What's new

A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Big Country -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

FoxyMulder

映画ファン
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
5,385
Location
Scotland
Real Name
Malcolm
nealg said:
Sorry, but the image can't be "fixed" if it is derived from the blu-ray. The distortion can be corrected, but there's no way to restore the missing picture information on the sides. And then the aspect ratio couldn't be corrected without shaving some off the top and bottom.

Again, the TCM print has no distortion, more picture information on the sides, and is in the proper aspect ratio. You can see my IMPERFECT COMPARISON HERE.
The fix doesn't shave anything off the top and bottom, it's a software fix to correct the distortion, it's not masking anything, yes i think there is a bit missing at the edges of the frame but it's 2.25:1 and the image in your comparison shows that not much info is missing, as imperfect a fix it may be it's currently the only way i can view this great film in high definition.

Here's the example i made a while back, nothing is lost top and bottom or at the sides, obviously the television transmission has some more info but you will find a lot of blu ray releases with 2K masters avoid downconversion artifacts and instead just cut a little off the sides and top and bottom to make their 1920x1080 image. Roll your mouse on and off the image below.

*I think that works out that a 2.40:1 movie would be 2048x858 on a 2K master and instead of downscaling for the blu ray they crop and it becomes roughly 1920x804, this is why movies like this one and Alien have some unimportant image info missing.

http://www.darkrealmfox.com/bigcountry_comparison.html

*Minus black bar area.
 

AnthonyClarke

Senior HTF Member
Deceased Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
2,767
Location
Woodend Victoria Australia
Real Name
Anthony
So it's a case of win some, lose some. I'd rather lose a bit of side info and have correct ratio than have the present awful stretched image.
Best thing would be for the production company to admit their mistake and issue a corrected Blu ray! But I suspect they just don't care, or they would have said something about it bynow.
 

Persianimmortal

Screenwriter
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
1,376
Location
Canberra, Australia
Real Name
Koroush Ghazi
They would only do that if a lot of people noticed - and as you know by now Anthony, even when it's pointed out to them, most don't seem to notice or care. So not much will be done about it until perhaps the 4K release (and maybe not even then!).
 

Rick Thompson

Screenwriter
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,865
AnthonyClarke said:
So it's a case of win some, lose some. I'd rather lose a bit of side info and have correct ratio than have the present awful stretched image.

Best thing would be for the production company to admit their mistake and issue a corrected Blu ray! But I suspect they just don't care, or they would have said something about it bynow.

I'm not interested in any new Blu unless they fix the copper wash in the credits. It should be a strong copper, not the wimpy almost pastel version it is now. Of course, it is better than the DVD, which had it in black-and-white. The VHS version, by the way, was correct.
 

Allansfirebird

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jul 14, 2012
Messages
613
Real Name
Sean
Rick Thompson said:
I'm not interested in any new Blu unless they fix the copper wash in the credits. It should be a strong copper, not the wimpy almost pastel version it is now. Of course, it is better than the DVD, which had it in black-and-white. The VHS version, by the way, was correct.

It would be more of a priority for them to fix the odd optical stretch in the current transfer first, and then worry about the tinting of the opening credits. That distracts me far more.
 

AnthonyClarke

Senior HTF Member
Deceased Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
2,767
Location
Woodend Victoria Australia
Real Name
Anthony
Yes, the awful stretched distortion is the worst aspect of this disc by far.

It's interesting that in his original post in this thread, Robert Harris assumed that a corrected disc would be issued once this received general release rather than just via Walmart.

That has never happened so obviously the production company simply does not care that they've issued a shoddy product which does such disservice to such a great movie.
 

Robert Harris

Archivist
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 8, 1999
Messages
18,310
Real Name
Robert Harris
AnthonyClarke said:
Yes, the awful stretched distortion is the worst aspect of this disc by far.
It's interesting that in his original post in this thread, Robert Harris assumed that a corrected disc would be issued once this received general release rather than just via Walmart.
That has never happened so obviously the production company simply does not care that they've issued a shoddy product which does such disservice to such a great movie.
Doubtful that owner will amend. After seeing the overall quality of that big box, highly publicized, 50th anniversary set of all twenty+ films they released, their concern for said quality is not in question.
 

deepscan

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
240
Real Name
JP
I also messaged KL (actually MisterLime) about whether the new presentation will be either stereo or mono. If indeed the rumored 70mm stereo print cannot be found, it is now technically possible to create (or, in this case, recreate) true stereo from mono to replicate the original premiere presentation. In any case, the rumored print has already become as legendary as the mythical uncut print to the 1954 "A Star Is Born".
 

