A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Sound of Music -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Vern Dias]

Joe, not sure what display / projector you are using to view this disc, but I respectfully suggest that you may want to consider getting your video system calibrated.... Sounds very much like the color balance is way off, particularly on the whites, with a serious color balance shift towards blue in evidence.

Vern

 

[Gregg Loewen]

I am SOOOO hot happy with the picture quality on this new release. They have changed all of the backgrounds to blue whenever possible.
Maria sings in front of blue mountains, instead of green and fluffy light blue clouds instead of white.

All of the foreground sutff has gone reddish, including skin tones, hair that used to be blond is also red etc.
Maria enteres intothe von trapp villa for the first time. The walls which should be a light grayish to white are now also reddish too.
Yuck !! It is sad to write this, as I normally like the work of Shawn Belston at Fox. He has saved many a fox film, including some that I thought would never look good again - Fromthe Terrace, Kiss Them for Me, and many more.

You will never know this for certain on any display unless it is properly color corrected. www.lionav.com to find a calibrator in your area (shameless plug ;-) )

RAH, thanks, I will be definitely be buying this title.

Gregg

 

[Joe Caps]

Guys I dont have this color balance problem with other films, And I also watched this on a freinds properlycalibrated high def plasma tv and with guests of his to watch this. they all had the same complaints that i did. Ergo, I ts not just me.

 

everyone in the Maria sequence was a professional singer, including Portia Nelson. The only actress to have a vocal replacement was Peggy Wood.

Can anyone verify this -- Quite a number of years ago, I had heard that there was trouble filming the Climb Every Mountain sequence (Mother Superior Peggy Wood singing to Maria). Seems that Ms. Wood, then in her late 70s, had a very hard time with the lip syncing. It took many takes to get it passable, but the hardest for her was matching to the opening first words of the song. Once the first few words were sung (was this Marni Nixon as well?), she would be able to get in sync, but she couldn't get the first word. They tried everything, putting in an audible click count leading up to the vocal, but nothing worked. Finally, Wise came up with the solution -- he had the actress face away from the camera so that she wouldn't have to time the first word to match perfectly with the playback. She was able to synchronize once the vocal track had progressed a few words, then she was able to turn to the camera, already in good lip-sync.

Looking at that sequence as it appeared in the film, it does seem a bit forced and unnatural to have her start the song with her back to the camera, but that was the only way they could get it to work.

Again, this was a story floating around and I was never able to find it verified anywhere by a firm source.

 

[RobertSiegel]

I have seen The Sound of Music in theaters more than 100 times (and probably another 200 on home video on VHS, starting with the Magnetic Video VHS which was the first, through all the laserdiscs and the 2 dvds). Unfortunately, I was never able to see the film in 70mm because in 1965 I was 3 years old, and in 1973 for the re-release, I was 11 and my home town is 220 miles north of Minneapolis so there was no 70mm houses north of there, and I did not know about the 1978 70mm showing at the Cooper (Cinerama) theater in Minneapolis. So I was stuck with one of our 2 hometown theaters, which was 35mm with 4 track mag stereo. However, the Heights Theater in Minneapolis is scheduling a 70mm run for early next year. I know the owners, and am trying to find out more info on the print they are getting, and I will be there for that.

I have always taken posts that are written by Joe Caps seriously, he knows his movies and their source material. He did tremendous work on some fine laserdiscs and is very familiar with source elements. However I can't contribute because I have never seen a 70mm print. While this version is the clearest and has the most detail of any version I have seen, there is a short on the extras about the video restoration where Schawn Belston says "we had do decide how green do we make the grass" meaning that it is obvious they made choices which might have resulted in changes from the colors that were there before. And in the short about the sound restoration, it appears they remixed the entire movie from separate music/voice tracks. It really does not bother me that much that the slap of the apron is gone, though it should be there if they were trying their best to duplicate the original roadshow.

As for the mentioned lack of high-end compared to the DVD edition, I have decided to go to my storage unit and get my laserdisc player and my VHS machine and spend a day looking at every version of the movie starting with the original Magnetic Video version on VHS to the 3 laserdisc versions to the DVD's and then the Blu-ray.... I have saved every one of them in prestine condition. If anything it will just be a fun day to compare but I am interested to see the changes as they remastered it over the years.

This is the first time I have seen the film with some of the color tones on this Blu-ray (sky colors, hair colors, ect). Would have been nice if Robert Wise was still around to chime in or have had a part in the transfer. But I must say this is the most detailed version I have ever seen, and I am hearing instruments in the music that I did not hear as clearly before. But I can't compare it to any 70mm showing (which I've never seen).

That said, my only real big complaint is that if they were able to fix that music stem, which they show in the sound restoration short, that they didn't provide a new isolated score in DTS MA.

