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A Few Words About A few words about...™ Dial "M" for Murder (Take Two) -- in Blu-ray

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Robert Harris, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. Richard--W

    Richard--W Banned

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    DVDbeaver has posted 2-d and 3-D screen captures of Dial M For Murder:
    http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare7/dialmformurder.htm
    Be advised the 3-D screen caps do not come from this Blu-ray.
    They are anaglyph captures sourced from a Japanese VHS and the quality is awful.
    Why Gary Tooze posted them I can't imagine.
    There is no anaglyph on this blu-ray and posting such captures mis-represents what is on the blu-ray.
    The 3-D version is lightly polarized as it should be.
     
  2. Douglas R

    Douglas R Well-Known Member

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    Those anaglyph 3D captures have been on the site for some time amongst the other DVD reviews of the film. The site makes it clear that they are from the unnamed Japanese DVD.
     
  3. Richard--W

    Richard--W Banned

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    I didn't know that. I was confused when I saw the anaglyph captures.
    They are from the VHS or possibly a laser disc but NOT from a DVD.
     
  4. JamesNelson

    JamesNelson Well-Known Member

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    The anaglyphs are a conversion from the field-sequential Japanese Video High Density (VHD) version. You can read a little about VHD here.
     
  5. Bob Furmanek

    Bob Furmanek Insider
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    The anaglyphs are from a bootleg, not a legit release. I alerted Mr. Tooze to this but the images remain.
    DIAL M has never been released by WB in anaglyph, in any form.
     
  6. JamesNelson

    JamesNelson Well-Known Member

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    To be clear, the original 3-D VHD was an official commercial release in Japan, sanctioned by the studio. The anaglyph conversion from the VHD was not official, and the DVD Beaver page explicitly states in the Box Covers section that it is an "unknown bootleg" .
     
  7. Richard--W

    Richard--W Banned

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    Yeah, we get it, thank you very much.
    To be fair, I took another look at DVDbeaver and saw he identifies the anaglyph captures as coming from an "unknown bootleg."
    I hope Gary Tooze will remove them.
    I foresee consumers becoming confused and thinking the 3-D version on the Blu-ray will be anaglyph like the bootleg.
    By the way I've been watching the field-sequential version for a long time. I've always been disappointed that Warner Brothers and the other studios did not embrace the technology back in the 1990s.
    I never thought the day would come when home video technology would catch up, or that a legit 3-D version of Dial M For Murder would arrive.
     
  8. Ray H

    Ray H Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Harris, could you comment on the "ringing" which is mentioned in the Blu-ray.com review? http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Dial-M-for-Murder-3D-Blu-ray/10453/#Review
    I imagine it's the dupes you mention in your review, but I'm not overly familiar with this film. Can anyone comment on what these sections represent technically or historically to this film?
     
  9. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    The "ringing" are analogue anomalies found in dupes, as made in 1953-4, and there is no way around them.

    They looked as horrible then, as they do now.

    Duping to early separation stock, and back to camera negative, was simply way things had to be done at that time...

    if one was going to create a single strand negative, which was a necessity of the Warner Color direct positive printing process.

    RAH
     
  10. Ray H

    Ray H Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply!
     
  11. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    Update

    10/6/12



    Dial “M” for Murder, The Emperor’s New Clothes, and the problem that isn’t…



    Polite society is held in check by laws and mores. Our culture is based upon standards, and working within accepted processes toward a goal.



    Back in 1980, I made an error in the purchase of a vehicle that had not been properly designed, but rather, merely placed on the market because of a presumed need – in this case, the cost of fuel.



    Its name was Ralph, and it was a full-size Buick station wagon, propelled by a diesel engine. It took forever to warm up, and under acceleration, it belched miles of blackish blue smoke – almost enough to slow following traffic, in search of clear vision.



    Based upon a generic GM V-8, it was an automotive version of Dr. Frankenstein's monster, and one of those things that I couldn’t wait to unload.



    I know. You’re wondering what this has to do with an almost 60 year-old film by Alfred Hitchcock and a naked emperor.



    Let’s take a look at Warner Home Video’s new release of Dial “M”.



    The image has been harvested from the original camera negatives. Both of them. And that harvest has been beautifully performed. Grain structure is perfect. Color has been lovingly rendered. Shadow detail is as good as might be expected for the early film stock. The image has been beautifully cleaned, without any damage to the original look of the film. And the dupes, the Achilles heel of Warner Color, are what they are. There is no way getting around them.



    Viewing the film in 2D, I found that everything worked, with a single exception. I found the image timed just a bit dark. Possibly a point or two. No big deal, as the eye readily adjusts to such things, and everything else was letter perfect.



    For 3D viewing, everything is still in place, but for a single problem. An already darkish image, even with a proper 3D setting in projection, was suddenly not a pretty picture.



    Many flat panels – especially smaller ones, may be the perfect environment for this film in 3D, with plenty of brightness and contrast available at the push of a button. But projection is another story, as there’s really nowhere to take the image above the nominal 3D settings, as established in calibration.



    Who is to blame?





    This really isn’t the fault of Warner Home Video, nor that of Warner’s MPI digital facility.



