A Few Words About A few words about...™ Singin' in the Rain -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Michel_Hafner]

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Singin-in-the-Rain-Blu-ray/18399/#Overview
complains about edge haloes. I see no haloes in the stills that look as if they were created by sharpening, though...
Very organic looking material.

 

[haineshisway]

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Singin-in-the-Rain-Blu-ray/18399/#Overview
complains about edge haloes. I see no haloes in the stills that look as if they were created by sharpening, though...
Very organic looking material.

My guess is that not one of those awful-looking screen caps is indicative of what's on the disc. I would like to know exactly how that "reviewer" knows with such certainty all that he posits. I can't imagine he's not in his early twenties. I hate to tell him, that the faces will always look like what he calls "waxy" because of the very thick and very heavy pancake makeup used for three-strip Technicolor films of that era, especially the musicals.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by NY2LA /t/322127/a-few-words-about-singin-in-the-rain-in-blu-ray/60#post_3948281
So the question then is who decides which Fathom venues get a DCP, and which get the lowres satcast... and why?
The company itself is NCM - a network whose primary purpose is broadcasting pre-show advertising and it appears the default method is satellite.

NCM/Fathom uses the satellite to deliver all its content. No one will get a DCP, which would be better.

What it is played through depends if the theatre is equipped with a digital projector or not. NCM will use the 2K or 4K main digital projector to play the pre-show if the theatre is equipped. It the theatre is still using 35mm in those houses then NCM uses a small inexpensive digital projector. Since not all theatres in the larger circuits are completely 100% digital, if the theatre circuit books the Fathom event in a smaller theatre that does not have a digital projector then it will shown through the pre-show smaller digital projector, which will give you a presentation that leaves a lot to be desired visually and sound wise.

On the other hand, if the Fathom event is through the 2K or 4K main projector, the picture should be in great shape, but NCM/Fathom uses the Non-sync sound option which loud mono. So you have a good picture, but mediocre sound.

The major theatre circuits in the major towns should have all their theatres 100% digital, especially their big guns, but getting into middle America, AMC and Regal still have a long way to go to get 100% digital, but will be forced to get there by the end of 2013.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

My guess is that not one of those awful-looking screen caps is indicative of what's on the disc.

None of the stills look bad, much less awful. They look actually very good. Which is my point. The stills don't show what is allegedly wrong with the transfer.

 

[Robert Harris]

None of the stills look bad, much less awful. They look actually very good. Which is my point. The stills don't show what is allegedly wrong with the transfer.

All of which is confusing. I agree, in that I'm not seeing any real problems with the captures.
But I also had no problem with the Blu-ray in motion.
The only problem, if it is one, may be that the Blu-ray looks quite like a 35mm dye transfer print, which one might presume to be very negative, especially if one has a dislike of dye transfer prints of three-strip productions of the early '50s.
Since I'm a huge fan of dye transfer prints of these subjects, to me the Blu-ray looks pretty good.
Or possibly a bit better.
Unless, of course, one has a dislike of dye transfer prints.
Just saying'...
And this also looks nothing like the last Transformers film, or even the new Spiderman.
Possibly because they may not have been shot three-strip.
At least from what I've read.

 

[JoeDoakes]

I took my little girl yesterday to the one day showing. They made a point of showing it in its original aspect ratio so it was not faux widescreen like Casablanca. I did not see as much fine detail as when I saw The Godfather at the same theater (4K projectors), but I assumed that was a function of the original film. Generally, it looked great to me, but I do not have much confidence in my ability to tell these things. Little girl liked it too (we skipped the documentary)!

 

[Chuck Anstey]

I took my wife to see it as it is one of her favorite musicals and she enjoyed the whole event with the interviews and then the movie. From a technical POV, it did have a few issues. Our theater did not size the projection correctly or did not move the masking to its maximum height, lowest point because some of the picture was being projected above and below the screen. Now the masking looked like it was at its limit and the image was almost literally floor to ceiling in a stadium seating theater. There was light spill lighting up the seats themselves and someone standing up would have cast a head shadow on the screen. The image itself seemed devoid of grain and there was some very clear haloing in certain scenes like the "Gotta Dance" number. Enjoyable but I hope the Blu-ray is superior.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey /t/322127/a-few-words-about-singin-in-the-rain-in-blu-ray/60#post_3948458
I took my wife to see it as it is one of her favorite musicals and she enjoyed the whole event with the interviews and then the movie. From a technical POV, it did have a few issues. Our theater did not size the projection correctly or did not move the masking to its maximum height, lowest point because some of the picture was being projected above and below the screen. Now the masking looked like it was at its limit and the image was almost literally floor to ceiling in a stadium seating theater. There was light spill lighting up the seats themselves and someone standing up would have cast a head shadow on the screen. The image itself seemed devoid of grain and there was some very clear haloing in certain scenes like the "Gotta Dance" number. Enjoyable but I hope the Blu-ray is superior.

The more I hear about these "events," and the one size fits all methodology of projection, the more I think they should just go away.

 

[Doctorossi]

The more I hear about these "events," and the one size fits all methodology of projection, the more I think they should just go away.

Or, they could just improve them (ie. deliver a DCP to each theatre, to be played on their digital feature projectors) and we'd have a valuable addition to the revival circuit.

 

[haineshisway]

None of the stills look bad, much less awful. They look actually very good. Which is my point. The stills don't show what is allegedly wrong with the transfer.

Neither you nor I can judge the quality of those caps until we have seen the disc - my guess is that they will not resemble what at least I am seeing, as their caps rarely do - in some cases in a rather large way.

 

[Chuck Anstey]

The more I hear about these "events," and the one size fits all methodology of projection, the more I think they should just go away.

