squeak when Stewart sat down in Midge's apartment..........I Think.

 

[WilliamMcK]

Yes... that's it!

 

[Robert Harris]

The one thing that I can relate regarding foreign m & e mags is that every one is different.

RAH

 

[Nelson Au]

I finally had time last night to commit to viewing the Vertigo blu ray. It's a movie that is one of my favorites and i waited for a good time to see it. It was the main film in this set that I had the most anticipation for. This and Rear Window. I had already seen Rear Window back on Halloween night and i thought that looked great.
I've been collecting the Hitchcock's all the way back to the laserdisc days, so I have the very first 1980's laserdisc which as I recall looked very dark. Even then, my very first viewing of Vertigo all the way through, i was sucked into the story. Then the 1996 Harris/Katz remastered DTS laserdisc. Then the Collectors Editions DVD discs and then the Velvet Box Masterpiece DVD Collection and now the blu ray set.
From a non-professonal not in the film business, and after reading Mr. Harris first post here, I thought it is the best representation of the film I have ever seen. Everything popped out at me. The fine textures of the shaded lines in the Paramount Logo at the beginning I never noticed before to the ending shots when Kim Novak's hair piece lace is tugging at her temple skin and causing it to wrinkle a little. Amazing.
I found at times the flesh tones on Stewart and Novak to look a little red. I never seen the magazines on Scottie's coffee table with such clarity. I never realized Scottie's apartment building is painted in such a green color! Even the sound effects, that I thought sounded boosted in the 1996 new foley edition, sound great here. I don't know the mono track that well, so perhaps I need to re-watch it in mono!
Then there is a final section of the film as they go back to San Juan Bautista and up the tower stairs. As Mr. Harris has commented, the black levels there were very noticeable to me. I had avoided reading Mr. Harris's comments before seeing the disc. It wasn't distracting enough for me to be taken out of the emotional section of that act. But I did notice it.
As many times as I see this movie, I always leave a gap of time between viewings. I like to rediscover. And this time, the quality of the film on blu ray more then in recent times drew me into the story. I never realized as much how angry Scottie was at the end. It didn't register that way before. Before it felt more like he figured it out and then he was forcing Madeline to the tower to make her confess. But this time, I saw how tormented he was and how much he really was in love with the fake Madeline and how after realizing the truth, he wasn't able to find his way back to loving Judy. Poor Scottie, I think he got over his fear of heights and must have rejoined the Police and possibly married Midge. But he's obviously scared for life.
It was funny to see the extra feature, Obsessed with Vertigo from 1996 on this disc. For a feature talking about the restoration and it having those really bad looking clips!
Mr. Harris, I am curious what you meant by the comment from your first post here about knowing the mindset of the blu ray collecting public? I gather you simply meant that they are never going to realize what a properly restored film will look like or care because they have their HDTV's and expect a certain level of flash and flair? Perhaps more attuned and used to what modern films look like and expect that from an older movie?
Well, what a great experience to see Vertigo again in high def. I know it's not as perfect as one could hope from the perspective of a proper film restoration. but it was very very watchable. And 99.9% of the viewing public outside of the Home Theater hobby will really be able to enjoy it.

 

[Robert Harris]

