2013 MLB Season (1 Viewer)

[Mike Frezon]

I was figuring that he pitched and caught at the same time--like in a Bugs Bunny cartoon!

 

[TonyD]

Who was the last player to play all nine ? Bert?

 

[Greg_S_H]

The Astros are hurting to get to that point. They had to use today's scheduled starter in relief yesterday, so they had a fill-in starter today. And tomorrow, they are facing a starter who was in their bullpen until he was dealt about a week ago! That sentence probably adds to the confusion.

I don't know about starting a guy who was too shaky to be an Astro reliever, but he was pretty good last year.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Who was the last player to play all nine ? Bert?

Yup. I can't imagine that happening ever again. But ya never know.

 

[Patrick_S]

Here is a list of the players that have played all nine in one game.

Bert Campaneris, KC A’s, 1965
Cesar Tovar, Twins, 1968
Scott Sheldon, Rangers, Sept 6, 2000
Shane Halter, Tigers, Oct 1, 2000

 

[Mike Frezon]

Wow wow wow.

So instead of being the last, Bert was first. And two guys did it within a month of each other--in 2000?

Man. I don't remember that at all.

EDIT: Patrick, thanks for setting the record straight on that. I hate when I say/write something like that which is so wrong.

 

[Ockeghem]

Patrick and Mike,When I saw the name of Cesar Tovar (yes, I had several of his cards too Mike!) I immediately thought of those Twins teams that had at least three excellent hitters (Carew, Oliva, and Tovar) for a few years. Each of them hit at least .300 on those 1970 and 1971 teams. Rod Carew was magical with the bat.

Another Cesar -- Cesar Gutierrez -- is a name that will forever be etched in my mind for something he did on one freakish day back in 1970. He went seven-for-seven, something that (at least according to the link below) had not been done since 1892. I recall either hearing or watching Gutierrez do this as it unfolded. If the game was not on television at the time, then I'm certain that I was listening to it on my transistor radio, probably while playing catch either with myself or my neighbor.

Jun 21, 1970 - Cleveland wins the first game against Detroit‚ 2-1‚ but Detroit's Cesar Gutierrez then goes 7-for-7 with 6 singles and a triple to tie a record set in 1892‚ in a 12-inning 9-8 nitecap win. Mickey Stanley's HR wins it for the Tigers. Gutierrez‚ wearing #7‚ started the game hitting .218‚ and was 0-for-18 before today. Gutierrez will collect just 7 hits in all of 1971‚ and 128 hits for his career.

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=cesar&page=chronology

 

[Mike Frezon]

Rod Carew was always on base.

And he only ever hit singles. But he hit single after single after single. He was a machine.

Whenever I think about someone like him, I love looking up his stats. The year he won MVP, he batted .388...but his on-base percentage was .449! He was on-base nearly half the time. A lifetime .328 hitter.

And he never struck out. He struck out an average of 67 times a season. Chris Carter of the Astros has already struck out 165 times this season...in only 114 games. And there are many others right behind him. 22 are in triple digits.

If you want to have some Mike Frezon type of fun sometime (and who doesn't!), pull up Ty Cobb's statistics page and just start looking. Every time I do it, I am absolutely amazed. Among other things, in 13,000+ plate appearances over a 24 season career (he batted .323 in his final season at age 41 for Connie Mack's Athletics) he struck out only 681 times! That's an average of only 36 strikeouts a season!

Once I start looking at this stuff, it's hard to stop. For example, he wins only one MVP in his career?!? in 1912, he bats .409 (leading the league) yet only places 7th in the MVP balloting! He loses out to Tris Speaker (whose numbers are comparable to Cobb's in nearly every category. But, Boston won the world championship that year, so...

Then, I see that Walter Johnson...who finished 3rd in the MVP balloting finished 33-12 that season with a 1.39 ERA!

And on and on and on it goes!

 

[Mike Frezon]

...pull up Ty Cobb's statistics page and just start looking. Every time I do it, I am absolutely amazed. Among other things, in 13,000+ plate appearances over a 24 season career (he batted .323 in his final season at age 41 for Connie Mack's Athletics) he struck out only 681 times! That's an average of only 36 strikeouts a season!

Mike Napoli, currently of the Red Sox...has struck out 831 times in his major league career. That's 150 times more than Cobb in his entire 24 year career.

But Napoli has only played in 838 games in 7+ seasons! That's an average of 161 SOs in a season.

 

[Ockeghem]

Rod Carew was always on base.

And he only ever hit singles. But he hit single after single after single. He was a machine.

Whenever I think about someone like him, I love looking up his stats. The year he won MVP, he batted .388...but his on-base percentage was .449! He was on-base nearly half the time. A lifetime .328 hitter.

And he never struck out. He struck out an average of 67 times a season. Chris Carter of the Astros has already struck out 165 times this season...in only 114 games. And there are many others right behind him. 22 are in triple digits.

