24: Season 2 - Hour 21 - 4/29/03 (1 Viewer)

[WayneG]

This is the only thing that I can't get past. Yet it's the only thing driving the oust-Palmer storyline.

I was almost ready to forget this until the guy casting the final vote said something like 'David I respect you but I can't let 20,000 American soldiers die'.

Someone mentioned Buffy and vampires. Yes, and Clark Kent's super speed is unbelievable but it's in the parameters of the foundation laid by the show. The problem with 24 now is that the whole attack scenario too closely mirrors events currently happening in real life and we know they are not true. They don't even make sense on their own. How will delaying the bombing hurt? Is the ground attack scheduled for tomorrow? Are the troops in place? If not, then it doesn't matter when they bomb. In fact, if you bomb too soon before the ground assault, you give them time to rebuild. Also, doesn't the cabinet realize that Jack Bauer discovered the bomb and saved L.A.?

Despite this, the last episode did peak my interest for the rest of the season. I want to see Palmer kick some butt again and I want to see the VP, Mike and Sherry end up in a cell somewhere.

 

[John Swarce]

Jack is running around just fine after getting tortured to death only an hour ago.

You know, when it looked like Jack was dead on the bed, I thought to myself that he must be only sleeping! Come on, this guy has been up all night! He just needed a quick power nap!

 

[Qui-Gon John]

Well I liked it quite a bit. I think in AF1 there was much more validity in setting things up to invoke the 25th amendment, just in case. And as it turned out, they did not have to. I thought the vote was going to go Palmer's way, though. Have him get 8 votes early enough that the last guy knew even if he voted no, Palmer would still be in and he'd be out, so he better vote yes. As others have said, the allegation that delaying could cost up to 20,000 more lost soldiers, if they do go through with an attack later, has been bad enough. But to now believe that this reason is the final straw that makes his own cabinet turn against him, this is very hard to believe. But still I do enjoy the show. I was surprised Palmer didn't fire Mike on the spot, when he admitted to know about the coup attempt hours earlier.

 

[Michael Hughes]

Just call him Jack "Rambo" Bauer, a man for our times... One thing you can bank of with Keifer being the Exec Producer, he will not kill himself off, other than that anything goes which is the hallmark of this show. These writers have said all along that they make this stuff up as they go along (planning out 4/5 shows at a clip ahead) so you have to give them a lot of latitude with some of these plot devices, they certainly push the envelope with the standard storytelling and as a consequence allow you to stay on the edge of your seat knowing you have no clue what could happen next, but you can't expect them to flush all angles of this out when they they are pulling a lot of this stuff out of there ass as they go. I give them a pass on most everything but the Kim storylines, they are brutal.

 

[John Berggren]

One thing you can bank of with Keifer being the Exec Producer, he will not kill himself off

He's expressed interest in the second season being his last in at least one interview I've seen, so don't rule this out. Since season 3 is a go, he'll be around for sure, but if you see them introducing a strong hero character in season 3, or if season 4 isn't a go yet by the end of season 3, anything is possible. No rules.

 

[aldamon]

I agree that the 20,000 dead troops number sounds hghly unrealistic, since we in the audience will relate what's going on in the show to what's happened in real life recently.

 

[Greg*go]

aldamon,

That's a good point, but when you killed your wife, and tried to kill your babysitter, you might take a break off from doing your busy work, and try to flee the country or something. But it would be neat to tie him back into it somehow or other.


And with the "last straw of 20,000 people" thing. I can see how that many would lose their lives, but they're saying that this attack will save 20,000 lives. I asked before, but no one answered... What kind of bombs are in those planes? Some people I work with keep trying to tell me their nuclear bombs, which is why they're are only a few planes going across seas. Now, if that's the case, then I can understand how that might save a lot of lives, but then I'd expect the debate of wether they should be using nuclear bombs to be a main argument as well. Especially for Palmer's actions of calling it off until he's 100% positive.

 

[Michael Hughes]

It seems like those planes now will drop there cargo whatever it is, as Palmer will have trouble wiggling out of this in 3 hours and halting the mission. If it is indeed a Nuclear cargo, it may set up the plotline for retribution next year if the truth comes out that the recordings were duped.

 

[John Berggren]

24 Season 4 Confirmed???

Here's a snippet from TV Guide's website. Is this a harbinger that we'll get at least 4 seasons of 24?

24 co-creator and exec producer Robert Cochran has inked a new deal that will keep him at the helm of Fox's serial thriller for another two years...

 

[Tom Rags]

24 co-creator and exec producer Robert Cochran has inked a new deal that will keep him at the helm of Fox's
serial thriller for another two years...

There are not enough smileys to convey my happiness

 

[Greg*go]

Can I get a link to that TVguide article? I can't find it in their maze of a website.

 

[John Berggren]

TV Guide Snippet on 24

It's at the very bottom in their "in breif" section. My post was the complete text relating to 24.

