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A Few Words About A few words about...™ Erin Brockovich -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

Scott Calvert

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2K or 4K both have the potential to look just fine on BD. That's great that they did a new scan but what's the point when they send it through the digital grinder and it ends up looking no different than one of their old transfers that have been sent through the digital grinder?
Steven Soderbergh approved it? Ok. I guess he approved 100 other Universal BDs too as thay all look pretty much the same. Whenever I hear of the director "approvals" I always take it with a grain of salt. I don't doubt they approved of something, but what, when, and under what circumstances I dunno. Furthermore, for some directors I know that scrutizing video transfers of prior films with a fine tooth comb is probably not the highest priority...I imagine a brief check to make sure the the very basics are taken care of like the color looks OK and the aspect ratio is correct is all they really bother with, then it's back to focusing on their current project.
 

Yorkshire

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Robert Harris said:
Let's be clear.  Mr. Soderbergh was involved in reviewing the color and stylized look.  I have no idea what the viewed, but as a cinematographer, I presume he would be sensitive to an overall electronic look.
RAH
So you're pretty sure he signed off what we see on the disc?
Sorry, just wanting to be clear.
Steve W
 

Yorkshire

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Scott Calvert said:
2K or 4K both have the potential to look just fine on BD. That's great that they did a new scan but what's the point when they send it through the digital grinder and it ends up looking no different than one of their old transfers that have been sent through the digital grinder?
Steven Soderbergh approved it? Ok. I guess he approved 100 other Universal BDs too as thay all look pretty much the same. Whenever I hear of the director "approvals" I always take it with a grain of salt. I don't doubt they approved of something, but what, when, and under what circumstances I dunno. Furthermore, for some directors I know that scrutizing video transfers of prior films with a fine tooth comb is probably not the highest priority...I imagine a brief check to make sure the the very basics are taken care of like the color looks OK and the aspect ratio is correct is all they really bother with, then it's back to focusing on their current project.
Scott, I wouldn't disagree.
But the implication of that is that they think that brief once-over is good enough.
If the director thinks it's good enough...
Steve W
 

OliverK

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Yorkshire said:
If the director thinks it's good enough...
Steve W
Your line of thinking would mean that we all should also be happy with what Friedkin did with The French Connection and also with the changes Lucas did to Star Wars or do you have certain thresholds that shouldn't be passed so that while eliminating the grain and sharpening is OK other changes aren't?
Going back to Erin Brockovich it looked like film as it was shot on film and I would like the Blu-Ray to reproduce this look even when the director approves the degrained and sharpened look it has now.
In the end Universal and Soderbergh can make it look as ugly and sharpened as they want but I can also decide not to buy it as I will never support this kind of release strategy.
And I would like to add that I think that Mr. Soderbergh made a lot of very good movies and I would prefer to think that he did not see the final product and either did not approve anything or only some previous stage that did not yet have the grain destroyed and what remained sharpened. Maybe he even saw it on some small monitor to check for correct color balance and different stuff than the textures that are negatively affected here.
 

Yorkshire

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OliverK said:
Your line of thinking would mean that we all should also be happy with what Friedkin did with The French Connection and also with the changes Lucas did to Star Wars...
You make a fair point. I also think it's a fair point to say that Friedkin and Lucas have every right to do with their work whatever they like.
If you don't like what they've done, as a matter of taste, then that's not an issue. Don't buy the releases and say they're not to your taste. Fair play.
But that's quite different to saying the director is 'wrong', or the release is 'bad', or that they 'don't care'.
Taste and quality are two different things.
Steve W
 

OliverK

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Yorkshire said:
You make a fair point. I also think it's a fair point to say that Friedkin and Lucas have every right to do with their work whatever they like.
If you don't like what they've done, as a matter of taste, then that's not an issue. Don't buy the releases and say they're not to your taste. Fair play.
But that's quite different to saying the director is 'wrong', or the release is 'bad', or that they 'don't care'.
Taste and quality are two different things.
Steve W
Thanks for the nice discussion, I wish it could always be so respectful. I still think that is it OK to voice my displeasure about how certain titles are treated and indeed I think that there are right and wrong ways to release movies on Blu-Ray and I am aware that others do have other standards than I have (certainly some important people at Universal do).
It is interesting that you call the ideal of being reasonably faithful to the original theatrical version of a movie and its look a matter of taste but this is probably exactly the mindest that many people have these days. Personally I find it very troubling.
 

