A Few Words About A few words about...™ Heaven's Gate -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Vincent_P]

Okay I had to check my many copies of various versions of the film, but I've just confirmed that the original 70mm print screened last night contains footage that's not in any other versions of HEAVEN'S GATE- not the original VHS release, not the John Kirk restoration, not the Criterion Blu-ray, not the short cut- literally, that 70mm print premiere print has footage that's completely unique to it. It's a completely unique cut of the film, and I hope it's somehow preserved for posterity as such.

EDIT: And I'm not jut talking about the "freeze frame" ending. There are additional shots and dialogue during the "baseball" sequence ("I bet he's a fan of the game!"), and the shot of Averill on his boat when it first cuts to the "coda" is a completely different take (on all other versions that have the "Newport 1903" text overlay, the shot starts with Averill's back to the camera walking away- on the 70mm print, the shot starts with Averill facing the camera, then he turns around and starts to walk away before it cuts to the single process shot in the film), and I'm also pretty sure there were numerous additional shots during the battle sequence, as well.

Vincent

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

Peter, I wonder if your "incorrect" memory re: the imigrants' subtitles was due to the fact that the premiere print lacks all the intertitles? I can see how a virgin audience would be confused by the time/location changes in the film without them, especially the coda on the boat (in fact, last night I had to clarify the coda to a confused member of the audience who had never seen the film before). Vincent

That's possible, though the reason I didn't think there were subtitles for the dialog was that when Siskel & Ebert reviewed the cut version, they made specific mention of the subtitles and I was wondering what they meant since I didn't remember them from the 70mm version. I can only guess I was caught up in the film and never noticed them.I hope this print makes it way to the AMMI or other 70mm venue in NYC.

 

[davidmatychuk]

Here's something of interest, from long-time Steven Soderbergh "associate" Mary Ann Bernard:

http://extension765.com/sdr/16-heavens-gate-the-butchers-cut

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Finally a watchable version of Heaven's Gate.

 

[Vincent_P]

Finally a watchable version of Heaven's Gate.

Thanks for your incredibly helpful reply to this thread!

Vincent

 

[JoshZ]

Here's something of interest, from long-time Steven Soderbergh "associate" Mary Ann Bernard:

http://extension765.com/sdr/16-heavens-gate-the-butchers-cut

I don't have time to watch this right now. I take it that Soderbergh edited a short version of the movie for himself, using the Bernard alias?

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Thanks for your incredibly helpful reply to this thread! Vincent

I was commenting on the merits of a relevant link another member posted, I would consider that very helpful.

 

[davidmatychuk]

I don't have time to watch this right now. I take it that Soderbergh edited a short version of the movie for himself, using the Bernard alias?

Yes. His lawyer alter ego couldn't see the harm.

 

[JoshZ]

Has anyone sat through it yet? How is it? The movie has a ton of repetition and bloat that begs to be trimmed.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

I skipped through it - the editor basically made "The Johnson County Wars", which was the title they were going to give to a (never made, IIRC) third, even shorter, version of the film in 1981/82. Scenes are out of order and the Harvard beginning is now at the end. It's in-artful, but an interesting experiment from someone who had a LOT of time on their hands.

 

[JoshZ]

I skipped through it - the editor basically made "The Johnson County Wars", which was the title they were going to give to a (never made, IIRC) third, even shorter, version of the film in 1981/82. Scenes are out of order and the Harvard beginning is now at the end. It's in-artful, but an interesting experiment from someone who had a LOT of time on their hands.

I would imagine that scenes are only "out of order" in the context of being compared to Cimino's cut. Rearranging the placement of scenes is something that any editor may do if he/she feels it will work better.

At the very least, this sounds like an interesting intellectual experiment from someone who's a fan of the film but acknowledges its flaws. And yes, I'm sure that Soderbergh has a lot of free time on his hands since he retired from feature filmmaking.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

He actually put this together in 2006.I watched the first 20 minutes of it and thought it really worked for me as a film for the first time.You have the beauty of the photography but now the story had drive and pace. I had planned to just watch a couple minutes and got sucked into it. I plan to watch it all as soon as I can spare the time. But, legitimately this just goes to show how great a storyteller Soderbergh is. He regularly advises people under the table about editing their films.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

And yes, I'm sure that Soderbergh has a lot of free time on his hands since he retired from feature filmmaking.

He just directed a play in NY called "The Library" - I really enjoyed it. Wouldn't mind seeing some more theatre from him after that.

 

[Robin9]

I watched The Agony And The Ecstasy this evening for the first time in many years. (I've been sitting on the Blu-ray disc for months, waiting for the right mood for this superb but unusual film)

Until tonight I believed that part of Michael Cimino's rampant egomania while preparing and making Heaven's Gate was a desire to be a second David Lean. Not just in building huge sets (as with Dr. Zhivago and Ryan's Daughter), not just in taking extraordinary care to ensure every detail was perfect, and not just in working at a slow pace but also in having a fractious relationship with an unsympathetic producer (as Lean had with Sam Spiegel)

I haven't changed my mind, but my guess is also that Michael Cimino had seen The Agony And The Ecstasy, had been greatly impressed and saw himself as following in the tradition of Michelangelo in taking as long as necessary to produce a great work of art, regardless of the anguish that caused the paymaster. ("When will you make an end of it?" - "When I have finished.")

 

[Hollywoodaholic]

The 'Ecstasy' apparently came from the allegedly reported* $300,000 spent on cocaine during the making of Cimino's film.

*Final Cut

 

[Bob Cashill]

HG was hardly alone in that excess.Carol Reed was a beloved veteran filmmaker adapting a famed bestseller, so allowances were made; Cimino was not, and was punished for his alleged hubris.

 

[Vincent_P]

The 'Ecstasy' apparently came from the allegedly reported* $300,000 spent on cocaine during the making of Cimino's film.

*Final Cut

I've read FINAL CUT several times and have never seen this figure you've quoted. Bach does make a brief remark along the lines that "for the predicable few, not all the highs were from the scenery" but that's all that I can recall in that book.

Vincent

 

[Bob Cashill]

I think it's high time to retire Final Cut as the last word on Heaven's Gate. While a fascinating read its perspective on the film is of course skewed, and predates decades worth of reconsideration.

 

[bruceames]

I just read Final Cut a few months ago. Very interesting read, but you could tell there was a lot of bias against the movie, and the final production costs of around $44 million was not so out of line as to blame the demise of a studio on it (the way the author goes on and on about excessive costs you'd think it ended up costing over $100 million). There were other flops during that same year with similar costs (Lion of the Desert, Raise the Titanic), but Heaven's Gate gets all the infamy as the press exaggerated everything to mythical proportions, to the point where even today the perception holds up. I just wish I liked the movie more.

 

[Robin9]

I think it's high time to retire Final Cut as the last word on Heaven's Gate. While a fascinating read its perspective on the film is of course skewed, and predates decades worth of reconsideration.

I disagree. Final Cut remains a valuable document providing essential information about the making of this film. Those decades of reconsideration have been about the film, not about the accuracy of Mr. Bach's book.