 

[RobertSiegel]

Originally Posted by Frank Angel

Can anyone verify this -- Quite a number of years ago, I had heard that there was trouble filming the Climb Every Mountain sequence (Mother Superior Peggy Wood singing to Maria). Seems that Ms. Wood, then in her late 70s, had a very hard time with the lip syncing. It took many takes to get it passable, but the hardest for her was matching to the opening first words of the song. Once the first few words were sung (was this Marni Nixon as well?), she would be able to get in sync, but she couldn't get the first word. They tried everything, putting in an audible click count leading up to the vocal, but nothing worked. Finally, Wise came up with the solution -- he had the actress face away from the camera so that she wouldn't have to time the first word to match perfectly with the playback. She was able to synchronize once the vocal track had progressed a few words, then she was able to turn to the camera, already in good lip-sync.

Looking at that sequence as it appeared in the film, it does seem a bit forced and unnatural to have her start the song with her back to the camera, but that was the only way they could get it to work.

Again, this was a story floating around and I was never able to find it verified anywhere by a firm source.

I have never heard that story. What I did hear (and read) over the years is that Wise did that number the way he did because he thought it would be very tacky to have her sing it facing Maria, he was not happy with that number in the first place.... thus the use of shadows and her facing away from Maria. This I've read in many different books and articles.

 

[Joe Caps]

That Is Marjoe MacKay singing for miss Wood

 

[GMpasqua]

Some where I read he had her face away because in the stage version he detested the way it was staged with the singer coming to center stage and belting it out to the audience

there are probably many reasons why it was done- the lip sync seems the most credible - the "Something Good" song was filmed in near darkness because the actors kept laughing during the song (just like the audience last time I saw the film)

I did get to see a 70MM print with Robert Wise a few years ago and the Blu-ray looks very much like that print (exactly like it - no, but pretty darn close) of course this was a new print - no telling how much different it looked from a 70Mm print from 1965)

the print was screened at both The Egyptian Theater and the Motion Picture Academy

 

[Brian W.]

Originally Posted by Joe Caps
I
All of the foreground sutff has gone reddish, including skin tones

I agree with you, Joe. While I think much of the new remaster looks magnificent, there are moments, as I said in another thread, when people look positively jaundiced. The scene where Maria returns is a good example, especially after the captain comes out and is standing on the steps in the back yard talking to her. Those are not realistic flesh tones. Their faces are sort of a melon-y orange, for goodness sake. And don't tell me I need to calibrate my system, because all my other Blu-Rays look wonderful.

And, like Joe, a friend was watching with me and thought the color was very weird on the whole thing, especially the scene I just mentioned.

 

[GMpasqua]

The colors are definately much darker on the blu-ray, the whole image looks darker - except where the whites are - there they are too bright.

But honestly the disc looks pretty damn good! and all these complaints are really quite minor

 

[MatthewA]

The contrast is indeed higher than before.

Greg, was that screening part of the 75 Years of Oscar series? I was also there, and I was in awe of that print (I also saw My Fair Lady in 70mm the week before). I saw it again in 70mm at the Widescreen Weekend in England in 2005, and I was less impressed with that print. After act one, I commented on the softness and the projectionists noticed it, too, as did much of the audience. I think there were two prints made around that time.

I have heard that there was a minor disagreement between Robert Wise and the studio back in 1965 about how the film was supposed to look; Fox wanted it naturalistic, but Wise wanted a slightly warm, golden tone to it. Unfortunately, all the head technical people are gone and every surviving original and 1973 re-release print has faded (though there were some dye-transfer Technicolor prints made).

As for the sound, to my semi-semi-professional ears I hear more high-ends than I did with either of the DVDs.

I will have to concur with those who say that the whole is greater than the sum parts, and this is still better than what we've gotten before, and as good as we're ever going to get.

 

[GMpasqua]

Originally Posted by MatthewA
The contrast is indeed higher than before.

Greg, was that screening part of the 75 Years of Oscar series? I was also there, and I was in awe of that print (I also saw My Fair Lady in 70mm the week before). I saw it again in 70mm at the Widescreen Weekend in England in 2005, and I was less impressed with that print. After act one, I commented on the softness and the projectionists noticed it, too, as did much of the audience. I think there were two prints made around that time.

I have heard that there was a minor disagreement between Robert Wise and the studio back in 1965 about how the film was supposed to look; Fox wanted it naturalistic, but Wise wanted a slightly warm, golden tone to it. Unfortunately, all the head technical people are gone and every surviving original and 1973 re-release print has faded (though there were some dye-transfer Technicolor prints made).

As for the sound, to my semi-semi-professional ears I hear more high-ends than I did with either of the DVDs.

I will have to concur with those who say that the whole is greater than the sum parts, and this is still better than what we've gotten before, and as good as we're ever going to get.

