A Few Words About A few words about...™ Hondo -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Richard--W /t/320871/a-few-words-about-hondo-in-blu-ray/30#post_3929236
I remember that. Maltin was a discreet and politic host, and a good emcee. A shame his on-stage interview with Gretchen Wayne was not included on this blu-ray.
You're article isn't reaching people, Bob. Maybe because of the way it's linked. You should email a pdf or something to everybody at Warner Brothers, to Warner Home Video, to the Wayne family''s rep, and perhaps to review sites.
Anyhow, I'll probably buy it used from amazon marketplace. That way no money of mine will get back to Warner Home Video.

However, it's being released by Paramount.






Crawdaddy

 

[Richard--W]

Oh, that's right. I still associate HONDO with Warner Brothers, who co-financed and released the film in 1953.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

We've just gotten our new site on-line. Here's a link to the HONDO article that Jack Theakston and I wrote in 2007. http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/home/hondo-3-d-release

 

[Bob Furmanek]

I'm happy to say that both Gary Tooze at DVDBeaver.com and Martin Liebman at Blu-ray.com have updated their reviews to include information about HONDO's wide 3-D release.
If you see any other reviews that repeat the myth, please let me know. It's good to get the facts out there!
Best,
Bob

 

[JParker]

I'm happy to say that both Gary Tooze at DVDBeaver.com and Martin Liebman at Blu-ray.com have updated their reviews to include information about HONDO's wide 3-D release.
If you see any other reviews that repeat the myth, please let me know. It's good to get the facts out there!
Best,
Bob

Thanks for the info, Bob.
And here's Martin's update, I didn't know they did this (and hyperlinks to your links are in his review; sadly, he liked the Blu-ray of My Fair Lady, send him a link to Bob's review, why don't you?):
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Hondo-Blu-ray/37009/#Review

Hondo Blu-ray Review
One of The Duke's best finally makes its Blu-ray debut.
Reviewed by Martin Liebman, May 22, 2012
Note that much of the historical background for this review -- namely the discussion of the film's limited 3D screenings upon its release -- is derived from the supplementary features found on this disc, namely the Leonard Maltin/Frank Thompson commentary track. These gentleman state early in the commentary that the film received a limited, weeklong 3D run in New York and Los Angeles (and possibly in the premiere city of Houston) and was shown otherwise in 2D thereafter. This information is disputed by Bob Furmanek and Jack Theakston, authors of the contrary yet highly informative article 'The 3-D Release of HONDO,' published on the 3-D Film Archive website. Either way, the release of 'Hondo' remains one of the more fascinating stories from the 1950s, a story made all the more interesting by the contrasting information coming from two reputable sources.

 

[jim_falconer]

Looking at the screen shots on DVD Beaver, it's pretty obvious that Hondo was shot for both academy ratio and composed later for widescreen theaters. The DVD released back in 2005 has a lot more picture information at the top and bottom, while the 2012 blu ray release contains no additional information on the sides. Don't want to start any arguments one way or the other, just making an observation.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Well, I'd like to say something about this. Here is an issue as far as I'm concerned. Take the trip over to the DVDBeaver site and look at the comparison between the dvd and the new blu. To my eye the shots from the dvd look properly composed where the shots from the blu look badly cropped.
It is my opinion that the DP on the film would have preferred the composition of his shots as we see them on the dvd and that the blu-ray image crops way too much from the top and bottom of the image. I think the composition from the dvd is perfect and beautiful and those shots shown on DVDBeaver of the blu-ray look like a mistake. Just my opinion but knowing what we know about the image I was sort of shocked at the blu-ray cropping.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Reggie W /t/320871/a-few-words-about-hondo-in-blu-ray/60#post_3930385
Well, I'd like to say something about this. Here is an issue as far as I'm concerned. Take the trip over to the DVDBeaver site and look at the comparison between the dvd and the new blu. To my eye the shots from the dvd look properly composed where the shots from the blu look badly cropped.
It is my opinion that the DP on the film would have preferred the composition of his shots as we see them on the dvd and that the blu-ray image crops way too much from the top and bottom of the image. I think the composition from the dvd is perfect and beautiful and those shots shown on DVDBeaver of the blu-ray look like a mistake. Just my opinion but knowing what we know about the image I was sort of shocked at the blu-ray cropping.