PMF

Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 6, 2015
Messages
6,003
Real Name
Philip
Stumbled upon these two recent posts, concerning "The Big Country" and then I went running to the HTF Kino threads.
BIG news, indeed. Instant purchase, if fixed.
 
Last edited:

Robert Harris

Archivist
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 8, 1999
Messages
18,310
Real Name
Robert Harris
I also messaged KL (actually MisterLime) about whether the new presentation will be either stereo or mono. If indeed the rumored 70mm stereo print cannot be found, it is now technically possible to create (or, in this case, recreate) true stereo from mono to replicate the original premiere presentation. In any case, the rumored print has already become as legendary as the mythical uncut print to the 1954 "A Star Is Born".

I asked Mr. Peck about stereo on the film. He had no memory of any stereo mix.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PMF

Thomas T

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2001
Messages
10,288
I asked Mr. Peck about stereo on the film. He had no memory of any stereo mix.
Mr. Furmanek has also confirmed that The Big Country was not in stereo. It seems it's a cinematic "urban legend" that has taken on near mythological proportions for a certain segment of fans. Still, no doubt someone will chime in with "I attended the opening day premiere and it was in stereo" :)
 

Paul Rossen

Screenwriter
Joined
Mar 9, 2004
Messages
1,126
Mr. Furmanek has also confirmed that The Big Country was not in stereo. It seems it's a cinematic "urban legend" that has taken on near mythological proportions for a certain segment of fans. Still, no doubt someone will chime in with "I attended the opening day premiere and it was in stereo" :)


I was not at the premiere nor can I remember when and where I first saw The Big Country but even in the face of statements to the contrary I will elect to believe that the Jerome Moross score was recorded in stereo and that at least one print out there in the hinterlands exists that would prove it.

Unfortunately, I believe that even if it does exist and MGM was in possession of it they still would not do a remaster. Here's hoping I'm wrong and they fix the horizontal stretching which does exist on the first blu ray. Re: West Side Story anyone?

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?pageID=2&threadID=69923
 
Last edited:

RMajidi

Premium
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
1,549
Location
Australia
Real Name
Ramin
There is a huge line drawn in the sand in this film, and the question always arises as to who really is the bad guy. I'd be interested in opinions

Having just re-read this thread from top to bottom, I see that the above question - posed by Mr Harris in his original post - has not been taken up.

Upon my first viewing on TV some forty-odd years ago, I instantly fell in love with The Big Country. I've watched it many times since (unfortunately never on the big screen) and my love for it has simply grown with each viewing; so I'm all for discussing the story itself as called for by RAH, albeit six years later.

My take is as follows (spoiler-protected for the benefit of those who have yet to see this great movie):

The narrative presents blind prejudice itself as the bad guy, rather than any individual character, and most everyone on both sides of the divide seems consumed by it. There's a good bit of misdirection throughout with respect to Burl Ives' character who for most of the film appears to be the wronged party. This is well expressed at the end by Gregory Peck's Jim McKay, when he tells Rufus...

"You had me fooled for quite a while, Mr. Hannassey, with your self-righteous talk. What's the difference between his way and your way? How many of those men out there know what this fight is really about? This isn't their war. This is nothing but a personal feud between two selfish, ruthless, vicious old men."

The abiding sense I take away is that each faction is content with keeping aglow the fire of hatred that was lit many years before and whose origins might have even been forgotten. Neither side wants to entertain dousing this flame with fact or shared perspective; but is instead bent on fuelling it into a total conflagration.


Does it ultimately matter which dog barked first?


McKay projects goodness, integrity, inner-strength, reason, reserve and dignity in spades ...or is that Mr Peck himself showing through the garment of the character?

Steve Leech (Charlton Heston) presents as a lackey lapdog, ever eager to commit ignoble deeds at his master's bidding.

A clear-cut contrast of good versus bad... moral strength versus bullying weakness! ...?

My impressions of these two characters has changed over time.

I now see McKay as a good, upstanding man, yet also selfish - albeit an unorthodox selfishness.

Jean Simmons' offhand character assessment comes close to the mark:


Julie Maragon: Obviously Mr. McKay is afraid of only one thing: that people may suspect him of showing off.​


...an astute observation that sheds much light on McKay's conduct; he is not controlled by others' opinions, but his choices are certainly influenced by them. This sits at odds with his own principles that he expresses elsewhere to his first-intended:


Pat Terrill: Don't you care what people think?