I finally had time last night to commit to viewing the Vertigo blu ray. It's a movie that is one of my favorites and i waited for a good time to see it. It was the main film in this set that I had the most anticipation for. This and Rear Window. I had already seen Rear Window back on Halloween night and i thought that looked great.
I've been collecting the Hitchcock's all the way back to the laserdisc days, so I have the very first 1980's laserdisc which as I recall looked very dark. Even then, my very first viewing of Vertigo all the way through, i was sucked into the story. Then the 1996 Harris/Katz remastered DTS laserdisc. Then the Collectors Editions DVD discs and then the Velvet Box Masterpiece DVD Collection and now the blu ray set.
From a non-professonal not in the film business, and after reading Mr. Harris first post here, I thought it is the best representation of the film I have ever seen. Everything popped out at me. The fine textures of the shaded lines in the Paramount Logo at the beginning I never noticed before to the ending shots when Kim Novak's hair piece lace is tugging at her temple skin and causing it to wrinkle a little. Amazing.
I found at times the flesh tones on Stewart and Novak to look a little red. I never seen the magazines on Scottie's coffee table with such clarity. I never realized Scottie's apartment building is painted in such a green color! Even the sound effects, that I thought sounded boosted in the 1996 new foley edition, sound great here. I don't know the mono track that well, so perhaps I need to re-watch it in mono!
Then there is a final section of the film as they go back to San Juan Bautista and up the tower stairs. As Mr. Harris has commented, the black levels there were very noticeable to me. I had avoided reading Mr. Harris's comments before seeing the disc. It wasn't distracting enough for me to be taken out of the emotional section of that act. But I did notice it.
As many times as I see this movie, I always leave a gap of time between viewings. I like to rediscover. And this time, the quality of the film on blu ray more then in recent times drew me into the story. I never realized as much how angry Scottie was at the end. It didn't register that way before. Before it felt more like he figured it out and then he was forcing Madeline to the tower to make her confess. But this time, I saw how tormented he was and how much he really was in love with the fake Madeline and how after realizing the truth, he wasn't able to find his way back to loving Judy. Poor Scottie, I think he got over his fear of heights and must have rejoined the Police and possibly married Midge. But he's obviously scared for life.
It was funny to see the extra feature, Obsessed with Vertigo from 1996 on this disc. For a feature talking about the restoration and it having those really bad looking clips!
Mr. Harris, I am curious what you meant by the comment from your first post here about knowing the mindset of the blu ray collecting public? I gather you simply meant that they are never going to realize what a properly restored film will look like or care because they have their HDTV's and expect a certain level of flash and flair? Perhaps more attuned and used to what modern films look like and expect that from an older movie?
Well, what a great experience to see Vertigo again in high def. I know it's not as perfect as one could hope from the perspective of a proper film restoration. but it was very very watchable. And 99.9% of the viewing public outside of the Home Theater hobby will really be able to enjoy it.

Nelson,
I tend to view things differently.
Back in 1996, we were working within the analogue work, with all of its problems.
As of 2006 or thereabouts, we had the ability to make things perfect.
Universal has not done so with Vertigo. They've gone for what, under their budgetary limitations, they consider to be "good enough."
When the innocent home theater fan, who in most cases, is unable to discern what they're seeing, is given "good enough," that quality unfortunately translates as "correct."
When some people view the Blu-ray, they also get side-tracked by resolution, which while pretty, is totally irrelevant to color, black levels, density and very, very obvious negative dye fade.
With all of the effort that Universal put into this project, and with all of the dollars expended, there was no desire for what is called restoration. Pretty images, even those that may appear to be "correct," are not.
The entire opening and closing sequences should have been considered below anyone's standards, but are thrown in the face of the public, and like the rest of this extraordinary film, will be presumed to be what the filmmakers intended.
They are not.
Unfortunately, what could have been a perfect representation of a perfect film, fails. In the end, the creation is a highly resolved, generally pretty, but not the Vertigo that it should, and could have been.
From my perspective, we return to the public, which viewing this Blu-ray, may get the incorrect impression, that what they see is what was seen in 1958. And they will never be the wiser.
RAH

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks for the reply Mr. Harris.
I figured there had to also be a sense on your part of sending out the best Universal could do within their budgetary resources, and that the best they could do was short of perfect. And that the part that probably hurts the most is that the general viewing public is not the wiser. Yet you know it could be that much better.
Though unlikely, let's hope these films gets another pass through the restoration process.
Happy Christmas everyone.

 

[DSmith1984]

RAH, I just watched the restoration documentary on the Vertigo disc and it's nice to actually have a face to connect with all this wonderful work you've done over the years. I must say though, when I saw you for the first time, my immediate thought was that you moderately resembled former AWA wrestler Verne Gagne. Have you ever heard that before or am I slightly delusional in seeing the similarities?