OliverK

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Robert Harris said:
They do read the forums.  
If they do read the forums and what most forum users think of what they do then I wonder why they do not change their approach?
After all what would be the purpose to read the forums and continue what they do?
I would love to buy a properly produced Hitchcock box from Universal but at the present time the chances that this will be happening are extremely low.
 

Robert Crawford

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Originally Posted by OliverK /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray#post_3938367
If they do read the forums and what most forum users think of what they do then I wonder why they do not change their approach?
After all what would be the purpose to read the forums and continue what they do?
I would love to buy a properly produced Hitchcock box from Universal but at the present time the chances that this will be happening are extremely low.

Perhaps because it doesn't improve their business case to do so.
 

Yorkshire

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OliverK said:
Thanks for the nice discussion, I wish it could always be so respectful. I still think that is it OK to voice my displeasure about how certain titles are treated and indeed I think that there are right and wrong ways to release movies on Blu-Ray and I am aware that others do have other standards than I have (certainly some important people at Universal do).
It is interesting that you call the ideal of being reasonably faithful to the original theatrical version of a movie and its look a matter of taste but this is probably exactly the mindest that many people have these days. Personally I find it very troubling.
Oliver, you've misunderstood my position.
My position is not that "...being reasonably faithful to the original theatrical version of a movie and its look a matter of taste".
My position is that a director will have a vision for how a film looks, and may even have a different vision for a home release, and that is up to them.
Whether you or I like that, or want to buy that, is a matter of taste, and should be expressed as such.
Talking about the director being 'wrong', or implying people have 'low standards' if they do not accept this is what I find troubling.
Some people appear to be setting themselves up as the arbiters of everyone's taste - and if a director doesn't share that view then the director is wrong.
I find that incredibly troubling.
To clarify, the moment I hear that this release isn't what SS wanted it to look like, then I'm against it. But at the moment it appears to be what he wants, and it's not my place to criticisehim for that.
I fear that some people are moving to a frame of mind where only one particular 'look' is acceptable, and that any director who films with a different style, or any home cinema release which doesn't conform to this style, is derided. This is not only insulting to directors, but ignorant of cinema. It stations the 'look' of a film at the very pinnacle of its attributes above all else, to the complete denigration of all other aspects of a film's qualities.
When people say they refuse to buy a release because it doesn't conform to their narrow view of what a 'film-like look' should be, irrespective of the wonderful screenplay, acting, editing, and other aspects of cinematography (such as framing), it makes me want to weep. When some people claim this means they have 'higher standards' and that not watching such releases means they love film more, it makes me very angry.
Steve W
 

FoxyMulder

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[COLOR=#ff0000 said:
What makes me slightly annoyed ( and no more ) is when people say to me that the release is better than the DVD version and is therefore acceptable to buy on Blu ray even if it has edge enhancement, de-graining and other issues, the argument they sometimes use is that the screenplay is great, the acting is great, the direction is superb etc etc, they then go on to use ]
 

OliverK

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Yorkshire said:
Oliver, you've misunderstood my position.
My position is not that "...being reasonably faithful to the original theatrical version of a movie and its look a matter of taste".
My position is that a director will have a vision for how a film looks, and may even have a different vision for a home release, and that is up to them.
Whether you or I like that, or want to buy that, is a matter of taste, and should be expressed as such.
Talking about the director being 'wrong', or implying people have 'low standards' if they do not accept this is what I find troubling.
Some people appear to be setting themselves up as the arbiters of everyone's taste - and if a director doesn't share that view then the director is wrong.
I find that incredibly troubling.
To clarify, the moment I hear that this release isn't what SS wanted it to look like, then I'm against it. But at the moment it appears to be what he wants, and it's not my place to criticisehim for that.
I fear that some people are moving to a frame of mind where only one particular 'look' is acceptable, and that any director who films with a different style, or any home cinema release which doesn't conform to this style, is derided. This is not only insulting to directors, but ignorant of cinema. It stations the 'look' of a film at the very pinnacle of its attributes above all else, to the complete denigration of all other aspects of a film's qualities.
When people say they refuse to buy a release because it doesn't conform to their narrow view of what a 'film-like look' should be, irrespective of the wonderful screenplay, acting, editing, and other aspects of cinematography (such as framing), it makes me want to weep. When some people claim this means they have 'higher standards' and that not watching such releases means they love film more, it makes me very angry.
Steve W
Stewe I think you are wrong on most accounts here and caught in circular arguments. Also it seems to me that you are not even addressing me anymore but instead you are building up some imagined crusader of the "film-like-look" who tells directors how to shoot their movies which clearly I never said so you should probably address the person who really wrote that and not me.
With the situation being as it is I am ending this discussion from my side as there are no absolute truths in this anyway and I have said what I wanted.
 