Yes it was - I was also at the "My Fair Lady" screening - it too looked maginificent!

Around the same time the 70mm "Sound of Music" also played at the Egpytian - Robert Wise spoke after the screening - he didn't mention anything about the look of the print so I would guess he was happy with it. (He also attended a screening of "West Side Story" a few years earlier)

The Sound of Music blu-ray looks pretty darn good! Check out "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" - it looks even better.

by the way I also thought I heard the hand slap - though it was very much muted

 

[RobertSiegel]

Originally Posted by Joe Caps

That Is Marjoe MacKay singing for miss Wood

Does anyone know where I can obtain a picture of Marjoe MacKay? I am doing a piece on this film and can't find any photo anywhere.

 

[MatthewA]

Originally Posted by GMpasqua

Yes it was - I was also at the "My Fair Lady" screening - it too looked maginificent!

Around the same time the 70mm "Sound of Music" also played at the Egpytian - Robert Wise spoke after the screening - he didn't mention anything about the look of the print so I would guess he was happy with it. (He also attended a screening of "West Side Story" a few years earlier)

The Sound of Music blu-ray looks pretty darn good! Check out "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" - it looks even better.

by the way I also thought I heard the hand slap - though it was very much muted

Chitty is definitely on my want list, as are White Christmas, Bridge on the River Kwai, Toy Story 3 and some other titles that came out this week.

Meanwhile, I love the "Pigs' Feet and Cheese" song from the Pratt Family Singers sketch.

 

[Matt Hough]

Originally Posted by RobertSiegel
Does anyone know where I can obtain a picture of Marjoe MacKay? I am doing a piece on this film and can't find any photo anywhere.

I'm not sure if you're being facetious or not. Joe mistyped her name, and as informed about the film as I know you are, you must know her name was Margery MacKay, the wife of rehearsal pianist Harper MacKay.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Originally Posted by MatthewA
I have heard that there was a minor disagreement between Robert Wise and the studio back in 1965 about how the film was supposed to look; Fox wanted it naturalistic, but Wise wanted a slightly warm, golden tone to it. Unfortunately, all the head technical people are gone and every surviving original and 1973 re-release print has faded (though there were some dye-transfer Technicolor prints made).

According to the restoration featurette, shortly before his death Wise screened a 70 mm print made during a previous restoration and approved of it. It was this print they used as a color reference for the 4k restoration used for the Blu-Ray. While the color timing on the Blu-Ray might not be exactly Wise's intent, we can assume that they are a very close approximation of it.

A lot of us love the "golden" look of the Blu-Ray, others prefer the white balanced and more naturalistic color timing of the previous home video releases, and still others don't agree that the current Blu-Ray is a "golden" hue at all, but some other abomination. I can understand the second group, particularly those who don't like the brownish flesh tones that the color timing sometimes leaves, even if I personally like it. But I don't see what Joe and others here are seeing at all.

 

[GMpasqua]

the golden hues from the last DVD was never in any screening of SoM that I ever saw

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by RobertSiegel

That said, my only real big complaint is that if they were able to fix that music stem, which they show in the sound restoration short, that they didn't provide a new isolated score in DTS MA.

Most likely a rights issue.

Doug

 

[MatthewA]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

Most likely a rights issue.

Doug

I wouldn't think it was anything to do with the rights, as the underscore is all over the menus, and this is the third appearance of the M+E track on disc. I think the more likely reason is that a second DTS-MA track would compromise the quality of the main feature because of the film's length. At least we know it exists.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
According to the restoration featurette, shortly before his death Wise screened a 70 mm print made during a previous restoration and approved of it. It was this print they used as a color reference for the 4k restoration used for the Blu-Ray. While the color timing on the Blu-Ray might not be exactly Wise's intent, we can assume that they are a very close approximation of it.

A lot of us love the "golden" look of the Blu-Ray, others prefer the white balanced and more naturalistic color timing of the previous home video releases, and still others don't agree that the current Blu-Ray is a "golden" hue at all, but some other abomination. I can understand the second group, particularly those who don't like the brownish flesh tones that the color timing sometimes leaves, even if I personally like it. But I don't see what Joe and others here are seeing at all.

Yeah, I also didn't really see what Joe describes on my LED-based DLP RPTV -- unless his dismay w/ what might be subtle (and hidden behind the strong golden hues) to most of us is simply coming across like over-the-top hyperbole, which such comments can often seem.

If anything, when I originally saw the sample images from one of the PR video sequences on the net, I thought the images looked too green, instead of golden. But that was clearly an issue w/ the overall web presentation on the poor, essentially uncalibrated LCD on my work PC since I don't see the same green bias from the BD image on my main display.

Anyhoo...

_Man_