A Few Words About A few words about...™ High Noon -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Robert Crawford /t/322358/a-few-words-about-high-noon-in-blu-ray/30#post_3951016
Well, I'm not going to get into a long drawn out discussion on what Paramount does with their profits as I have no knowledge of it and neither do any of you.

Well we sure know it never went on giving High Noon loving care and attention, that much knowledge we do have.

 

[Robert Crawford]

HT enthusiasts, who happen to be classic film buffs will always be shortchanged when it comes to home video. Circumstances, business models, and people in charge of those business models will always intervene in our enjoyement of our beloved hobby. I don't like it, but it's the reality of the world we live in and how it affects us as home video consumers.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by FoxyMulder /t/322358/a-few-words-about-high-noon-in-blu-ray/60#post_3951022

Well we sure know it never went on giving High Noon loving care and attention, that much knowledge we do have.

Sadly, that's true, but that's the way it is.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Originally Posted by FoxyMulder /t/322358/a-few-words-about-high-noon-in-blu-ray/60#post_3951022

Well we sure know it never went on giving High Noon loving care and attention, that much knowledge we do have.

Well, they did spend money on it - in 2008. But now, that was "ages ago" in standards for home theater. Basically, the studios have been remastering their films every 5-10 years to try and keep up with technology, and every time they do it's supposed to be the last time....

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway /t/322358/a-few-words-about-high-noon-in-blu-ray/60#post_3951030


Well, they did spend money on it - in 2008. But now, that was "ages ago" in standards for home theater. Basically, the studios have been remastering their films every 5-10 years to try and keep up with technology, and every time they do it's supposed to be the last time....

Maybe something went wrong at the encoding stage then since a 2008 film scan should still look good.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Here is an interesting article that some of you will have major heartburn with on some points made in the article. Obviously, opinions on how certain BR releases look will vary among us. I find The Quiet Man comment from a Paramount official interesting because it would probably be their same response to the complaints about High Noon.




Crawdaddy

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Robert Crawford /t/322358/a-few-words-about-high-noon-in-blu-ray/60#post_3951038
Here is an interesting article that some of you will have major heartburn with on some points made in the article. Obviously, opinions on how certain BR releases look will vary among us. I find The Quiet Man comment from a Paramount official interesting because it would probably be their same response to the complaints about High Noon.




Crawdaddy

I left them a nice polite comment and invited them over here to participate in the thread.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by FoxyMulder /t/322358/a-few-words-about-high-noon-in-blu-ray/60#post_3951047

I left them a nice polite comment and invited them over here to participate in the thread.

You left who an invite?

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Robert Crawford /t/322358/a-few-words-about-high-noon-in-blu-ray/60#post_3951049
You left who an invite?

Whoever wrote the post and whoever reads the comment.

 

[Ruz-El]

Disappointed to read this since my pre-order has already shipped. since despite it's flaws it is an improvement on the 2-Disc DVD I'll keep it since I also snuck it at a bottom basement price. That said, I'm thinking of canceling my Johnny Guitar/Rio Grande pre-orders until we find out exactly what Olive is shipping.

Thanks for taking the time once again to offer your opinions Mr. Harris.

 

[JParker]

Well, I'm not going to get into a long drawn out discussion on what Paramount does with their profits as I have no knowledge of it and neither do any of you. 

A reasonable question, for which I've run a quick budget.
A full 4k scan and digital clean-up and repair, WITH a record out to a new 35mm archival negative and check print, and inclusive of an HD master, would run, at my cost, under $150,000.  That would be inclusive of archival data files.
And yes, it would be Paramount, Viacom, or whomever, that should be covering that cost.  Not Olive, which only holds a limited license.
That investment would cover the studio world-wide in each and every format in perpetuity.
The embarrassment, is NOT making that investment for a film like High Noon.
Let me be as simplistic as possible.
If the studio would like to sell me the copyright, and all elements, the first thing that I'd do, and I'd guarantee that it would be done immediately, would be to to find the money to do just that.
Day ONE!
By the way, if one really wanted to scrimp in the budget, one could hold the data files, and allow the film to bring in some income before recording back out to 35mm as a 4k archival element.  If that were to occur, the budget would come down to an immediate cost of 110k, which is still inclusive of my standard 5% contingency.
Food for thought?
RAH

