A Few Words About A few words about...™ North by Northwest -- in Blu-ray (2 Viewers)

[Brandon Conway]

It's not so much self-promotion as budgetary licensing issues.

 

[Hollywoodaholic]

True. But why wouldn't Paramount or Universal wave clearances on a documentary that would obviously help promote their products? Methinks it was never in WB's agenda, which is their right, but not a true documentary approach.

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway

It's not so much self-promotion as budgetary licensing issues.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Hollywoodaholic

True. But why wouldn't Paramount or Universal wave clearances on a documentary that would obviously help promote their products? Methinks it was never in WB's agenda, which is their right, but not a true documentary approach.

If you owned some high quality Hitchcock films, but your competitor owned the films that were considered the cream of the crop, would you let his product over shadow yours in your own documentary?


Doug

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

_Man_

 

[TonyD]

Originally Posted by Carlo Medina /forum/thread/294159/a-few-words-about-north-by-northwest-in-blu-ray/60#post_3626546

Is anybody having trouble with the pop menu? I just picked up my copy today and I can't access the menu. I know WB Blu Ray's just start with the film but normally they have a pop up menu that you can access.

Works very well on my ps3 just by pressing the "pop up/menu" or the button with the circle on it.

Also no doubt how great this looks but I think it's a tad dark.
and volume at least the dialog channel is very low.

I think this is Hitch's best film, other then the terrible drunken car chase scene this is a perfect movie.

 

[benbess]

I love this film too. I don't think it's too dark. The special effects (esp. at the very end of the movie) work much better for me now than they did in the overly lightened DVD. I love how you can see in detail the patterns on the beautiful dresses. The driving scene early on has a few sped up scenes that I don't like, but otherwise I think it's a great example of comedy and scary at the same time. Cary Grant pulls it off masterfully. I really enjoy that scene where he's looking out the door of the Mercedes off a cliff and looking at his tires spinning. Nice povs shots. It is pretty much a perfect film, and deeper in its critique of the Cold War (even while being patriotic at the same time) than is generally realized. One of the things I noticed when watching it again is how good Eva Marie Saint is in that scene in the woods after she's "shot" ROT. She's saying goodbye, and he's just coming to realize what she's in for. And then she begins to weep a little.

But to me there are so many Hitchcock films at the NNW level that it's hard for me to count. Would love to see so many on blu, including Rebecca, Shadow of a Doubt, Spellbound, Notorious, Rope, Stage Fright, Strangers on a Train, Dial M, Rear Window, The Man Who Knew Too Much (my avatar), Vertigo, Psycho, and the Birds.

And there are many others that are pretty close for me, like the following flawed but underrated films: Saboteur, Lifeboat, Under Capricorn, To Catch A Thief, The Wrong Man, and Marnie (and probably a few others I've forgotten)...

 

[taoyue]

Since this thread was recently resurrected, let me take a stab at an old question from November:

Originally Posted by Tim Haxton

Is this information about the restoration in Germany true? Seems pretty far fetched.
Thanks for the recap. I always enjoy reading your notes on new releases Robert!

Only Mr. Harris can explain what exactly he meant by that tongue-in-cheek review.


But I can guess. Considering the shape that the negative was in, the digital restoration of North by Northwest is nearly miraculous. Miracles = nuns and monks and magical potions.


1958-1960 were the absolute worst years for survivability of Eastmancolor negatives, and that's exactly when North by Northwest was made. A combination of film stock and processing changes just caused the Eastmancolor negatives from this period to fade faster than any other -- both before and after.

 

[Osato]

Originally Posted by taoyue


Since this thread was recently resurrected, let me take a stab at an old question from November:



Only Mr. Harris can explain what exactly he meant by that tongue-in-cheek review.


But I can guess. Considering the shape that the negative was in, the digital restoration of North by Northwest is nearly miraculous. Miracles = nuns and monks and magical potions.


1958-1960 were the absolute worst years for survivability of Eastmancolor negatives, and that's exactly when North by Northwest was made. A combination of film stock and processing changes just caused the Eastmancolor negatives from this period to fade faster than any other -- both before and after.