I checked the DVD Beaver site, it looks normal to me, the open matte version has lots of headroom there, i think it's possible the widescreen edition looks at it's best when shown in 3D but no way does it look cramped in those screenshots, at least as far as i am concerned.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Looking at the screen shots on DVD Beaver, it's pretty obvious that Hondo was shot for both academy ratio and composed later for widescreen theaters. The DVD released back in 2005 has a lot more picture information at the top and bottom, while the 2012 blu ray release contains no additional information on the sides. Don't want to start any arguments one way or the other, just making an observation.

It was not composed later for widescreen. It was photographed from the start of principal photography on June 11 for 1.85:1 (and 1.75:1) while protected for 1.37:1. This is documented in telegrams between Jack Warner in Burbank and John Wayne on location. There's a direct quote in our article. http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/home/hondo-3-d-release
It's quite possible this widescreen transfer is harvested from the 2005 transfer which might be zoomed in a bit. In the past, Paramount was known for zooming in to create full frame versions of widescreen films, such as the DVD of Red Garters and the Netflix HD master of Knock on Wood.
With that being said, I feel the widescreen compositions look fine on the new Blu-ray. Close-ups in widescreen are meant to focus on the eyes.

 

[Mark-P]

Not true. There is just a smidgen more information on the sides, especially on the left. The proper widescreen composition is much more pleasurable to my eye.

Looking at the screen shots on DVD Beaver, it's pretty obvious that Hondo was shot for both academy ratio and composed later for widescreen theaters. The DVD released back in 2005 has a lot more picture information at the top and bottom, while the 2012 blu ray release contains no additional information on the sides. Don't want to start any arguments one way or the other, just making an observation.

 

[JParker]

We've just gotten our new site on-line. Here's a link to the HONDO article that Jack Theakston and I wrote in 2007. http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/home/hondo-3-d-release

Bob, not exactly off topic but since you're a 3D guy, have you seen Showscan? Trumbull's research showed that we really don't see "3D" beyond say, 6 feet or so. So higher frame rates and brighter images are what counts. He talked about new laser projection tech and looking like a "window". This tech would far exceed Showscan, based on his comments. I suspect the Hondo camera placement was equivalent to distance between eyes of a Pterodactyl!
See here:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/risky-business/ves-douglas-trumbull-peter-jackson-james-cameron-2001-kubrick-288290
Now he's working with it.
Have you seen any of this Star Wars stuff, and any thoughts?
Or is it, sadly, limited to current people active in the 'industry'? They'd court Trumbull for the business, obviously.
Does anyone else know?
On the other hand, who cares about Hunger Games III in laser. It would be wasted.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

I'm sorry but I haven't seen Showscan.
So far as Star Wars, I haven't seen it in 3-D but I have yet to see a post-converted 3-D title that impressed me.
The Warner Bros. All-Media rig (which photographed Hondo, The Bounty Hunter, Dial M for Murder, The Command and Phantom of the Rue Morgue in 3-D) was designed by Al Tondreau and was extremely flexible, allowing for an interaxial of one and 1/8th inches.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

It's quite possible this widescreen transfer is harvested from the 2005 transfer which might be zoomed in a bit. In the past, Paramount was known for zooming in to create full frame versions of widescreen films, such as the DVD of Red Garters and the Netflix HD master of Knock on Wood.

