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5.1 vs 6.1 surondsound speaker placement/Denon 3802

Discussion in 'Beginners, General Questions' started by Ernest R, Jun 6, 2002.

  1. Ernest R

    Ernest R Active Member

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    Is the optimum surrondsound speaker placement for 5.1 vs. 6.1 sound different?

    I just installed my 1st HT with a Denon 3802 receiver. In the instruction for 6.1 it recommends placing the surrondsound speaker placement slightly forward beyond normal placement to get the sound to float in mid air. I took this to mean slightly in front of my ears by 2 feet. Was this a correct interpretation? I am not getting the sound I think I should get out of a 5.1 DVD for I here the sound in front of me of course. But DTS 6.1 sound fine. The problem is most DVD are not 6.1 encoded. Should I move the speaker back 2-4 feet or since I have the seem to have the option on the 3802 buy another set of surrondsound place them 2-4 feet from the 1st set of speakers and select them when playing 5.1. DVDs. Or am I not able to select the "B" set of speaker on 3802 for this purpose?

    Another question on speaker calibration is that the Denon has internal test tones to use. Do I still need to get an test DVD also or is this OK?

    Denon 3802
    4 Klipsch Quintets as surond back and side.
    BIC DV62SI bookshelf (crossovers modified by Ed Frias)
    BIC DV62CLRs (corssover mod.)
    Tempest IB Sub with ava250 amp (underconstruction)
     
  2. Wayne McRae

    Wayne McRae Well-Known Member

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    Welcome Ernest.I have the 3802,but I don't recall the manual talking about placing the side surrounds ahead of the listening position.I have mine approx. 6ft high and 1 ft behind the listening position.If you have the room,add 1 or 2 more speakers on the back wall for Dolby Digital EX or DTS-ES (Matrix or Discrete)
     
  3. Ernest R

    Ernest R Active Member

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    On page 65 of the manual
    2 Placement of the surround left and right channels when using surround back speakers
    Using surround back speakers greatly improves the positioning of the sound at the rear. Because of this, the surround left and right channels
    play an important role in achieving a smooth transition of the acoustic image from the front to the back. As shown on the diagram above, in a
    movie theater the surround signals are also produced from diagonally in front of the listeners, creating an acoustic image as if the sound were
    floating in space.
    To achieve these effects, we recommend placing the speakers for the surround left and right channels slightly more towards the front than
    with conventional surround systems. Doing so sometimes increases the surround effect when playing conventional 5.1-channel sources in the
    6.1 surround or DTS-ES Matrix 6.1 mode. Check the surround effects of the various modes before selecting the surround mode.
     
  4. Wayne McRae

    Wayne McRae Well-Known Member

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    This setup does not sound right to me.I want to be surrounded by my 2 sides and my 2 back speakers.All you can do is try it both ways and go with the way sounds best to you.
     
  5. Richard_M

    Richard_M Well-Known Member

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    I have my Surround A speakers in line with me about 800mm above my head, Surround B speakers back corners 2.5 mtrs behind me and 2X center rears in the middle about 1mtr appart.

    I have both A&B surround speakers selected at all times.

    Regards,

    Richard
     
  6. Mike Strassburg

    Mike Strassburg Well-Known Member

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    Richard_M,

    Are you pretty happy with the A+B surround set-up? I have an extra pair of speakers that I'm going to wire up tomorrow the same way and just wonder if I'll really notice a difference.

    I'll have to run set A a few feet in front and angled back and set B will be even with the listening position. Back center has to be about 1' behind.

    Got a few buddies coming over to watch a movie so I want to set it up before then and hope it will sound good.

    Take care...Mike
     
  7. Richard_M

    Richard_M Well-Known Member

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    Mike,

    I love the sound of having the A&B on all the time, and it is not just me, everyone that comes around loves the way the pans from back to front etc work.

    It gives a much better sound envelope and you still get the pin point accuracy of where the action is coming from.

    If you have got a spare set of speakers it is not going to cost you anything to give it a try, let us know what you think?

    Richard
     
  8. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Well-Known Member

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    Ernest,

    ...to respond to another of your questions, yes, this forum recommends highly that an Avia test disc (@$39) or Sound&Vision Home Theater Tune-up disc (by the same laboratory @ $16) be used over the internal test tones.

    This requires you get the neat Radio Shack Sound Pressure Level analog meter ($35). The meter is set at C-Weighting, Slow Response, and generally placed on a camera tripod and set in the chair that's going to be your primary listening position.

    Amp test tones get you mostly there, but it's by ear feel; the meter really pegs the actual 75dB to 85dB balance of all your speakers, including Sub.

    And these test discs also have very good video calibration sections to walk you thru achieving an optimal screen.

    Avia has more video calibration tests while the S&V is less technical and also includes 6.1 and DTS audio test patterns.
     
  9. Ernest R

    Ernest R Active Member

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    Richard_M

    Thanks for the information. Another question:

    When you listen to your DVDs: What do you set the DSP sound settings too when both A+B speakers is set. And is the DSP settings like WideScreen a separate settings from the 5.1/7.1 stereo and surround sound settings or do they override these setting.

    Anyone:

    Is setting the SB speaker 6' feet apart too far? By back wall is 18 feet long and 5 feet behind the "Sweet Spot". Speaker are mount 9 feet high at a 45 degree angle. This seems it may be to far apart if I add another set of side speaker in the corners. My 1st set it 2 feet in-front of the sweet spot because that's what i though the instructions said to do. They may have to move back 2 feet.
     
  10. Ernest R

    Ernest R Active Member

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    Bill Kane,

    I already have the sound meter and will look for the S&V DVD. Any Suggestion on where to buy it in Houston, Texas? We got all the big stores here.
     
  11. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Well-Known Member

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    I would just order it online. Amazon.com carries it for $15.99 plus shipping HERE
    bill
     
  12. Richard_M

    Richard_M Well-Known Member

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    Ernest
    Re:
     
  13. JohnCRome

    JohnCRome Member

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    ok...picking up this old thread again...last night was wiring everything up...but now I'm in doubt...specifically:

    my couch lies against the wall - therefore my surrounds (3 QS8's) sit on the wall approx 4 feet up - now - I connected the centre channel to the multizone left channel considering it as REAR - but my dilemma is where to connect the left and right speakers... Surround A or Surround B? I connected them to B as per Denon manual (which shows A's to the side and B's at the back corners) - but now I'm worried I might not be getting the correct signals for the surrounds to work decnetly in 6.1 and instead should have connected them to A so that they are getting the signal meant for side speakers even though they are on the wall...

    hope I managed to get my point across....

    thanks for any input...
     
  14. Ernest R

    Ernest R Active Member

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    Funny how things turn out. I haven't check this forum in 6 months to find my name on top of it. I had to check to see if was even my userid.

    Anyway. It does not matter if you use either A or B as long as you tell the receiver which one to use. A is the default so you will have to change that to use the B surround channel.

    Do not set it to use both A & B because the you will get only 50% of the power from either A or B since the receiver splits the wattage between both speakers.

    On another note: the klipsch surround speakers I used were way inadequate in reproducing the low end sound I need before the subs took over. I replace the side speaker with Bi-polar Mission MD7S speaker. They look great and really distribute the sound around the room. Not to mention one the the least expensive Bi-polar speaker around, if one can find them. Found mine on Ebay after looking for a month as these speaker seem to be sold as part of a surround sound speaker set. Currently Denon is no longer the US distributor and I don't know who is but I highly recommend them.
     

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