24: Season 2 - Hour 21 - 4/29/03 (2 Viewers)

[MickeS]

Liked last night's episode, but the "trial of David Palmer" was really dumb. It's HIS cabinet, yet they all acted like they'd barely met the guy, hardly speaking up or doing anything. They just happened to be able to get those witnesses up there this quickly for this? They just had to decide this historic decision in MINUTES?

And about the sound file, I didn't know that if the chip is broken, you can still get the parts of the file that are in the intact area. You learn something new every day!

 

[Hugh Jackes]

David Forbes says

Yes, because this is not his party, it is his Cabinet,

Unless he's a very inclusive politician, most or all members of the cabinet are his party (Clinton had one Republican in his cabinet, Bush has a Democrat), handpicked by him. That makes them a more intimate group of critics than those party leaders that forced Nixon to give up.

What happened to the fictional Palmer was a vote of no-confidence by his closest advisors. Hard to move past, unless they can hush it up, unfortunately, one of the "witnesses" was a reporter. Even without, no conspiracy of 16 people (cabinet + veep) can stay silent for long.

 

[David S]

"It's HIS cabinet, yet they all acted like they'd barely met the guy, hardly speaking up or doing anything. They just happened to be able to get those witnesses up there this quickly for this? They just had to decide this historic decision in MINUTES?"

But we don't know how any of them stand to benefit (financially or other) from going to war - as this relates to the whole "oil interests" part of story. I think this all gets wrapped up nicely in next three weeks.

 

[Christopher Bosley]

The ep. was ok, but still wondering how Stanton goes from torture under armed guard to testifying against the prez on videoconf. Except for Mike, who I suppose could be the reason he's out, nobody in the cabinet should have even known he was being detained.

I was wondering where Sherrie had gotten to since I expected her to give the most damning testimony of all against David. Now that Jack knows firsthand just how hardcore torture goes, here's hoping he uses his new skills on Lady MacPalmer herself!

 

[Jim DiJoseph]

Regarding the whole 25th Amendment issue, I don't recall too much trash being thrown around when a similar thing happened in Air Force One. In that movie, the Cabinet was motivated to call for a vote because the President seemed to be under extraordinary duress (due to his family's capture). If you recall, Glenn Close, the Vice President, would not ratify the vote. The scenario that played out last night on 24 seemed quite believable. Would the vote stand up later on down the line? Probably not, but that doesn't help matters right now. In addition, I don't believe that anyone would be held for treason (except the Director of NSA, of course) because the Cabinet and the Vice President were doing what they thought best. True, it's political suicide, but not strictly illegal.

Also, I'm surprised no one mentioned the actions of the Vice President. Specifically, when Chapelle called to indicate that the chip might discredit the evidence at hand. Rather than burying the possibility, the VP announced it to everyone and allowed the situation to play out. That caught me off guard because I thought the VP was more involved in the day's events than it would appear.

Anyway, great show! I look forward to the final three hours!

 

[Lawrence Stowbunenko]

I have to side with Jeffrey as well. While I'll be the first to suspend belief for the sake of entertainment, even I have my limits. And for all of the people out there who critique the critics, I have one question: Just how far does fiction have to go before you reach YOUR limit? If Jack Bauer suddenly appeared in a sequined tux and belted out an inspiring musical/dance number, would you still accept that as being part of the fictional experience?

I don't mind if they continually bend the rules for entertainment (a dozen trained assasins in an alley shooting at 4 people and only injuring one?), but when they use something so unbelievable as this presedential coup because Palmer wants to wait a little while to confirm ONE questionable piece of evidence before we obliterate a few countries?! That's just bad writing, and I don't care how well they researched the 25th amendment. Their excuse is insulting to the viewing public (20,000 American lives are at stake if we wait another SECOND and don't have the element of surprise!) Huh? Maybe I missed the episode where they explain that, or perhaps it'll show up on the DVD release.

 

[David Forbes]

Hugh,

Of course they were members of his own party, but they were not the leaders of the party (in a national sense). This is nothing like the Nixon issue and Palmer could most certainly effective govern if/when he's reinstated.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

I love everything going on in this show, except for one thing:

20,000 American lives are at stake if we wait another SECOND and don't have the element of surprise!

This is the only thing that I can't get past. Yet it's the only thing driving the oust-Palmer storyline.

Look at both wars with Iraq. We took weeks building up the forces to attack. We also said to Iraq the whole time "we are coming after you, we are coming after you...", I mean it wasn't like it was a secret or anything, yet we still basically blew through the country both times.

So explain to me again how it is that 20,000 American lives can be at stake?

Oh, and 3 B-52 bomber's (at least that's what the silhouettes looks like on the big board) flying first over Europe won't get noticed?

