A Few Words About A few words about...™ Bram Stoker's Dracula -- in BD (1 Viewer)

[Cees Alons]

As the person who closed that thread I happily join in to agree that we continue to need contributions like Dave's.

The thread was locked to concentrate the discussion about this BD's picture quality here at one spot, now some conclusive new evidence was brought forward. Not before that!

It's a shame Dave has been banned from the Blu-ray forums and of course we keep welcoming him here as a valued fellow member!


Cees

 

[Robert Harris]

Mr. Hafner is preaching to the choir.

Bram Stoker's Dracula does not fully replicate the film image, and personally I don't care.

One cannot replicate film on video. It cannot be done.

If we are, however, to shun each and every video release that does not 100% accurately replicate the film original, then we should all go home, return to collecting 35mm prints to be projected in home screening rooms, and cease all home video operations short of VHS, which has made people happy for decades.

HD and BD DVDs are an imperfect medium.

Does this mean that they should not be produced?

If I have a need to project a 35 or 70mm print, I do precisely that, as home video will occasionally not suffice or fill the precise need.

But more than 99% of the time I'm thrilled to pop a disc weighing an ounce or so into a machine a see a beautifully defined image on a 100+ inch screen. My needs are met.

Let me say it loud and clear.

THE STUDIOS ARE INCAPABLE OF REPRODUCING FILM ON VIDEO!

But it doesn't matter.

One comes as close to the cinema look as one technologically can. Our ability to do so has increased drastically over the past few years.

Even viewing data files at 2 or 4k do not replicate cinema.

In most cases the data files are far superior to a 35mm print.

How many colorists can dance on the head of pin?

We really shouldn't care.

RAH

 

[Chris S]

I deeply appreciate everyone's involvement in looking into this issue so thoroughly. It's members and discussions like these that make this forum worth visiting daily. A special thanks to both Dave Mack and Robert Harris for their views and contributions.

 

[RickER]

Mr. Harris, and Dave Mack i thank you both again for your thoughts. I had said before that usually i am the last guy to give screen grabs put on a web site the time of day. Anyone remember the Ben-Hur or Wizard of Oz threads? Or the more recent Searchers thread. I love all those movies on DVD, but some people saw things i would never lose sleep over, much less see, and i see a lot! I appreciate Mr. Harris articulating why i never liked internet/computer screen grabs even if I sure could see a difference this time on the grabs! I hope Wynona Rider still has that, um spring in her step! Anyway, i have it on the top of my NetFlix, with a purchase to follow, i hope.

 

[Dave Mack]

Mr. Harris,

I truly appreciate your review and am now VERY curious to see what others think too.
Would you also take the time to look at some of the shots in HD in the doumentaries...? They do indeed look pretty different and they did use different HD masters.
The scene with Harker meeting the "coach driver" is in the FX doc. and the shot of the coach approaching the castle is in the "visualizing" dracula doc.


Perhaps it's possible that one would really need a truly top of the line home PJ like Mr. harris has to see this accurately, (if indeed so, party at Mr. Harris' place?) My PJ is generally considered very good for it's price range. However, one day...

Thanks and as always, great to hear your impressions and thanks for a free class in film production.

dave

(I got some sleep!)

 

[Dave Mack]

Thanks, Douglas!

I admit that I was a bit over the top. I hadn't slept in 2 days, (Daddy day care, impending move back to NYC, insomnia) and getting horribly insulted and attacked in the BluRay.com forum, (and now banned) was making me a wee bit stressed.

 

[Dan M]

Well this is great news to hear and we can all breath a collective sigh of relief.

However my projector bulb has over 1500 hours and I hope I can see those superimposed diary entires!....(if they were actaully meant be seen, that is)

 

[Douglas Monce]

I have gotten this film from Netflix and I have to say that I'm not seeing anything like what Dave reported. Particularly the shot where the coach is taking Harker toward the castle. The castle is perfectly visible against the night sky and the detail of the castle is coming through fine. Also the words of Harkers journal are quite dark but they are readable.