Thanks! Very interesting. Would've been nice to have a feature about the restoration work. I always appreciate docs about the process and the insight too.

There is a nice one for the James Bond films on Dr. No.

In regard to restorations, it seems like it can be a double edged sword at times. Both with the clarity of HD and blu ray showing more than what a DVD transfer does. Audio updates like On Her Majesty's Secret Service (not currently on blu ray but remixed in DTS and DD for the UE DVD) and not getting the film score mix quite right in the Gumbold's safe scene even though overall sounding much clearer and better than the previous DVD. It's nice they do include the original mix for purists too. Color timing can be another issue too. That is making the film possibly looking better than it was in the theater and for modern audiences as well.

I think it's interesting for audio mixes that many who want original cuts of films, don't necessarily want the original audio mix included. Such is the case for Star Trek The Motion Picture on blu ray which is a new 7.1 mix. Or the original version of the Star Wars films on DVD where they are in 2.0 audio. Many were upset that a 5.1 mix was not included however isn't this the same mix that would've been in theaters? Personally, I appreciate the new audio mixes for the most part, however I do appreciate having the original mix included for reference as well.

In another thread someone posted screen caps of Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan and made the comment that it seems the new blu ray restoration version of the film is tinted or timed differently than the previous DVD release. I have a difficult time with those comparisons at times mainly due to the wider color spectrum that Blu ray can show than dvd and the fact that comparing a DVD transfer and blu ray transfer can be like comparing apples and oranges. In addition I believe Director Nick Meyer was also involved with the restoration. However as we know from other films director's may even choose to have their films now look a bit different now too (The French Connection).


There has been some remarks on color timing for On Her Majesty's Secret Service UE DVD and that the colors and lighting in the opening beach fight sequence is much different than previous DVD and home video releases too. I believe another comment was also made about the opening shots of You Only Live Twice right after the open titles sequence as well.

I appreciate Robert Harris' insight on the transfer process as it relates to blu ray and also what the studios are facing in terms of budget challenges. Every project comes down to $ of course and meeting the cost of a project. As fans of films we always want them to spend as much as possible to get it right, however there is a constraint of doing it right as well as cost for each project. They need to make their investment back so they can continue to spend and do other transfers and releases of other films.

I really appreciate what the studios like WB and MGM (w Fox) have done for titles like North By Northwest and the James Bond films. The Sergio Leone Man With No Name Trilogy was a mixed bag from what I've read and also the comparisons to the Italian transfers. I can only speculate on those films and MGM's financial issues at the time it was released on blu ray...

I hope the studios strive to give us the best product as possible too.

 

[Robert Harris]

Since the process has been inadvertently allowed out of the proverbial bag in a Ten Commandments promo piece, it is perhaps time to explain how N x NW and other films may now be brought back to their original glory by certain well-placed digital wonders.


It was the intent to reign in the process to be used only by those entities which I felt could take proper advantage of it, but here we go...


And this will be a discussion that may give some a headache.


A dozen years ago, during the restoration of Rear Window for Universal, we discovered that beyond extreme yellow dye failure in dupes, that the entire reel 5B had been damaged in the removal of protective lacquer. Since RW had been protected on the earliest variant of separation masters, compositing those masters, especially for dupes would be problematic, if not downright unpleasant.


In a meeting, held in a small inconspicuous Italian restaurant not far from the Paramount lot, a discussion was held with Phil Feiner, then chief of Pacific Title, whether one might be able to drop the entire yellow dye layer out of a dupe during exposure, and replace it on an optical printer, by maneuvering the contrast levels and size differentials of the black & white master positive containing the information as copied from that yellow dye layer before damage. He averred that it was worth a try, and Jim Katz, producing the restoration nodded approval to begin testing. While sizing and contrast were initially problems, the final result was only problematic in terms of increased contrast because of the optical generation.


This process was used for portions of reel 5B, as well as all of the opticals, with the slo-mo optical Stewart / Kelly kiss, being a combination of analogue yellow layer replacement, combined with a final digital clean-up pass. Further tests were performed on The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956), and with some problems of fit, color was brought back to day one accuracy. While conceptually this may all sound relatively simply, there is actually quite a bit of elemental hand-holding.