Joel

 

[Greg*go]

I've watched the entire season and thought last night's episode was great. True the show gets somewhat predictable, but I think that's only because you get used to the twists that they're going to throw your way. One small thing I didn't like about "the trial" was Palmer never stated

"I called off the immediate plans to send the planes in because Jack Bauer, the man who was a main part of foiling 2 assassination attempts on my life in one day, got the means of finding where the nuclear bomb was, then finding the bomb and flying the plane that led the bomb away safely from L.A., says he is 100% sure that the evidence we have against these countries is false and is currently in the process of gathering the information to prove so."



2 things I don't understand about the show though...

1. What kind of bombs would they dropping on the Middle East? Regular bombs or Nuclear bombs? If they're regular, I don't see how one airplane raid would save 20,000 U.S. soldiers lives.

2. How does attacking them at all save 20,000 U.S. lives? I think that number seems a bit high, especially in light of the recent real life events occurring. I think they throw that 20,000 number around too much, and it bothers me every time they use it. And this is a pretty big part since that is Mike's main reason for siding against the pres.

 

[Will_B]

Interesting thing about a "surprise attack" -- if the governments had been involved in the plot, then they would be expecting a response, so it wouldn't BE a surprise attack!

Only if the governments had nothing to do with it would they fall victim to a surprise attack.

Some of the cabinet should realize this.

But it is still very compelling entertainment.

 

[MickeS]

I agree that the 20,000 dead troops number sounds hghly unrealistic, since we in the audience will relate what's going on in the show to what's happened in real life recently. Same with the "sneak attack", with what we know about how the US has started the last two wars (Afghanistan and Iraq), that part of the story rings really hollow.

I can let most things go, because I still enjoy the show a lot. My personal opinion has always been that as long as less plausible things happen in a movie/tv-show BUT I don't think about those until afterwards, it's OK. If I am constantly bothered by unrealistic outcomes of events WHILE I'm watching the movietv-show, that's when they've failed. That's how the storyline with Palmer is right now.

 

[Scott Van Dyke]

I can't keep reading this thread with everyone ripping the show.

Do these same people visit the "West Wing" discussion threads?

I'm a registered Republican who watches the liberal content of West Wing, but I'm too busy to rip it let alone take mental notes of it's inaccuracies.

I guess I'm just not "savy":rolleyesenough to do so.

 

[John Berggren]

I thought it was an excellent episode. I have no idea what's in store for the next 3 hours.

I do think that Mike is far more involved than is obvious. The VP's two witnesses gave testimony about actions that Mike advised Palmer to take. It was Mike who told Palmer he had precedent to hold the journalist. It was Mike who asked Palmer how far he was willing to go with regards to Stanton.

I beleive Mike has been screwing over Palmer since hour one. For that reason, his reluctance to work with Sherry makes me think that she MAY come out to be working on behalf of Palmer after all.

 

[Steve_Tk]

snoozefest. I didn't really pay much attention, watched the braves and Lakers.

Jack is running around just fine after getting tortured to death only an hour ago.

 

[John Watson]

Regarding clues or continuity from Season 1? Yes, Tom, Yelena (Nina) was speaking German.

Another issue : who wanted Palmer as President (the "big money" people behind his candidacy in Season 1). And why?

Did they just want to see change, a black man finally get a chance?

Or did they think he would be easy to control. Did they think he would be easy to set up for a coup, so someone unelectable could get closer to power, or actually in power (the VP character).

Surely its just not oil again?

Or will this conspiracy continue to manifest X-File dimensions?

 

[Doug Smith]

Being Canadian (like many of the cast members)and not knowing a great deal of American civics, I am wondering why I watched month after month of the Nixon/Watergate hearings in the 1970's if you can get of a President so easily?

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Doug-

With Nixon, he was just, more or less, about to be subpoenaed to a trial, not actually be removed from office. Also, Nixon was able to continue to do his job, unlike what the cabinet thought of President Palmer in 24.

 

[Tom Rags]

snoozefest. I didn't really pay much attention, watched the braves and Lakers. Jack is running around just fine after getting tortured to death only an hour ago.

:rolleyes

That settles it, I'm going to the Buffy thread right this instant and telling them that, in fact, vampires do not exist.

I guess I'll never quite understand posts like these and all of the previous "inaccuracy" posts. Let's face it, Jack Bauer is a "modern day" super-hero. 24 is basically a comic-book show. The show is rooted in reality but is ultimately (in my humble opinion, good) fiction.

 

[Jay W]

I too am interested in why someone who thinks the show is a snoozefest bothers posting in here?

 

[John Watson]

I'm in the middle on that one - I want the reality based focus, because I find the super-hero shows like Alias, where the laws of physics, biology, and sociology (as well as how fast people can utter complex thoughts without any time for thinking!) are in total suspension, unappealing.

So I find the nit-picking or the exposure of major plot holes in 24 fascinating, and think the show could be a bit better than it has been on occasion.

But after a couple of poor episodes a few weeks ago, I'm back into the "looking-forward-to-the- disks-release" mode.