Mark-P

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I think Universal is probably trying (and failing) to deliver a product that appeals to both consumers who love the film-texture look and consumers who prefer the HD look. And I fear that the majority prefer their Blu-rays "scrubbed" and shiny.
 

Brandon Conway

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Soderbergh has historically been very involved with the home video editions of his films. While it may be to the angst of some, I generally side with the filmmaker, with the same reasoning as Steve. That doesn't mean I have to like it (from Chaplin's 1942 re-cut of The Gold Rush to the go-to Lucas or Storaro examples), but I think it's wholly necessary to do so.

This is especially true with someone who is both director and cinematographer like Soderbergh, who - let us not forget - shot the quite awfully digital looking Full Frontal. He may simply like that type of gloss.

EDIT: It would be great if other publishers revealed their process for the source of their video and audio like Criterion does in liner notes, but that just isn't gonna happen.
 

davidmatychuk

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I'm sure all the reviews put together of "Erin Brockovich" when it was in theaters ever fussed anywhere near this much about the quality of the image on the screen. What a fun hobby!
 

Scott Calvert

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davidmatychuk said:
I'm sure all the reviews put together of "Erin Brockovich" when it was in theaters ever fussed anywhere near this much about the quality of the image on the screen. What a fun hobby!
This is a bluray discussion board, this is the place where bluray transfers are discussed. Maybe you're in the wrong place?
 

cafink

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davidmatychuk said:
I'm sure all the reviews put together of "Erin Brockovich" when it was in theaters ever fussed anywhere near this much about the quality of the image on the screen. What a fun hobby!
If you want to talk about movies without regard for the technical details of their presentation, the HTF has a separate forum area for that: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/f/13/movies-theatrical
 

Robert Harris

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Originally Posted by Brandon Conway /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray/30#post_3938527
Soderbergh has historically been very involved with the home video editions of his films. While it may be to the angst of some, I generally side with the filmmaker, with the same reasoning as Steve. That doesn't mean I have to like it (from Chaplin's 1942 re-cut of The Gold Rush to the go-to Lucas or Storaro examples), but I think it's wholly necessary to do so.

This is especially true with someone who is both director and cinematographer like Soderbergh, who - let us not forget - shot the quite awfully digital looking Full Frontal. He may simply like that type of gloss.

EDIT: It would be great if other publishers revealed their process for the source of their video and audio like Criterion does in liner notes, but that just isn't gonna happen.
Actually, Universal has been very forthcoming about how they handle the various projects.

While I may not agree with their overall philosophy, I do respect the intent.

This is not to say that I have to like the final products.

RAH
 

Brandon Conway

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Originally Posted by Robert Harris /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray/30#post_3938566
Actually, Universal has been very forthcoming about how they handle the various projects.

While I may not agree with their overall philosophy, I do respect the intent.

This is not to say that I have to like the final products.

RAH

They have been very forthcoming, and I wasn't trying to imply they haven't been. Just simply observing it would be nice to have all companies provide the information "up front", if you will, on the release itself like Criterion's liner notes as opposed to needing to rely on message boards, insider conversations, etc. I'm always quite happy when we get the latter as opposed to nothing (see: Disney, The Color of Money), but Criterion's method is surely the best and most direct.
 

Robert Harris

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Originally Posted by Brandon Conway /t/321413/a-few-words-about-erin-brockovich-in-blu-ray/30#post_3938569

They have been very forthcoming, and I wasn't trying to imply they haven't been. Just simply observing it would be nice to have all companies provide the information "up front", if you will, on the release itself like Criterion's liner notes as opposed to needing to rely on message boards, insider conversations, etc. I'm always quite happy when we get the latter as opposed to nothing (see: Disney, The Color of Money), but Criterion's method is surely the best and most direct.

Could not agree more.
 

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