Excellent information, thank you Mr. H.
Someone at Paramount made a decision that it would be more profitable -- and they are a business after all -- to license such films instead of releasing them themselves. I don't know the facts on how that decision was made. Yet to me, $150,000.00 (in fiscal year 2012) is not significant but perhaps they ran projections on volume of units sold (of High Noon) and decided it would not be worth the cost.
However, Blu-ray is a high end format. I think for all its flaws the DVD of High Noon will be adequate and I won't purchase the Blu-ray because the quality is not equal to All About Eve, for example.
All that can be done is for consumers to contact both Paramount and Olive and politely point out that we would appreciate higher quality product.
Now, certainly it's magnificent news that Lawrence of Arabia will become the Blu-ray gold standard. And perhaps the elements for The Quiet Man, not being 70mm, condition, etc. are not at all comparable. Be that as it may, if a quality restoration was done, I'd love to purchase something like the Collector's Edition of Lawrence.
What I don't know is if someone who restores films contacted Olive, would they be receptive to elevate to Paramount? Will sales figures on these releases be below projections.
As to shareholders of Viacom, the parent corporation for what it's worth Bank of America has a decent sized equity stake. All this information is public and freely accessible:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=VIA+Major+Holders
http://www.viacom.com/investorrelations/Pages/secfilings.aspx
Note there are issues, hence the penny pinching...note most recent report is 2008.
http://www.viacom.com/news/News_Docs/78157ACL.PDF

2008 Restructuring
To better align our organization and cost structure with current economic conditions, we undertook a strategic
review of our businesses in the fourth quarter of 2008 which resulted in a reduction in our workforce by 890
positions and write-downs of certain programming and other assets. These actions resulted in aggregate pre-tax
restructuring and other charges of $454 million, of which approximately $80 million relates to severance actions
and the remainder relates primarily to the write-down of programming and other assets. See Note 15 to the
Consolidated Financial Statements for additional information.
Corporate

We Must Respond to and Capitalize on Rapid Changes in Consumer Behavior Resulting from New
Technologies and Distribution Platforms in Order to Remain Competitive and Exploit New Opportunities
Technology in the online and mobile arenas continues to evolve rapidly. We must adapt to changing consumer
behavior driven by technological advances such as the direct connection of television to the Internet, high
definition (Blu-ray) packaged media, video-on-demand, increased mobility of content and a desire for more short
form, user-generated and interactive content. Changing consumer behavior may impact our traditional
distribution methods, for example, by reducing viewership of our programming, the demand for DVD product or
pay television subscriptions and/or the desire to see motion pictures in theaters. The domestic DVD market has
softened recently, particularly in the second half of 2008. This trend may continue in 2009, and continued
declines may adversely affect our home entertainment revenues and profitability. In addition, consumers are
increasingly viewing content from the Internet on their televisions and on handheld or portable devices, and
watching it on a time-delayed basis. We must continue to adapt our content to these viewership habits.
Technologies which enable users to fast-forward or skip advertisements may affect the attractiveness of our
offerings to advertisers and could therefore adversely affect our revenues. If we cannot adapt to the changing
lifestyles and preferences of our target audiences and capitalize on technological advances with favorable
business models, there could be a negative effect on our business.
The Separation from CBS Corporation
On December 31, 2005, we became a stand-alone public company in connection with our separation from the
former Viacom Inc. (“Former Viacom”), which is now known as CBS Corporation. In accordance with the terms
of the Separation Agreement, as more fully described below, in December 2005 we paid a preliminary special
dividend to Former Viacom of $5.400 billion. In 2006 and 2007, we made further payments of $206 million and
$170 million, respectively, to CBS Corporation in final resolution of the adjustments.

Interesting data on CBS. Balance sheet may be problematic. Some honest assessments on the issues and challenges faced.
Profit is great, most of us work we know the labor we provide must be of value; I think profit for these films would increase with a nominal investment. If $150,000 would throw High Noon into a loss, why would it throw a far more popular title such as Quiet Man into one? What can any of us do? "What we have here is a failure to communicate..."
However, unlike Amazon customer service, we see that Olive and Paramount don't respond to communication from customers.
Foxy, do you have sales figures on these Blu-rays?