 

RAH, I just watched the restoration documentary on the Vertigo disc and it's nice to actually have a face to connect with all this wonderful work you've done over the years. I must say though, when I saw you for the first time, my immediate thought was that you highly resembled former AWA wrestler Verne Gagne. Have you ever heard that before or am I slightly delusional in seeing the similarities?

Robert's sleeper hold is better.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by DSmith1984 /t/324701/a-few-words-about-vertigo-in-blu-ray/60#post_4017763
RAH, I just watched the restoration documentary on the Vertigo disc and it's nice to actually have a face to connect with all this wonderful work you've done over the years. I must say though, when I saw you for the first time, my immediate thought was that you moderately resembled former AWA wrestler Verne Gagne. Have you ever heard that before or am I slightly delusional in seeing the similarities?

Professional wrestling is nothing. The regimen toward prepping for restoration work can be excruciating. Many months of working out.

RAH

 

[DSmith1984]

Professional wrestling is nothing.  The regimen toward prepping for restoration work can be excruciating.  Many months of working out.
RAH

So are you ready to take down Andre The Giant in front of 93,000 fans?

 

[Cineman]

I hear Mr. Harris originally asked for a Wrestoration credit for cross-promotion purposes, but the studio just wouldn't play along.

 

[Brianruns10]

I want to see Robert Harris in the ring with Rick Schmidlin. Kevin Brownlow could ref. It could be called "Fightrate in the Nitrate."
No holds will be brared, no punches pulled, and the O-neg won't be in cans, it'll be in IV bags...this Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY!!!!

 

[DSmith1984]

I want to see Robert Harris in the ring with Rick Schmidlin. Kevin Brownlow could ref. It could be called "Fightrate in the Nitrate."
No holds will be brared, no punches pulled, and the O-neg won't be in cans, it'll be in IV bags...this Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY!!!!

Wow, a Jan Gabriel reference. Excellent touch.
I personally would like to see Robert Harris against whoever at Universal constantly makes the decision to cut corners on their blu-rays. It could be our version of the Austin/McMahon feud from the late 90's. I could hear Jim Ross yelling now at the top of his lungs "RAH! RAH! RAH!"
RAH: "If you want see me restore this decrepit print and kick this cheapskate executive's ass, gimme a hell yeah!"
HTF community: "Hell Yeah!!!"

 

[Brianruns10]

The ultimate grudge match would no doubt be between RAH and whoever was in charge of storing that roadshow copy of "The Alamo"

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Brianruns10 /t/324701/a-few-words-about-vertigo-in-blu-ray/60#post_4018200
I want to see Robert Harris in the ring with Rick Schmidlin. Kevin Brownlow could ref. It could be called "Fightrate in the Nitrate."
No holds will be brared, no punches pulled, and the O-neg won't be in cans, it'll be in IV bags...this Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY!!!!

Afraid not. Mr. Schmidlin and I would be on the same side.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by DSmith1984 /t/324701/a-few-words-about-vertigo-in-blu-ray/60#post_4018243
Wow, a Jan Gabriel reference. Excellent touch.
I personally would like to see Robert Harris against whoever at Universal constantly makes the decision to cut corners on their blu-rays. It could be our version of the Austin/McMahon feud from the late 90's. I could hear Jim Ross yelling now at the top of his lungs "RAH! RAH! RAH!"
RAH: "If you want see me restore this decrepit print and kick this cheapskate executive's ass, gimme a hell yeah!"
HTF community: "Hell Yeah!!!"

Sorry. Once again, I have the greatest respect for the execs behind the Universal Blu-rays. They do what they can.

No match there.

RAH

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Brianruns10 /t/324701/a-few-words-about-vertigo-in-blu-ray/60#post_4018277
The ultimate grudge match would no doubt be between RAH and whoever was in charge of storing that roadshow copy of "The Alamo"

That might be the one. Add to the other team, those who went about rejuvenating the print, and damaging it in transfer. For the record, the actual company doing the storing is a fine company. It was the selection of where it went that's the problem.

Not a big wrestling fan.

I would, however, commit to being involved in a Chopped type of contest.

Six archivists. Twelve weeks. $250,000 to the favorite charity of the winner.

Scanned!

RAH