I think that is it exactly, it looks as if it is zoomed in a bit and cropped. To me the thing that really stands out is you lose a lot of picture information at the top and bottom of the image but gain very little on the sides. The information that is lost is far greater than what we gain with the widescreen image it seems to me. I think this is why it looks to me that the shots were more thoughtfully composed on the dvd. I guess it is a personal preference thing.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

I think that is it exactly, it looks as if it is zoomed in a bit and cropped. To me the thing that really stands out is you lose a lot of picture information at the top and bottom of the image but gain very little on the sides. The information that is lost is far greater than what we gain with the widescreen image it seems to me. I think this is why it looks to me that the shots were more thoughtfully composed on the dvd. I guess it is a personal preference thing.

But that's how virtually all non-anamorphic widescreen films are photographed and presented theatrically. The projector has a 1.85 matte installed and the top & bottom are cropped off.

 

[TravisR]

...I have yet to see a post-converted 3-D title that impressed me.

Did you see Titanic? I thought it was the exception to the "conversions are all bad" rule.

 

[JParker]

I'm sorry but I haven't seen Showscan.
So far as Star Wars, I haven't seen it in 3-D but I have yet to see a post-converted 3-D title that impressed me.
The Warner Bros. All-Media rig (which photographed Hondo, The Bounty Hunter, Dial M for Murder, The Command and Phantom of the Rue Morgue in 3-D) was designed by Al Tondreau and was extremely flexible, allowing for an interaxial of one and 1/8th inches.

Thanks, that is pretty amazing, so the system would give a natural 3D perspective but I meant "Star Wars" as a generic term, like Star Trek, not the film. I meant, to quote Trumbull, the laser projection technology he discussed, from the above link. Has anyone here seen it? His point, as I understand it, is that 3D for realism, that is, for a "film" to look like real life, is less important than more brightness and higher frame rate. ShowScan was 70mm projected at 60 fps.
Trumbull said,

The Academy is trying to archive my ShowScan negatives, but I want to demonstrate that’s all completely feasible. And the wonderful thing about digital technology now is that there’s no really substantial meaningful add of cost. People don’t know that the projectors sitting in these theaters are running at 144 frames a second, but they’re just showing every frame over and over and over. I’m just trying to say, well, give the projectors some new frames? It’s like brainless to make it brighter; it means you do have to spend some more in the lamphouse, but there’s a whole new era of laser projectors that’s entering the marketplace now that very few people have seen.
I witnessed it about a month ago and it’s mind-boggling. [Emphasis added.]The quality of image that we can project on screens with laser projectors is incredible color gamut, absolutely even field of light, very bright, very big, and when I increase the frame rate, it’s going to be like a window. So it’s a movie that’s more like a live show, and I want to see what that’s going to be like. I think it’s going to be really fun.

Obviously, this has nothing to do with Hondo but the future of "movies". And I do regret the 3D version of Hondo wasn't released and that the late Michael Wayne's wife is having issues of some kind, from your prior posts. Perhaps there is another avenue of communication available, i.e., via the studio itself. And how does Paramount end up with a Warner's film (because the rights are Wayne's)? And if any real insiders have seen this new technology, I'd be interested to hear. (Shut up Penton! An inside joke I just learned...)

 

[Todd J Moore]

I personally thought CAPTAIN AMERICA looked pretty good. Then again, it looked like director Joe Johnson composed the shots for 3D, even though the movie was converted. THE AVENGERS looked okay, but not as good. BEAUTY AND THE BEAST and the two TOY STORY movies looked really good, too. Didn't see TITANIC because the trailers didn't look that hot. STAR WARS was a major disappointment.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Leonard addresses the issues with the HONDO commentary in this article.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/leonardmaltin/hollywoods-first-3-d-revolution#

 

[Robert Crawford]

Amazon is currently seling this title for $12.99 Also, The Horse Soldiers for $8.49 and The Comancheros for $9.99 at Amazon.






Crawdaddy

 

[ShellOilJunior]

Deep Discount has their bi-annual sale going on. You'd have to wait until it's not a pre-order but it may be had for about $10.75.
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