 

[Matt Goddard]

1. What kind of bombs would they dropping on the Middle East? Regular bombs or Nuclear bombs? If they're regular, I don't see how one airplane raid would save 20,000 U.S. soldiers lives.

This is speculation on my part, but I am fairly certain the three planes on the display map represent squadrons, not individual planes or plane types. If the US is bombing another country, the first wave of bombing will be conducted by stealth bombers (and cruise missiles). B-52's and B-1's could be a part of the first wave, but they would not be used while the B-2 stayed stateside.

I realize some folks are now questioning the logic in 24, but I would still say that it would defy logic that at least one of those plane symbols on the display map does not represent a group of B-2 stealth bombers, despite the shape on the map. If three bomber squadrons left the US for simultaneous attacks in the Middle East, it would make sense that they would fly as a giant aerial armada in the same flight path until it was time for them to split up for their individual target countries as they entered Middle Eastern airspace. Notice there is one bomber symbol on the map for each of the three countries.

Finally, while I think the writers had no idea that real events would expose the 20,000 casualty figure as bogus, there were some "experts" predicting thousands of US casualties in Iraq. For purposes of the show, they needed to take a worse case scenario. The initial strike, as was the case in both Gulf Wars, would focus on taking out command and control facilities and anti-air defenses. The bombing of these facilities could go on for over a month, a la Gulf War I. By that time, in the 24 world the US could have ground forces in place to begin a ground offensive.

While I agree with those who think this 20,000 lives plot line is forced and contrived, it isn't so far out there that it diminishes my enjoyment of the show.

 

[MickeS]

They are not saying the estimated casualties number 20,000 , they are saying that if they don't bomb now, 20,000 MORE will die. So presumable the estimate is higher than that. It just does not sound plausible at all.

 

[Ken Chan]

at the helm of Fox's serial thriller for another two years...

That's if the show actually gets renewed. The network always has a way out (q.v. Farscape).

Did anyone notice that Kim is going back to the house to pick up her stuff? Any chance that you-know-who will be there?

//Ken

 

[Will_B]

If it does come back I hope it has someone other than Keifer. I love his work and his performance, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather see the show have one season with someone else, to prove it is the show's concept that works. And to prevent it seeming unlikely that Jack is the only person who can save the world again.

 

[Jeff Kohn]

If they were talking about attacking one country like Iraq, then I'd agree with you, but they're talking about attacking THREE countries. I don't think 6700 extra soldiers dying per country is much of a stretch.

We lost 120 soldiers in the Operation Iraqi Freedom, and Iraq had the most capable military in the region. The days of using tens of thousands of ground troops as cannon fodder are over, at least for the US Military. So no, I don't think it is realistic that we would lose 20,000 troops if we had to simultaneously attack, say, Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia.

And even if you do think that number is realistic, as others have pointed out they're not saying those would be the total counts, they're saying that's how many additional lives would be lost if the bombing attack doesn't happen right way. There is no basis in logic for this whatsoever, and if the writers got this idea from military advisors then all I can say is thank God those advisors are retired and no longer decision-makers, because they are flaming morons.

Look, I'm not expecting 100% realism in a show like this, but I do expect it to be more realistic than, for instance, Alias. And for 1.75 seasons, it was. I can totally overlook Jack's remarkable recovery from the torture session, little things like that don't really bother me much. But now, the whole premise of the show post-detonation is hinging on this one decision to bomb or not, and it's just totally absurd. We would never make the decision to go to war in 6 hours time, there's no precedent for that in the history of our nation. Even if we did make the decision, you can't move that fast, it takes time to put things into motion and get assets in place.

 

[Dan M~]

20,000 American lives are at stake if we wait another SECOND and don't have the element of surprise!

When will someone ask how many lives (US and Other) will be lost if the US bombs three innocent countries? Not just in the surprise bombing but in the resulting war? No one seems worried about that mistake. This should be one of Palmer's cards to play to save his job.

The show is still the most compelling entertainment on TV.

 

[Qui-Gon John]

While I agree with those who think this 20,000 lives plot line is forced and contrived, it isn't so far out there that it diminishes my enjoyment of the show.

As an estimate of addittional deaths, no, it is not too far out there. As the main reason to remove the President, (when it truly is only an estimate), that IS too far out there.

But, it hasn't really diminished my enjoyment of the show, either.

 

[John Berggren]

We would never make the decision to go to war in 6 hours time, there's no precedent for that in the history of our nation. Even if we did make the decision, you can't move that fast, it takes time to put things into motion and get assets in place.

I think part of the premise is that the military has already been prepared for this as a result of the conspiracy. NSA new about the bomb "for weeks", possibly longer. You are right, it takes time to mount an offensive. However, I think that there were those who were already waiting on the order. Also, I think once an attack went nuclear, our response would be markedly faster.