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by JParker /img/forum/go_quote.gif


Excellent information, thank you Mr. H.
Someone at Paramount made a decision that it would be more profitable -- and they are a business after all -- to license such films instead of releasing them themselves. I don't know the facts on how that decision was made. Yet to me, $150,000.00 (in fiscal year 2012) is not significant but perhaps they ran projections on volume of units sold (of High Noon) and decided it would not be worth the cost.
However, Blu-ray is a high end format. I think for all its flaws the DVD of High Noon will be adequate and I won't purchase the Blu-ray because the quality is not equal to All About Eve, for example.
All that can be done is for consumers to contact both Paramount and Olive and politely point out that we would appreciate higher quality product.
Now, certainly it's magnificent news that Lawrence of Arabia will become the Blu-ray gold standard. And perhaps the elements for The Quiet Man, not being 70mm, condition, etc. are not at all comparable. Be that as it may, if a quality restoration was done, I'd love to purchase something like the Collector's Edition of Lawrence.
What I don't know is if someone who restores films contacted Olive, would they be receptive to elevate to Paramount? Will sales figures on these releases be below projections.
As to shareholders of Viacom, the parent corporation for what it's worth Bank of America has a decent sized equity stake. All this information is public and freely accessible:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=VIA+Major+Holders
http://www.viacom.com/investorrelations/Pages/secfilings.aspx
Note there are issues, hence the penny pinching...note most recent report is 2008.
http://www.viacom.com/news/News_Docs/78157ACL.PDF
Interesting data on CBS. Balance sheet may be problematic. Some honest assessments on the issues and challenges faced.
Profit is great, most of us work we know the labor we provide must be of value; I think profit for these films would increase with a nominal investment. If $150,000 would throw High Noon into a loss, why would it throw a far more popular title such as Quiet Man into one? What can any of us do? "What we have here is a failure to communicate..."
However, unlike Amazon customer service, we see that Olive and Paramount don't respond to communication from customers.
Foxy, do you have sales figures on these Blu-rays?

I've a feeling that Olive and Paramount are aware of this discussion.



No need for anyone to do anything.



And plenty of material out there. I presume the OCN survives.



This is at UCLA:






Location:

Non-circulating SRLF archival copy



Call Number:

M22069



Library has:

9 reels of 9 (ca. 9000 ft.) : opt sd., b&w ; 35 mm. safety comp masterpos. NOTES: On reserve shelf A3-154, Spring 1996. A3-40-3



Status:

Not Checked Out



Number of Items:

1



Special Collection/Archive:

MP Motion Picture Collection











Location:

Non-circulating SRLF archival copy



Call Number:

M22749



Library has:

3 reels of 9 (r6,8,9) : b&w ; 35 mm. safety pic neg.



Status:

Not Checked Out



Number of Items:

3



Special Collection/Archive:

MP Motion Picture Collection











Location:

Non-circulating SRLF archival copy



Call Number:

M23310



Library has:

1 reel of 1 ; 35 mm. safety preprint. PART/ELEMENT: 3 misc. rolls.



Status:

Not Checked Out



Number of Items:

1



Special Collection/Archive:

MP Motion Picture Collection











Location:

Non-circulating SRLF archival copy



Call Number:

M22211



Library has:

1 reel of 1 (ca. 1000 ft.) ; 35 mm. safety pic neg. PART/ELEMENT: New main titles without United Artists logo.



Status:

Not Checked Out



Number of Items:

1



Special Collection/Archive:

MP Motion Picture Collection











Location:

Non-circulating SRLF archival copy



Call Number:

M22065



Library has:

9 reels of 9 (ca. 9000 ft.) : opt sd. ; 35 mm. safety trk neg. PART/ELEMENT: Music and effects.



Status:

Not Checked Out



Number of Items:

9



Special Collection/Archive:

MP Motion Picture Collection






RAH

 

[Robert Crawford]

Paramount's response, it's not our film. It is now.