If you want to have some Mike Frezon type of fun sometime (and who doesn't!), pull up Ty Cobb's statistics page and just start looking. Every time I do it, I am absolutely amazed. Among other things, in 13,000+ plate appearances over a 24 season career (he batted .323 in his final season at age 41 for Connie Mack's Athletics) he struck out only 681 times! That's an average of only 36 strikeouts a season!

Once I start looking at this stuff, it's hard to stop. For example, he wins only one MVP in his career?!? in 1912, he bats .409 (leading the league) yet only places 7th in the MVP balloting! He loses out to Tris Speaker (whose numbers are comparable to Cobb's in nearly every category. But, Boston won the world championship that year, so...

Then, I see that Walter Johnson...who finished 3rd in the MVP balloting finished 33-12 that season with a 1.39 ERA!

And on and on and on it goes!

Mike,And it seemed as though Carew was on base even more when he played against the Red Sox. I was curious about Carew's lifetime average. Thanks for that.

"If you want to have some Mike Frezon type of fun sometime (and who doesn't!)...". LOL.

Sure Walter Johnson was 33-12 that season, but how many of those were quality starts?

Seriously, I believe I read that Bob Gibson once had twenty-eight(!) complete games in one season. I really dislike the concept of pitch counts.

 

[Mike Frezon]

In that 1912 season, Walter Johnson started 37 games...but only pitched 34 complete games.

Yet he was 33-12. Well...he pitched in a total of 50 different games for the Senators that season...getting decisions in 45 of them!

He pitched 369 immings!

Walter Johnson is another one of those guys that if you look at his stats, you will just be amazed.

In 1918, he started 29 games and completed 29 games...with an ERA of 1.27. Eight of those games were shutouts.

I looked it up, Gibson pitched 28 complete games in both 1968 AND 1969! Of course, in '68 he had the 1.12 ERA. And in '68, thirteen of those games were shutouts!

 

[Ockeghem]

Mike,Those statistics on Johnson are truly amazing.

I loved watching Bob Gibson pitch. As you know, 1968 was a magical year. We may see an ERA as low as 1.12 again after a season (actually, has this happened since then?), but I am very doubtful that we will ever see a thirty-game winner again. McLain's 31-6 record that year was astonishing to me. Thankfully for the Tigers though, they had Mickey Lolich on that team for the post-season. McLain (1-2) won only one game in the 1968 World Series, while Lolich (3-0) had the other three victories.

 

[Ockeghem]

Well, that was an ugly loss last night. I've been generally pleased with both Breslow and Tazawa, but Morales and Villarreal need to put the ball over the plate. You never know what you're going to get with Morales. And a four-pitch walk with the bases loaded (Villarreal) isn't going to cut it. (I thought that the fourth pitch was a strike, but I don't make the calls. )

Mike,

I don't know if you saw it or not, but MLB gave bonus coverage from about the seventh inning on in the Giants - Red Sox game. Without the advantage of hindsight, do you think Victorino ought to have let the ball drop in foul territory or do you always take the out when you can get it? The Giants had men on first and third with one out when Victorino caught the ball (out number two) and then had no chance of nailing the tagging-up runner at the plate, which tied the game at 2-2. That's a tough call for me to make -- take the out, or not?

 

[Mike Frezon]

Well, that was an ugly loss last night. I've been generally pleased with both Breslow and Tazawa, but Morales and Villarreal need to put the ball over the plate. You never know what you're going to get with Morales. And a four-pitch walk with the bases loaded (Villarreal) isn't going to cut it. (I thought that the fourth pitch was a strike, but I don't make the calls. )

I always think of the inexcusable performance by Kenny Rogers in 1999. A major league pitcher needs to be able to throw strikes...even a 75 mph fastball...when they HAVE to. Just horrible.

Mike,

I don't know if you saw it or not, but MLB gave bonus coverage from about the seventh inning on in the Giants - Red Sox game. Without the advantage of hindsight, do you think Victorino ought to have let the ball drop in foul territory or do you always take the out when you can get it? The Giants had men on first and third with one out when Victorino caught the ball (out number two) and then had no chance of nailing the tagging-up runner at the plate, which tied the game at 2-2. That's a tough call for me to make -- take the out, or not?

I was listening to the radio broadcast. I didn't pick up on the live MLB network look-in.

Castiglione and O'Brien were really 50-50 on it. What I don't know was where Victorino caught the ball. I only have a vague impression based upon the play-by-play. But I also know that right-field in that park is huge.

While it's tough to give up outs, I gotta think I'd rather force the other team to get the hit to tie/win the game. The fact there was a runner on first with one out means a ground ball gets them to the 9th in the lead.

 

[Ockeghem]

I always think of the inexcusable performance by Kenny Rogers in 1999. A major league pitcher needs to be able to throw strikes...even a 75 mph fastball...when they HAVE to. Just horrible.


I was listening to the radio broadcast. I didn't pick up on the live MLB network look-in.

