International 55 Days At Peking / Circus World U.K. Release April 7 (1 Viewer)

[OliverK]

BEN-HUR was also shown at the Empire in 70mm around about 1964 for a few weeks at the full 2.76:1 ratio. It was the complete roadshow version but shown in continuous performances. It was advertised as being the last chance to see the film on the biggest screen in Europe. Prior to that I'd only seen the film in 35mm and was amazed to see the full width.

That must have been a fantastic experience - how big was that screen?

 

[Douglas R]

That must have been a fantastic experience - how big was that screen?

Yes, I can still recall it vividly. The Empire screen in those days, following the 1962 conversion, was 60 feet wide. That screen was increased to 68 feet in 2009 for 3D (it's now closed for IMAX installation).

 

[RolandL]

Yes that is true.I would prefer to have the full aspect ratio and a 4k format - that allows people to zoom out to 2.35 or even 2.20:1 as desired without losing too much resolution. This one was originally intended for a Cinerama release that did never happen and it often looks cramped when watching it in 2.20:1.

Where did you find this information about it being intended for a Cinerama release?

 

[Alan Tully]

Yes, I can still recall it vividly. The Empire screen in those days, following the 1962 conversion, was 60 feet wide. That screen was increased to 68 feet in 2009 for 3D (it's now closed for IMAX installation).

I saw Ben-Hur at the Casino Cinerama in Old Compton Street, I think it was around 1970. All I can remember of it is how bad the model ships looked on the really big screen. I also saw The Last Valley there a few years later, stunning!

 

[john a hunter]

Yes, I can still recall it vividly. The Empire screen in those days, following the 1962 conversion, was 60 feet wide. That screen was increased to 68 feet in 2009 for 3D (it's now closed for IMAX installation).

I too remember seeing this presentation of "Ben" again with school friends. I don't recall the full aspect ratio but for some reason remember that it was continuous performances. The later Casino release, as all others, was only 2.20:1.This always cuts off an important example of the famous " Wyler touch" in the leper scene as well as generally compromising the framing throughout.

 

[OliverK]

Yes, I can still recall it vividly. The Empire screen in those days, following the 1962 conversion, was 60 feet wide. That screen was increased to 68 feet in 2009 for 3D (it's now closed for IMAX installation).

Thanks, that was not really such a big screen though. The MGM Theater in Berlin for example was over 85 feet wide and also in the ultrawide aspect ratio. It premiered with Mutiny on the Bounty, also with an anamorphic print and to my knowledge only the second and last production to be presented that way (contact printed anamorphic prints vs rectified cinerama prints for the later UP70 productions).

 

[OliverK]

Where did you find this information about it being intended for a Cinerama release?

Someone who was in the industry told me that both of the last big Bronston movies (Circus World and Fall) were intended for a Cinerama release but due to very bad previews in the US instead only a limited number of 70mm prints were produced for Fall and the Cinerama release fell through.Circus World with the Duke and Hayworth obviously was a different, and more upbeat, story and got its release in Cinerama.I never really questioned what I was told as I see no reason why they would have produced such a movie in Ultra Panavision 70 when the only venue to show such a movie would be cinerama theatres with their special prints.Fall has a very muddled production history and a deeper look into literature of the time might give a different reason for going with the ultrawide format for Fall but considering the way the other UP70 productions were released Cinerama seems very plausible to me.

 

[john a hunter]

I too remember seeing this presentation of "Ben" again with school friends. I don't recall the full aspect ratio but for some reason remember that it was continuous performances. The later Casino release, as all others, was only 2.20:1.This always cuts off an important example of the famous " Wyler touch" in the leper scene as well as generally compromising the framing throughout.

Just a thought, would not the Empire have shown " Ben" in an cropped ratio of 2.55:1. That seems to be the way that MGM wanted it screened.

 

[OliverK]

Just a thought, would not the Empire have shown " Ben" in an cropped ratio of 2.55:1. That seems to be the way that MGM wanted it screened.

I think that would depend on the aspect ratio of the screen - if is was wider they would surely have gone for the full width. We had a bit of a discussion about this in another thread: How many screens were really wider than 2.55:1? Definitely most cinerama screens with the ca. 2.59:1 aspect ratio of the process but the other screens that were as wide or wider could probably be counted on one hand.

 

[DP 70]

Hi,Is it me or does this Thread not refresh as it should ?

 

[OliverK]

Hi,Is it me or does this Thread not refresh as it should ?

It has now been moved to another forum, maybe this is the reason you are having issues?I still get my regular notifications so for me it has been fine.

 

[DP 70]

It has now been moved to another forum, maybe this is the reason you are having issues?I still get my regular notifications so for me it has been fine.

thanks Oliver.

 

[Douglas R]

Just a thought, would not the Empire have shown " Ben" in an cropped ratio of 2.55:1. That seems to be the way that MGM wanted it screened.