 

[JParker]

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/322358/a-few-words-about-high-noon-in-blu-ray/60#post_3951270

I've a feeling that Olive and Paramount are aware of this discussion.
No need for anyone to do anything.
And plenty of material out there. I presume the OCN survives.

Thank you, Mr. H. (if I quote your reply by using the buttons, it's a mess with font coding etc.!)
Mr. H, then perhaps we have cause for optimism. Then, you can't say if you or your agent has been contacted? It would be great news if you become involved. Sales figures for High Noon seem good via Amazon as of this minute:

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #265 in Movies & TV (See Top 100 in Movies & TV)

It appears that Paramount films ownership are retained by Viacom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramount_Pictures#Post-1950_rights_changes
But perhaps the Olive deal was due to financial pressures, which perhaps now are ameliorated?
In any event, to submit via the Olive website a suggestion for a high quality scan of the UCLA elements wouldn't be necessary? I already did, a long time ago, with links to your post from the Hondo thread. Again, no reply, but it would be great if they elevated it to management, which may be limited in what they can do.
Keep us posted.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by JParker /t/322358/a-few-words-about-high-noon-in-blu-ray/60#post_3951283
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/322358/a-few-words-about-high-noon-in-blu-ray/60#post_3951270
Thank you, Mr. H. (if I quote your reply by using the buttons, it's a mess with font coding etc.!)
Mr. H, then perhaps we have cause for optimism. Then, you can't say if you or your agent has been contacted? It would be great news if you become involved. Sales figures for High Noon seem good via Amazon as of this minute:
It appears that Paramount films ownership are retained by Viacom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramount_Pictures#Post-1950_rights_changes
But perhaps the Olive deal was due to financial pressures, which perhaps now are ameliorated?
In any event, to submit via the Olive website a suggestion for a high quality scan of the UCLA elements wouldn't be necessary? I already did, a long time ago, with links to your post from the Hondo thread. Again, no reply, but it would be great if they elevated it to management, which may be limited in what they can do.
Keep us posted.

I'm aware of who owns what.

You're over-thinking this.

They own it.

They aren't interested in saving it properly.

Easy.

RAH

 

[JParker]

I'm aware of who owns what.
You're over-thinking this.
They own it.
They aren't interested in saving it properly.
Easy.
RAH

Uh oh...I thought when you said

I've a feeling that Olive and Paramount are aware of this discussion.
No need for anyone to do anything.

...there was cause for celebration. Now this...
Well, then, it is what it is. If neither Paramount nor Olive releases a top quality Blu-ray, neither do they compel us to purchase their products, and we can then save our money for worthier efforts, such as Lawrence of Arabia Collector's Edition, which no doubt every reader here will wholeheartedly support.
But if The Quiet Man is an inferior Blu-ray release, I and many others will be terribly disappointed, to say the least!
Too bad Warner Brothers didn't release these classic titles, if what you just posted is true, which I trust (and my understanding of it). On the other hand, perhaps their hands would have been tied.
This is really sad!
No wonder they don't care if the 3D lens is left on in theaters when they return to a 2D film (vide Roger Ebert's blog)!

 

[Brandon Conway]

In short, if Paramount really treasured the titles in the Republic Library highly then they wouldn't continually license them out.

Olive is at least keen on presenting them nicely, if somewhat flawed per the views of the high end user. Lionsgate on the other hand did nothing with them.

If I had the choice, I'd rather have nice but imperfect releases from Olive than no released at all. But maybe that's just me, and I have few other expensive hobbies, so I perhaps don't need to be as picky with the titles I pick up for financial reasons.

It's just that we know from experience that a) Paramount doesn't want to use the Republic Library (sans It's a Wonderful Life - another "static grain" BD release, BTW) for anything other than asset value, and b) Lionsgate didn't bother to release more than a trifling when they had them licensed, and c) most of the older Republic/Artisan DVD releases pre-Paramount purchase were in truly terrible conditions.

It's Olive's releases or no releases. Sometimes the high mark is ideal, but other times I just want to watch a damn movie even if it's "just" nice.

(Others are of course free to disagree, or only watch content rated by RH as a 4-5/5, or look for international releases, etc., etc.)