    Great scans. Beautiful color. Terrific original grain structure. Everything is correct.



    Remember earlier, I was discussing laws, and mores…



    And standards.



    I'm betting that's the problem.



    The Blu-ray standards (as set by the Blu-ray Disc Association) for the delivery of 3D software for home video, seem to cover just about everything.



    Except the ability to achieve a proper image.



    The desire to get 3D into the marketplace c. 2010, left a void between those standards, and display manufacturers.



    And I'm wondering if anyone ever took a moment to think about what they were doing.



    It wasn't bad enough that there was no standardization for shutter glasses. Not in functionality. Not in color. Purchase one set, and you end up with a green image, another a different color. And far too many are proprietary to specific sets.



    Why do the glasses need to add color, as opposed to just neutral density? I have no idea.



    The upshot of this is that what should have, and could have been a stellar release of a golden age 3D film, by a top filmmaker, doesn't work on higher end systems.







    Take a look at this:

    http://www.studiodaily.com/2012/10/digital-projection-shines-at-one-festival-screening-shuts-down-another/



    The final result of 3D projection, be it theatrical or home video, should be no different than 2D. We should not be losing more than half the illumination, forced to view images that are pretty good, just okay, or at worst, too dark to be enjoyable.



    Two projectors for home viewing?



    That is not an answer.



    I’m currently running a projected image at over 14 foot lamberts. Take a measurement through shutter glasses, and it’s down to 5 or 6. Not good.



    Could WB have done something in mastering to alleviate, or at least calm the problem? Yes. They could have created a second master, specifically for 3D, with an image more in line with the exigencies and needs of current hardware.



    The cost? Not really viable.



    But because there are no real standards, the delivery of a merely functional 3D image is considered to be just fine. It’s all we have.



    Create a 2D master. Use the same look for 3D, and the product is complete. Except that it doesn't necessary work in the real world. Many people are complaining about dim 3D imagery, but the industry behind it does not to fix the problem.



    That would mean changes in the ways that projection devices function. It might even mean the addition of a second lamp that runs during 3D films.



    Should 3D films be mastered differently than 2D, with different levels of brightness and contrast? Or should the hardware be capable of playing these images back with full resolution and brightness, if mastered as if they were to be played back in 2D?



    One or the other should change.



    Is it more light throughput?



    Or a brighter HD image as mastered?



    Without a synchronization of standards, all we have is a very chilly emperor.



    The bottom line is that in 2D, Dial “M” for Murder is a terrific experience. A bit heavy? Possibly. But no big deal. It works just fine.



    In 3D, on smaller flat panels, it can still work.



    But in projection, I’m at a loss for words.



    Image – 4 (2D)

    3 (3D) – panel display

    1.5 (3D) – projection



    Audio – 4



    Recommended in 2D and for 3D on flat panels.



    Recommended in 2D for projection.



    Not Recommended for projection in 3D.



    Note: At a street price of around $25, this disc represents a real bargain. Keep in mind that for 3D, unlike new 3D productions, the film actually needs to be scanned, colored and digitally cleaned, twice.







    RAH
     
  12. Reed Grele

    Reed Grele Well-Known Member

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    As I'm fortunate enough to have both a 65" Panasonic 3D plasma, and a Panasonic PT-AE7000 3D projector w/ 120" screen, I'll be able try it on both next week and decide which one has the most pleasing image.
    Will report back.
     
  13. Guest

    I want to get a DLP projector, but I don't want the "rainbow effect" especially during credits. Can someone name a couple of 3D DLP projectors that don't have this problem?
     
  14. Steve Tannehill

    Steve Tannehill Ambassador

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    I don't notice rainbows on my rear projection Mitsubishi WD-73838 3D DLP set or my WD-57831 from a few years ago.
     
  15. Moe Dickstein

    Moe Dickstein Filmmaker

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    May I infer that your guidance re:projection refers to front projection systems?
     
  16. Mark-P

    Mark-P Well-Known Member

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    If you are sensitive to the rainbow effect (some people aren't) then you will probably need to steer clear of any DLP projector which uses a color wheel, and that would be practically all consumer DLP projectors. The only DLPs that don't use a color wheel are three-chip DLPs and those cost tens of thousands of dollars.
     
  17. John Hermes

    John Hermes Well-Known Member

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    Try to get a projector with a 6x speed wheel. I have an Optoma with a 6x wheel and no one has ever said anything about RBE, and I've shown movies to lots of people.
     
  18. Mark-P

    Mark-P Well-Known Member

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    I've had both. My first projector was a 3 segment color wheel and my second projector was a 6 segment wheel. I could see rainbows on both projectors yet some of my friends couldn't see the rainbow effect at all. As I said, if you are sensitive to the effect, color wheel DLP probably isn't for you. My current projector is an LCD and I couldn't be happier with it.
     
  19. John Hermes

    John Hermes Well-Known Member

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    Segments and speed are different things. I like the look of DLP and 6x wheel speed solved RBE issues for me. Eric might look at the new LED or laser/LED DLP projectors as well. From what I've heard these pretty much eliminate RBE.
     
  20. Robin9

    Robin9 Well-Known Member

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    Which Optima projector is that?
     

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