That's possible of course. I didn't actually go up to the screen and measure it! But I do know that it was far wider than 2.35:1 which I was used to regularly seeing at the Empire.

 

[Alan Tully]

That's possible of course. I didn't actually go up to the screen and measure it! But I do know that it was far wider than 2.35:1 which I was used to regularly seeing at the Empire.

Yeah, it was big! Let's not forget that if you saw those films on the telly then, it was 4x3 on a small screen...& mono!

 

[OliverK]

As promised I am reporting back as I got the French 55 Days at Peking.Region coding: Plays in both A and B coded player so no need for a codefree players.PQ: I'd say it is about on par with Circus World on a technical level, maybe a tad better. It does look better as the cinematography has more to offer but that may be in the eye of the beholder - I think that 55 Days is a great looking movie and one that the large fomat processes were made for. For those who do not know Circus World I would say that with regard to picture quality 55 Days sits somewhere in the middle between the also quite nice Khartoum that it betters imo and King of Kings which is overall the best looking Blu-ray from a TLA movie so far.Sound quality: I only looked into the movie shortly but the sound not dead as in other movies where all the high frequencies are filtered but as it should. Don't hold me to it though as I am only now noticing that I did not pay too much attention to the sound quality while I marveled at the picture and cinematography from a very close 1.15 screen widths away!Extras: Unfortunately 6 out of 8 extras are French only which is too bad as they seem interesting enough, no problem of course for those among us who actually understand French! As for the two others there are a bunch of interviews with the Hestons, Niven and Moore (production designer) and a very interesting comparison of the picture quality of the 8-perf scan with a standard 35mm reduction negative. That one doesn't look that bad except when it is compared to the very good OCN scan. Even the reduction negative could result in a Blu-ray that bests the two Bronstons that have been treated so badly, El Cid and Fall of the Roman Empire.Both the disc itself and the menu look very classy and overall I am really happy with it!

 

[Alan Tully]

Thanks for that Oliver, I'll wait & get the UK release. The sixties, my favourite decade for movies (my teen years). 55 Days has its dramatic problems, but it looks great, fantastic sets & amazing music score, I love it. It's early in the year & already there's, 55 Days At Peking, The War Lord, Lord Jim & The Pit & The Pendulum, none of them will get into any official top 100 list, but they're my kind of movies.

 

[Douglas R]

Yes, many thanks Oliver - appreciate that. The extras being in French means that I will definately wait for the UK version - and I will have to try and avoid looking at the awful cover! i missed seeing the film in 70mm for some reason, so the disc will look better than I've ever seen it before.

 

[RolandL]

Someone who was in the industry told me that both of the last big Bronston movies (Circus World and Fall) were intended for a Cinerama release but due to very bad previews in the US instead only a limited number of 70mm prints were produced for Fall and the Cinerama release fell through.Circus World with the Duke and Hayworth obviously was a different, and more upbeat, story and got its release in Cinerama.I never really questioned what I was told as I see no reason why they would have produced such a movie in Ultra Panavision 70 when the only venue to show such a movie would be cinerama theatres with their special prints.Fall has a very muddled production history and a deeper look into literature of the time might give a different reason for going with the ultrawide format for Fall but considering the way the other UP70 productions were released Cinerama seems very plausible to me.

I have never found anything in writing that Fall was intended for Cinerama, that's why I asked.

There were ten movies filmed in Ultra Panavision/MGM Camera 65, six of them were promoted as being "In Cinerama". The thought was you could release movies filmed in Ultra Panavision in just about any print format and aspect ratio you wanted (most were never done) - 3:1 70mm with separate soundtrack, 3-panel Cinerama 2.6, CinemaScope 2.55, 70mm 2.2, VistaVision 2:1, etc.

 

[OliverK]

Yes, many thanks Oliver - appreciate that. The extras being in French means that I will definately wait for the UK version - and I will have to try and avoid looking at the awful cover! i missed seeing the film in 70mm for some reason, so the disc will look better than I've ever seen it before.

Unfortunately I believe that the seemingly interesting French extras will not be available on the UK version at all. Hopefully there will be something else instead.

 

[OliverK]

I have never found anything in writing that Fall was intended for Cinerama, that's why I asked. There were ten movies filmed in Ultra Panavision/MGM Camera 65, six of them were promoted as being "In Cinerama". The thought was you could release movies filmed in Ultra Panavision in just about any print format and aspect ratio you wanted (most were never done) - 3:1 70mm with separate soundtrack, 3-panel Cinerama 2.6, CinemaScope 2.55, 70mm 2.2, VistaVision 2:1, etc.

Yes it would seem improbable that the intent would be a Cinerama release but virtually nothing is known about it. On the other hand this could have been photographed flat and the exact same release would have been possible.I will get a book about Robert Krasker in a few days who was the director of photography for Fall, maybe that will give some insight as to why it was filmed in Ultra Panavision 70.