 

[JParker]

In short, if Paramount really treasured the titles in the Republic Library highly then they wouldn't continually license them out.
Olive is at least keen on presenting them nicely, if somewhat flawed per the views of the high end user. Lionsgate on the other hand did nothing with them.
If I had the choice, I'd rather have nice but imperfect releases from Olive than no released at all. But maybe that's just me, and I have few other expensive hobbies, so I perhaps don't need to be as picky with the titles I pick up for financial reasons.
It's just that we know from experience that a) Paramount doesn't want to use the Republic Library (sans It's a Wonderful Life - another "static grain" BD release, BTW) for anything other than asset value, and b) Lionsgate didn't bother to release more than a trifling when they had them licensed, and c) most of the older Republic/Artisan DVD releases pre-Paramount purchase were in truly terrible conditions.
It's Olive's releases or no releases. Sometimes the high mark is ideal, but other times I just want to watch a damn movie even if it's "just" nice.
(Others are of course free to disagree, or only watch content rated by RH as a 4-5/5, or look for international releases, etc., etc.)

My posts above indicate perhaps Paramount needed ready cash; then again, who knows?
But is the image superior to an upconverted DVD on a 50 inch display?
And what about Fox's recent releases? Has anyone seen the Blu-ray of Grapes of Wrath?
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Grapes-of-Wrath-Blu-ray/12449/#Review
Is it equal to All About Eve?
The Olive release of The Quiet Man will no doubt be better than the Artisan DVD but if it's not the 4K scan discussed, then we have all lost a great deal, and it won't reflect well on the parties involved. Again, rather sad, it will affect revenue, word gets around...
Unless you indicate on smaller displays it looks OK? The digital processing is problematic, I suspect it will be noticeable.
Thanks, Brandon.

 

[Brandon Conway]

Originally Posted by JParker /t/322358/a-few-words-about-high-noon-in-blu-ray/60#post_3951313
My posts above indicate perhaps Paramount needed ready cash; then again, who knows?
But is the image superior to an upconverted DVD on a 50 inch display?
And what about Fox's recent releases? Has anyone seen the Blu-ray of Grapes of Wrath?
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Grapes-of-Wrath-Blu-ray/12449/#Review
Is it equal to All About Eve?
The Olive release of The Quiet Man will no doubt be better than the Artisan DVD but if it's not the 4K scan discussed, then we have all lost a great deal, and it won't reflect well on the parties involved. Again, rather sad, it will affect revenue, word gets around...
Unless you indicate on smaller displays it looks OK? The digital processing is problematic, I suspect it will be noticeable.
Thanks, Brandon.

Well, there's probably a reason Paramount took the up front licensing fee for the Republic Catalog from Olive rather than try to profit on the films through their own individual releases. one kinda has to think of these 3rd party licensing companies (Criterion aside) as extensions of MOD programs. It's fairly rare that they get such prestige titles as Olive has got from the Republic library, but that's the oddity of how Paramount handles that group of films.

As far as needing ready cash, often studios will pick up film catalogs only to show their inherent value on the books; in other words, their value as owned assets are their only real concern and not so much in bringing them to the public on home video or other home viewing services. With how Paramount has handled the Republic Library after they acquired it, and considering quotes like "It's not even our film", this seems to be the primary reasoning for this purchase by the top financial brass. At least that's the perception.

I only have the really old Artisan DVD of High Noon which was pretty awful by today's standards, so I'm afraid I can't compare the new Blu-ray with the SE DVD released by Lionsgate in 2008, small monitor or otherwise. I suspect the 2008 DVD and this release use the same source.

I've read nothing but positive things about The Grapes of Wrath on Blu-ray. Now that it's more readily available perhaps Mr. Harris will take a peak at it in the future.

 

[ackbak]

I would like to meet Paramount... At high noon...
This is just too bad. I was looking forward to adding this to my collection, but will either just rent it, or wait for the $5 used or bargin bin copy.
One of my fathers all-time favorite movies and I grew up as a lad watching it with him every couple of years.
Would have been nice if they would have done this right.
Thank your RAH for your impressions of the film. Frozen/crawling grain (reminds me of some of the Paramount Star Trek releases) is not my thing...