Beginning in 2003 toward the restoration of Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot, we began to test the process digitally, dropping out the entire yellow dye layer from extant portions of the original negative, and replacing same with a re-sized, gamma-manipulated digital version of the original 1956 black & white yellow master in VistaVision format. After months of testing at various facilities, the work moved to Kodak's CineSite, with Jerry Pooler in the colorist seat. Working on a small monitor, he was able to control LUTs, and we were able to create workable data files, allowing us to record out a new VistaVision interpositive, which could then be optically enlarged to the necessary 65mm negative, toward 70mm printing. The entire film, as it always the norm, was broken down shot by shot, with certain shots using the extant masters, and others using a more complex set of digital layer replacements, all being brought together to form a cohesive final product. Different technical facilities were used, changing on a shot by shot basis.


In the summer of 2005 testing moved to Lowry Digital, where among other items on the agenda, we were permitted to test various elements from The Ten Commandments, and were able to bring the film back to it's full 1956 color rendering.


Later tests at WB's MPI facility were used to bring back color to The Alamo (1960) after 8k scans produced at FotoKem, although for the record, fade is one of The Alamo's lesser problems.


The process, which has far wider abilities than described, was most recently used for North by Northwest, and portions of The Ten Commandments.


Using this process, every film with separation masters, and via other means in the process, some without, can be brought back to their original chromatic luster, which one cannot achieve by comping the three separation records.


Fortunately films must no longer be shipped to the Black Forest.


RAH

 

[montrealfilmguy]

i find it extremely gratifying to be in the company of people on this website who have the type of

knowledge that feeds my film geekness.


I'd like to thank you all.To be succinct,i will say this.


I love my life,but im pretty darn happy theres a thing called film thats a giant part of it.


that said,with the awesome power of the internet,can we put all the Robert Harris entries into a book,because some of these in this thread alone are pure gems to be kept as reference.

 

[Osato]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Since the process has been inadvertently allowed out of the proverbial bag in a Ten Commandments promo piece, it is perhaps time to explain how N x NW and other films may now be brought back to their original glory by certain well-placed digital wonders.


It was the intent to reign in the process to be used only by those entities which I felt could take proper advantage of it, but here we go...


And this will be a discussion that may give some a headache.


A dozen years ago, during the restoration of Rear Window for Universal, we discovered that beyond extreme yellow dye failure in dupes, that the entire reel 5B had been damaged in the removal of protective lacquer. Since RW had been protected on the earliest variant of separation masters, compositing those masters, especially for dupes would be problematic, if not downright unpleasant.


In a meeting, held in a small inconspicuous Italian restaurant not far from the Paramount lot, a discussion was held with Phil Feiner, then chief of Pacific Title, whether one might be able to drop the entire yellow dye layer out of a dupe during exposure, and replace it on an optical printer, by maneuvering the contrast levels and size differentials of the black & white master positive containing the information as copied from that yellow dye layer before damage. He averred that it was worth a try, and Jim Katz, producing the restoration nodded approval to begin testing. While sizing and contrast were initially problems, the final result was only problematic in terms of increased contrast because of the optical generation.


This process was used for portions of reel 5B, as well as all of the opticals, with the slo-mo optical Stewart / Kelly kiss, being a combination of analogue yellow layer replacement, combined with a final digital clean-up pass. Further tests were performed on The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956), and with some problems of fit, color was brought back to day one accuracy. While conceptually this may all sound relatively simply, there is actually quite a bit of elemental hand-holding.


Beginning in 2003 toward the restoration of Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot, we began to test the process digitally, dropping out the entire yellow dye layer from extant portions of the original negative, and replacing same with a re-sized, gamma-manipulated digital version of the original 1956 black & white yellow master in VistaVision format. After months of testing at various facilities, the work moved to Kodak's CineSite, with Jerry Pooler in the colorist seat. Working on a small monitor, he was able to control LUTs, and we were able to create workable data files, allowing us to record out a new VistaVision interpositive, which could then be optically enlarged to the necessary 65mm negative, toward 70mm printing. The entire film, as it always the norm, was broken down shot by shot, with certain shots using the extant masters, and others using a more complex set of digital layer replacements, all being brought together to form a cohesive final product. Different technical facilities were used, changing on a shot by shot basis.