Or, they could just improve them (ie. deliver a DCP to each theatre, to be played on their digital feature projectors) and we'd have a valuable addition to the revival circuit.

I agree that they should improve them. The theater had wonderful seating, a huge screen, and presumably a 4K projector in the back. The money has been spent. Now Fathom just has to do the easy part and deliver a top quality image signal. The concept is sound. I'm frustrated that only people in southern California or NYC ever get to see special releases and this concept seems like the perfect way for a whole lot more people to have access. The problem seems to be that Fathom is so paranoid about the data its like they think they are delivering U.S. engraving plates or launch codes and therefore the quality suffers because of copy protection efforts like a satellite feed instead of physical disks.

 

[Chuck Anstey]

I want to add one more thing. I always sit through all the end credits of a movie. It was very strange to have a movie in the theater actually end with the words "The End" and it really was the end of the movie. Ending credits seem to have always been part of movies during my life.

 

[Doctorossi]

The problem seems to be that Fathom is so paranoid about the data its like they think they are delivering U.S. engraving plates or launch codes and therefore the quality suffers because of copy protection efforts like a satellite feed instead of physical disks.

Fathom uses their satellite streaming system for the live events (concert simulcasts, etc.) they book into theatres. I think their reluctance to use anything else for movies is more likely just a matter of inertia and simplicity. "We already have a system in place that throws an image at the screen- why reinvent the wheel?"

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey /t/322127/a-few-words-about-singin-in-the-rain-in-blu-ray/90#post_3948489
I agree that they should improve them. The theater had wonderful seating, a huge screen, and presumably a 4K projector in the back. The money has been spent. Now Fathom just has to do the easy part and deliver a top quality image signal. The concept is sound. I'm frustrated that only people in southern California or NYC ever get to see special releases and this concept seems like the perfect way for a whole lot more people to have access. The problem seems to be that Fathom is so paranoid about the data its like they think they are delivering U.S. engraving plates or launch codes and therefore the quality suffers because of copy protection efforts like a satellite feed instead of physical disks.

It does not have anything to do with copy protection, for if they used a hard digital copy it would come in on a hard drive with a digital key to unlock the content arriving by email a day or two before the show. NCM/Fathom uses satellite transmission for it is a lower cost to them. They have all the elements at their fingertips and since they transmit to the theatres that they are contracted daily, the cost is minimal.

Sending a hard drive would mean producing one for each venue, shipping it to the theatre, sending a key to unlock the content, and then receiving the hard drive back at the end of the run. Deluxe and Technicolor are experts at this while NCM is not. A hard drive with content would cost $150.00, delivery and pick up $45.00 and sending key $3.00. So the cost would be around $200.00, while by satellite it would be about $45.00 per theatre for NCM.

I think the idea is top notch and should be expanded but only if it can be handled with class. In England, there was a company that worked with MGM and re-released several of the Bond films for one or two nights and did so by using digital hard drives. That is the way to do it.

 

[JoshZ]

My guess is that not one of those awful-looking screen caps is indicative of what's on the disc. I would like to know exactly how that "reviewer" knows with such certainty all that he posits. I can't imagine he's not in his early twenties. I hate to tell him, that the faces will always look like what he calls "waxy" because of the very thick and very heavy pancake makeup used for three-strip Technicolor films of that era, especially the musicals.

I'm no fan of that site, but Ken Brown is by far the best of their reviewers. Doesn't mean I always agree with him, but he's not some dumbass kid fresh out of college. It also should be noted that he gave the video a 4 out of 5, which is a very high score. None of the complaints he has about it are damning.
I look forward to watching the disc myself.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi /t/322127/a-few-words-about-singin-in-the-rain-in-blu-ray/90#post_3948498
Fathom uses their satellite streaming system for the live events (concert simulcasts, etc.) they book into theatres. I think their reluctance to use anything else for movies is more likely just a matter of inertia and simplicity. "We already have a system in place that throws an image at the screen- why reinvent the wheel?"

Rather like calling in a refrigerator repairman when your car won't start.

Films are neither concerts, nor basketball games.

RAH

 

[Chuck Anstey]

Sending a hard drive would mean producing one for each venue, shipping it to the theatre, sending a key to unlock the content, and then receiving the hard drive back at the end of the run.  Deluxe and Technicolor are experts at this while NCM is not.  A hard drive with content would cost $150.00, delivery and pick up $45.00 and sending key $3.00.  So the cost would be around $200.00, while by satellite it would be about $45.00 per theatre for NCM.

Since the HD can be reused many times, the cost per event is only around $48 using your numbers plus some small amortized amount for the harddisk. They could even send the data by satellite but rather than "live" so the stream speed is limited by instant bandwidth, they could record to their projector internal disk over many more hours.

 

[marknyc]

I'm confused - was the 2001 DVD of SITR Ultra Resolution? I didn't know that...
I'm assuming this one is also UR - but why do none of the promotional materials state that?

 

[lukejosephchung]

Originally Posted by marknyc /t/322127/a-few-words-about-singin-in-the-rain-in-blu-ray/90#post_3948544
I'm confused - was the 2001 DVD of SITR Ultra Resolution? I didn't know that...
I'm assuming this one is also UR - but why do none of the promotional materials state that?

Ultra Resolution in 2001 meant a 1080i image, which was the upper limit of HDTV home screens then...Ultra Resolution in 2012 means 4k resolution or a 2160p image!!!

Hope this clarifies things for you, Mark.

 

[marknyc]

I believe "Ultra Resolution" refers to the process of aligning each of the three-strip Technicolor negatives digitally rather than in the optical printer. That's what I'm asking about.