2009 MLB Thread (1 Viewer)

[Mike Frezon]

Did you see the play in question, Robert? Unless there's some history between those two (that might very well exist. I don't know), I'm surprised that one occurrence of up & in results in a suspension.

This article on mlb.com says the head of the umpiring crew didn't think there was intent. And Beckett is also emphatic about the situation.

Like I said before, I'm not sure why the Angels reacted so strongly.

 

[Ockeghem]

Mike,

Hopefully he will appeal and pitch Saturday. It's odd that this occurred as it did after-the-fact. I was very surprised that four Angels were ejected, but no BoSox (without regard to whether what Beckett did was right or wrong).

I think, and this is only speculation, that they were as apoplectic as they appeared to be because of the tensions that had been with the team since Adenhart's death. I don't know, obviously, but I think this had something to do with it.

 

[Scott_J]

A couple fun stats/firsts from Monday's games:

Jermaine Dye and Paul Konerko hit back-to-back HRs for the White Sox (the 300th for each in their careers)
Jody Gerut's leadoff HR at Citi Field was the first time a player hit a HR in the first regular-season at-bat to open a new stadium

 

[Robert Crawford]

Yes, I saw the play and I thought he was trying to send a message with that high pitch and Beckett has a big mouth and likes to talk crap. Secondly, I have zero respect for Joe West as an umpire.

 

[MarkHastings]

The upming in that entire game was pure and utter crap!!

 

[Jason Seaver]

I don't know if you've noticed, but Mike Scioscia takes every single little thing that doesn't go his way in a game like a personal affront. It's not quite as bad in the regular season as it is in the post-season (maybe he likes to play to the cameras), but if he's going to give the "did you see that? the umps hate us!" look after every borderline ball/strike call, he's going to have to go nuts at a ball up and in. I guess he sets the tone for the team.

Also, tonight's Sox/A's game is excruciating. And as much as I usually like Remy, can he shut up about the WBC? That doesn't exactly explain why everyone one else on the roster not named Youkilis sucks.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Well, I don't see how a message pitch earns someone a six-game suspension. And if having a big mouth and talking crap causes a suspension there would be a whole lot of ballplayers taking a lot of time off.

I'm the last guy who thinks anyone should be throwing at another player's head...but that was a split-second play as the ump was calling for time as Beckett was starting his delivery. And how Bob Watson figures he can determine a different intent days later and on another coast by watching TV pictures is beyond me.

Nothing happened before that play and nothing happened afterward to make anyone think there was some sort of subtext.

The only thing I thought Beckett did wrong was walk off the mound toward home plate to jaw with Abreu. He claims, however, he was trying to let Abreu know it was unintentional. My experience has been that most pitchers who throw a pitch to send a message won't talk about it in the media afterward.

 

[Robert Crawford]

No sympathy from me after Joba Chamberlain got suspended against your team and your Red Sox cried a river of tears. That same intent argument about Joba didn't prevent his suspension when he pleaded his case of unintentional. Also, it's funny how Beckett, who ran his mouth then is now pleading innocence while Youkulis is trying to explain Beckett's actions by saying things happen when he didn't do the same thing with Joba.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Robert: It seems like you're still hung up on the Joba suspension...because I'm not seeing much in common between the two incidents.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I'm not hung up on anything as I applaud Bob Watson's actions.

 

[Mike Frezon]

It's just that your rationale for supporting Watson's decision seems to be based on a completely unrelated incident that took place two seasons ago rather than on the actual incident in the Angels/Sox game.

One might draw the conclusion that you think Watson's decision is some sort of "payback" or "karma." That would be inappropriate on Watson's part, if there would be some sort of weird reason for it to be true.

 

[Ockeghem]

The BoSox are off to a 2-6 start through eight games. Their pitching has been mediocre at best. Lester, Matsuzaka, and Wakefield are without a win yet. Hopefully Beckett and Penny will be relatively consistent, and two of the other three will be able to pick it up a notch or two. Matsuzaka gave up five runs in the first inning, and the Hose find themselves in last place at the moment.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I don't know nor care why Watson made the decision he did, but in my opinion, based on how I view Beckett and what happened Saturday, he got what he deserved because I think he threw that pitch over Abreu's head on purpose.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Gotcha.

I cannot argue your point that you think Beckett threw the pitch over Abreu's head on purpose...because neither one of us will ever know (unless he admits it). But I certainly respect your belief on that point. And, in my opinion, it actually makes for a much more spirited discussion.

But, on the other hand, I really care about why (and how) Bob Watson made that decision. This amounts to another situation where MLB is okay with taking control away from their own officials they place on the field-of-play. Both the home plate umpire and crew chief, in post-game interviews, said they didn't see any problem with Beckett's action. They went on to say they wouldn't even have given him a warning if the benches hadn't cleared.

As far as I know there was no other event in the game leading up to that moment to give any indication that Beckett was throwing a "purpose pitch." There has been no indication, in any of the post-game stories I have read that there has been any theoretical motivation as to why Beckett would have thrown at Abreu.

Between Questec, the use of instant replay and the commissioner's disciplinary office, more and more authority is being taken away from those charged with keeping order on-the-field--the umpires.

Even those who agree with replay (and even Questec) might also agree that having an individual overrule calls on the field of play--which is basically what Watson is doing here--is a far-reaching step.

I always refer to my favorite "worst call" in these discussions. Where was the commissioner's office to over-rule Chuck Knoblauch's phantom tag of Jose Offerman in 1999? Right where they should have been! Staying out of things! Even though that missed call still rankles me...I'd much rather have blown calls on the field than bad calls made after-the-fact by people who were nowhere near the field-of-play.

 

[Jason Seaver]

The Sox and A's are playing like they've got a plane to catch in Oakland - six innings in less than 1:15.

And not to jinx anything, but at this rate I'm about half an hour or so from feeling ridiculously happy for Tim Wakefield.

 

[Mike Frezon]

He's taken such games deep before. It would be so awesome for him.

 

[Ockeghem]

I am thrilled that Wakefield had one of 'those' days -- where his knuckler had some zip, and pretty much stymied the opposition. The BoSox needed this one. Way to go Tim!

 

[Walter C]

What will the reception be for Nomar when the A's visit Fenway later this season?

And does the AL look like the opposite of last season, from top to bottom, or more like bottom to top? Must be Bizarro World.

 

[Mike Frezon]

If the shoe fit last year...

 

[Jason Seaver]

Assuming he travels with the team and isn't the DL...

It'll be huge. The CHBs and talk radio hosts will try to rile the fans up or act like he wasn't popular by the time he was traded away, but their job is to be jackasses. I've yet to meet a fan here who doesn't adore Nomar, and when Johnny Pesky's number was retired last fall, nothing in the pre-game ceremonies got a bigger cheer than a video message from Nomar wishing Pesky the best.

Trot Nixon got a big cheer a couple years ago, and I'm pretty sure Pedro Martinez did, too.