In the summer of 2005 testing moved to Lowry Digital, where among other items on the agenda, we were permitted to test various elements from The Ten Commandments, and were able to bring the film back to it's full 1956 color rendering.


Later tests at WB's MPI facility were used to bring back color to The Alamo (1960) after 8k scans produced at FotoKem, although for the record, fade is one of The Alamo's lesser problems.


The process, which has far wider abilities than described, was most recently used for North by Northwest, and portions of The Ten Commandments.


Using this process, every film with separation masters, and via other means in the process, some without, can be brought back to their original chromatic luster, which one cannot achieve by comping the three separation records.


Fortunately films must no longer be shipped to the Black Forest.


RAH

Thank you! Great stuff here.

Robert - I just rewatched the AMC documentary Obsessed with Vertigo documentary. Was this above described process also used for Vertigo? Also, with the 2 year restoration that was done with Vertigo, is it simply a scanning process of the new negatives in order to release Vertigo to blu ray? My hope is that this one will be out very soon on blu ray!


It sounds like at the time Universal was taking very good steps to at least preserve Vertigo for future releases. Is this true of the other Universal owned Hitchcock films?

It's nice to see some of the Hitchcock films on blu ray.


Hopefully The Birds, Vertigo and Rear Window will get a release date soon for blu ray as well.

 

[Phoebus]

I remember seeing Rear Window for the first time when the five "lost hitchcocks" were re-released in the 1980s. It was extremely beautiful to view, with dazzling Technicolor. I can honestly say that no video or dvd version has been able to capture the detail. colour and vibrancy of the print I saw.


Then to see RW subject to restoration in the 1990s mystified me, since the print I saw was in such great shape. I found the three other Vistavisions to be rather dull (I was bored senseless at vertigo the first time round) and rope to be forgettable.


Most recently on UK HD daytime tv I've caught up with a lovely version of Rope, also a very attractive restoration of To Catch a Thief - another of the Vistavision Hitch's


now I've no idea how much Mr Harris has been involved in either of these projects, but the results look marvellous.


I'm really looking forward to Rear Window in blu - hopefully to project it will recapture that first viewing of mine.


[and I'm very keen to get my hands on a 3d blu of Dial M for Murder, eventually!! I don't have any profound love for the movie, but it will be a lot of fun to project for friends.]

 

[Robert Harris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Haxton

Thank you! Great stuff here.
Robert - I just rewatched the AMC documentary Obsessed with Vertigo documentary. Was this above described process also used for Vertigo?


No. Vertigo pre-dates the process by two years.


Also, with the 2 year restoration that was done with Vertigo, is it simply a scanning process of the new negatives in order to release Vertigo to blu ray? My hope is that this one will be out very soon on blu ray!


Should be totally reworked.


It sounds like at the time Universal was taking very good steps to at least preserve Vertigo for future releases. Is this true of the other Universal owned Hitchcock films?

It's nice to see some of the Hitchcock films on blu ray.


Hopefully The Birds, Vertigo and Rear Window will get a release date soon for blu ray as well.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Phoebus

I remember seeing Rear Window for the first time when the five "lost hitchcocks" were re-released in the 1980s. It was extremely beautiful to view, with dazzling Technicolor. I can honestly say that no video or dvd version has been able to capture the detail. colour and vibrancy of the print I saw.


Then to see RW subject to restoration in the 1990s mystified me, since the print I saw was in such great shape.

You may have been lucky enough to see an archive print.



I found the three other Vistavisions to be rather dull (I was bored senseless at vertigo the first time round) and rope to be forgettable.


Most recently on UK HD daytime tv I've caught up with a lovely version of Rope, also a very attractive restoration of To Catch a Thief - another of the Vistavision Hitch's


now I've no idea how much Mr Harris has been involved in either of these projects, but the results look marvellous.


I'm really looking forward to Rear Window in blu - hopefully to project it will recapture that first viewing of mine.