Castiglione and O'Brien were really 50-50 on it. What I don't know was where Victorino caught the ball. I only have a vague impression based upon the play-by-play. But I also know that right-field in that park is huge.

While it's tough to give up outs, I gotta think I'd rather force the other team to get the hit to tie/win the game. The fact there was a runner on first with one out means a ground ball gets them to the 9th in the lead.

Agreed. They have to be able to throw strikes.
Victorino was about two or three feet in foul territory, and probably forty feet (a guess on my part) from first base. That's where I stand on those kinds of plays (whether to give up an out or not). I too would rather force the other team to earn it with a hit in that circumstance.

I tried to find a video of that play, to no avail. But I do have some of the transcript:

* Key play in the game: With the tying run at third and one out in the bottom of the eighth, Red Sox right fielder Shane Victorino caught Buster Posey’s fly ball in foul territory near the wall, allowing Scutaro to tag up and score the tying run.Victorino didn’t like being asked afterward if he should have let the ball drop foul, thus not giving Scutaro the opportunity to tag up.“You want me to do anything different?” Victorino asked. “What kind of question is that?”Then he calmed down and explained his rationale. He didn’t want Posey, the reigning NL MVP, to extend the at-bat and perhaps hit a gapper to give the Giants the lead.“I thought about it too,” Victorino said. “After the play was done, Scutaro crossed [the plate]. I said to myself, ‘Should I have let that fall?’ But if I let that fall foul, now he goes up there and hits the ball in the gap. You can always second-guess it, but when I was on the move over there, I told myself to catch the ball and try to get the out and get in the best position I could to make the throw.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/30377/lots-to-chew-on-tough-to-digest

On another play, Scutaro hit a single so sharply to Victorino that he picked the ball up with thoughts of throwing him out at first. But he juggled the ball a bit, so there was no chance. (I doubt that he would have been able to get Scutaro anyway, seeing as he isn't the slowest person on the field.)

 

[Mike Frezon]

Dave D'Onofrio, of Boston.com wrote a column on the different decisions that lead to the Sox' loss to the Giants last night:

Shane Victorino catches Buster Posey's foul pop.
With one out and men on the corners in the eighth, and the Sox still holding on to their 2-1 advantage, the Giants cleanup hitter floated a high fly into foul territory in medium-depth right field. With Scutaro at third, it was certainly deep enough to score the runner, which put the choice in Victorino's hands.

Should he catch the ball, knowing it would tie the game, but getting the second out to lessen the chance of San Francisco putting together a bigger inning? Or should he let it fall, and let Junichi Tazawa try to pitch his way out of the jam?

He chose the former, fearful that the reigning NL MVP would subsequently find a gap and the Red Sox would fall behind with San Fran closer Sergio Romo looming. However, this wasn't last year's Posey that Tazawa was pitching to. Since the All-Star break, the catcher is hitting just .226 with little power, and he was already 0-for-3 on Tuesday night. Furthermore, there was a runner on first, so there was the opportunity that Tazawa could escape with a double play -- something Posey hit into more of than all but one NL batter in 2012, and something he's done a dozen times in 2013.

Tazawa doesn't induce a lot of twin-killings -- he had prompted two in 40 opportunities before Posey dug in -- and so it might not have ever played out that way. But Victorino had decided while sprinting into position that he wouldn't let the situation get that far.

He also has some things to say about bringing in Villareal with the bases loaded...

 

[Ockeghem]

Mike,Thanks. That was an interesting read. It also shed some light on why Farrell chose to pull Peavy in the sixth inning. I often forget (like I did last night) when we are playing in a National League park.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Mike,Those statistics on Johnson are truly amazing.

I loved watching Bob Gibson pitch. As you know, 1968 was a magical year. We may see an ERA as low as 1.12 again after a season (actually, has this happened since then?), but I am very doubtful that we will ever see a thirty-game winner again. McLain's 31-6 record that year was astonishing to me. Thankfully for the Tigers though, they had Mickey Lolich on that team for the post-season. McLain (1-2) won only one game in the 1968 World Series, while Lolich (3-0) had the other three victories.

My all-time favorite athlete from any sport! I even rooted against my beloved Yankees in 1964.

Don't remind me, the worse October of my entire life! My fragile mind still has scars from Curt Flood losing that fly ball in the sun. 2004 was a garden party for me compared to 1968.

 

[Ockeghem]

"I even rooted against my beloved Yankees in 1964."

Wow. And speaking of the Yankees, they are very quietly winning, winning, winning -- and moving up in the standings. About a month ago I wasn't concerned about them. Now I am.

 

[Robert Crawford]

"I even rooted against my beloved Yankees in 1964."

Wow. And speaking of the Yankees, they are very quietly winning, winning, winning -- and moving up in the standings. About a month ago I wasn't concerned about them. Now I am.

Don't be, not enough good starting pitching unless CC and Pettitte remember their pedigree.