Again I never saw this film on any other video format, but honestly I think it looks quite spectacular.

Doug

 

[Dave H]

Robert Harris,

I have really enjoyed reading your input - and it has been very educational and has really changed my perspective on the issue. Since the Dracula threads have started, I've learned something about "answer prints," as well as some of the processes which take place to transfer a film, etc. This Bram Stroker's Dracula BD release has been a great topic here and I look very forward to receiving my Blu-ray copy. Still, I have to laugh at the conspiracy theories out there.

 

[Larry Sutliff]

I have to say that this whole discussion has been one of the most interesting I've seen on the 'net in a long time. Thanks to Dave for all of his screencaps and comparisions, and to Mr. Harris for his unique and invaluable input.

 

[Dave Mack]

Just wanted to say that I watched the disc on my PS3 connected via HDMI to a Mits hc3000u DLP PJ, calibrated and which is generally considered a light cannon. No other transfer I have watched, either BD, HDdvd or SD dvd has seen unusually dark, flat, washed out looking compared to what popular opinion is.
And I am FAR from the only person who thinks the film looks too dark and flat. I'd say after reading dozens of opinions, I am in the majority.

 

[Nick Graham]

Dave, it's your projector.

Buy yourself a newer model, and then send me your current one.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Dave I guess this just comes down to a matter of personal preference. I think the film looks fantastic. I will say however what I'm seeing on my screen doesn't look like your screen shots at all.

Doug

 

[Bryan^H]

Being a big fan of this film, I can tell you without doubt, or bias that Dracula looks different than what played at my cinema. Not trying to stir up a hornets nest, or to argue the matter whatsoever. I will say the Superbit dvd comes the closest in color tone to what I watched at my local theater.

Not saying the new transfer looks bad, and it won't change the feel of the film....but it is different.

 

[Dave Mack]

edit

 

[Brandon Conway]

I think at this point it's clear that not only have previous DVD releases been an inaccurate presentation of what is on the answer print, but that previous theatrical presentations were similarly inaccurate.

Now, maybe the film doesn't win any Oscars if they went with the answer print more accurately 15 years ago, but the answer print is what it is. Whether one likes the look of the answer print is a separate issue, methinks. A lot of people don't like the shaky camera in the last two Bourne films, and a lot of people don't like the intentional grain on 300. It happens.

 

[Robert Crawford]

There is nothing wrong with you expressing your opinion that disagrees with RAH. Discussion and exchange of opinions is a good thing as long as the process of doing so is respectful to all that are participating in it.

However, with that being said, I will say once more that this is just the beginning for several future discussions that will take place with other titles not yet released on a high def. format. I expect disagreement and discussion to continue with more than a few titles as they are released on these new HD formats with slightly different coloring or other presentation issues that we either don't remember seeing in their initial theatrical run and/or prior releases on lesser video formats. Again, this goes back to some comments that RAH expressed earlier regarding the advancements and changes that have taken place with today's technical abilities versus what they were able to do years ago. Furthermore, we shouldn't forget what RAH previously stated that these optical formats cannot completely replicate our theater expriences due to a couple of variables that these optical formats cannot overcome.





Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

Dave,
Is it possible that perhaps Zoetrope wants the rest of the image to appear desaturated?





Crawdaddy

 

[Garrett Lundy]

*giggle*

 

[Dave Mack]

I completely think that's exactly it. It looks (when u watch the disc) like it was done digitally. The original film didn't seem this way. I don't think they could even do that back in 92 for film prints, without alot of work and it looking terrible.The fact that the lips remain exactly the same looking is odd. Wouldn't that have been desaturated too if they were simply dialing down the color? I mean her whole face looked basically one color in the LD and dvds. There are many scenes in the transfer that look the same. That just PARTS of the shots are desaturated while others look identical. When Lucy and Mina meet in the garden it practically looks like a B+W film now except for Lucy's hair which is BRIGHT red.