[and I'm very keen to get my hands on a 3d blu of Dial M for Murder, eventually!! I don't have any profound love for the movie, but it will be a lot of fun to project for friends.]

 

[Phoebus]

"You may have been lucky enough to see an archive print."


Thank you for this answer! The question has been nagging at me for years.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Originally Posted by Phoebus

[and I'm very keen to get my hands on a 3d blu of Dial M for Murder, eventually!! I don't have any profound love for the movie, but it will be a lot of fun to project for friends.]

Sign me up for that as well - I saw it projected in the original dual-strip 35mm 3-D at the Film Forum last year and it was amazing. The print wasn't in as good shape as House Of Wax was, but it didn't matter - it was incredible to see it as it had originally been shot. The sense of claustrophobia Hitchcock created, where as the film progresses it really did start to feel like the walls were closing in on everyone, it was masterfully done. It gave the viewer the sense of being voyeur into something that we shouldn't have seen, which totally upped the suspense factor for me.

 

[Phoebus]

"Sign me up for that as well - I saw it projected in the original dual-strip 35mm 3-D at the Film Forum last year and it was amazing. The print wasn't in as good shape as House Of Wax was, but it didn't matter - it was incredible to see it as it had originally been shot. The sense of claustrophobia Hitchcock created, where as the film progresses it really did start to feel like the walls were closing in on everyone, it was masterfully done. It gave the viewer the sense of being voyeur into something that we shouldn't have seen, which totally upped the suspense factor for me."


Bit of a game of two halves for me. I find a few of the performances a tad peculiar, as though everybody's constipated or something. The murder is the best thing in the first part - pure hitch. The performance of the inspector brings the whole second act to life as he's so much fun to watch. [on a related but perverse note, I had similar feelings when watching The Exorcist - everyone was so dull in the first hour and then the demon possessing Regan was so interesting and "fun" that all my sympathies got a bit skewed..]


The inspector actor turns up in To Catch a Thief, playing a similar sort of Englishman - which contributed greatly to my recent HD rewatching.

***


To add another curved ball here, when I projected the dvd of psycho a year or so back I got the sense that it begins in black and white with tv style lighting and image.. and then at a certain point it suddenly seemed to have come to life vividly once Marion Crane was on the run, looking much more like conventional film, but somehow having a not dissimilar to 3d effect as the increased vividness and BH strings turning everything weirdly vivid and lifelike. The sensation was that the TV had sort of come alive with a curious hyperrealism.


Thus, I got hold of the blu-ray recently. Checked the opening - a paramount tv-style logo, not filmic, which seemed to be bearing out my hypothesis, but then the image all seemed clear flilmic and balanced throughout. I've yet to sit down and watch it end to end, as I felt a bit disappointed by the more homogenised effect. Perhaps I imagined the effect from the dvd viewing - I'd just finished watching Fosse's Lenny, though, and was keen to compare to another b/w movie, so my eyes were feeling pretty synched into b/w imagery at the time.

My way of saying that I'm not sure I like the bluray of Psycho, but for peculiar reasons... One day I may even sit down and watch it..

 

[Adam_S]

Did Disney's Pollyanna use a similar process? I remember there was an extensive extra about the restoration on the dvd, iirc the separation masters were made incorrectly and there was no yellow layer usable to fix the faded negative.

 

[Mark-P]

According to the documentary in the Pollyanna "Vault Disney Collection" DVD, the entire restoration was done from the separation masters, but one reel was missing a green record as back in 1960 the technician had forgot to switch filters and made two blue records of that reel. They went back to the OCN and re-extracted the green record which hadn't faded too badly and then recombined it with the two separation masters and it was a complete success in bringing back the original color.

Originally Posted by Adam_S

Did Disney's Pollyanna use a similar process? I remember there was an extensive extra about the restoration on the dvd, iirc the separation masters were made incorrectly and there was no yellow layer usable to fix the faded negative.

 

[Robert Harris]

There are quite a number of sep masters without all three records. Someone forgets to change the filter pack. And there was never any QC at either the lab

or studio level. Masters can still be sitting in the same black paper inside the same cans in which they were delivered half a century ago.


Warranty?