Jim McKay: No, you're not responsible for what other people think, only what you are.​


Nowadays I'm inclined to agree with Carroll Baker's reply to Julie's above observation:

Pat Terrill: Well, I think it's a downright deceitful way of acting.​


We also discover that McKay's perilous foray into the Hannassey canyon (risking in the process the neck of innocent Alfonso - Ramón Gutierrez) is motivated by no higher purpose than to get the girl. Gallant and praiseworthy to be sure, but somewhat short of the outward appearance that he's there to put an end to the warring. Great filmmaking and all the more palatable for it.


As Leech comes to recognise that he had misread McKay as a yellow dandy, and concurrently begins to see that his lord and master (Charles Bickford as Henry Terrill) is not the stainless knight he once held him to be, we witness him becoming unexpectedly introspective.

At the last, Leech is brought to a reckoning. In my favourite scene of the film, he is faced with a choice between standing up to his beloved father-figure's naked hatred that is needlessly imperilling them all, or continuing as his lapdog - except this time in full knowledge of the monstrosity of the deeds they are to commit. He makes his stand in a tenderly impassioned plea to Terrill, but is brutally rebuffed, belittled and labelled a coward by the man who is the centre of his universe.

Leech's men stand by him. Terrill is undaunted, and even somewhat emboldened by the indignation of this sudden isolation and he rejects them all with contempt as he rides on to certain death. This is where we see what Leech is truly about as his love and loyalty trump every other consideration. He leaves his men behind and catches up with Terrill to ride towards a death that he knows makes no sense other than that he cannot let Terrill face it alone. That his own erstwhile-thuggish cowhands soon catch up to ride alongside only adds to the heroic poignancy, clouding further the notion of who are the villains of the piece.

Movie magic.
 
Last edited:

Bob Furmanek

Insider
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Messages
6,708
Real Name
Bob
Not to be the naysayer here, but:

THE BIG COUNTRY premiered at New York's Astor Theater on October 1, 1958.

The "New Astor" did not install 70mm equipment until December 1959...

Astor2.JPG


Astor 10.59.JPG
 
Last edited:

Bob Furmanek

Insider
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Messages
6,708
Real Name
Bob
The State-Lake in Chicago was the first theater to install stereophonic sound for the midwest premiere of SHANE on May 27, 1953.

They also held the midwest premiere of THE ROBE in stereophonic sound on September 28, 1953.

If a film was available in stereo, it played that way at the State-Lake.

They hosted the important midwest premiere of THE BIG COUNTRY with guest Gregory Peck on August 19, 1958.

It was not in stereo.

Big_Country_Chicago2.jpg
 
Last edited:

Stephen PI

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 31, 2003
Messages
918
I was not at the premiere nor can I remember when and where I first saw The Big Country but even in the face of statements to the contrary I will elect to believe that the Jerome Moross score was recorded in stereo and that at least one print out there in the hinterlands exists that would prove it.

Unfortunately, I believe that even if it does exist and MGM was in possession of it they still would not do a remaster. Here's hoping I'm wrong and they fix the horizontal stretching which does exist on the first blu ray. Re: West Side Story anyone?

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?pageID=2&threadID=69923

The score for "THE BIG COUNTRY" was recorded in 35mm 3 track stereo on stage seven at the Samuel Goldwyn Studios. When I worked on the laserdisc release we were able to access a mono copy of the score for the isolated score track. It came from a college. They also sent a copy of the back label of their quarter inch box which said stereo to mono copy (somewhere I have a copy, if I can find it I'll put it up here). For the composite soundtrack itself, MGM had a 35mm magnetic three track full coat master. Channel One was the mono soundtrack, nothing on channel two, and on channel three a mono music and effects track.
 

Stephen PI

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 31, 2003
Messages
918
Below is a copy of the label that was on the back of the Scotch tape quarter inch box:



The heavier writing is mine. Along the top you can see when this 'full track mono' copy was made (JUNE 30th 1958). Next to the date it gives the production number and "Big Country score" written underneath. About half way down, written sideways, it says 'Stereo combine', referring to the method of transfer from the 3-channel masters.
As the music was recorded 3-track (multi-track) it does not indicate proof that the final mix was stereo. The recording format of the score was a common procedure, back in 1958, for mono mixed feature films.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
356,808
Messages
5,123,522
Members
144,184
Latest member
H-508
Recent bookmarks
0
Top