2004 Off-Season NBA Trades and Draft (1 Viewer)

[Scott Merryfield]

Dumars was interviewed on WXYT Sports Radio this morning. His major points regarding resigning both Wallace and Okur were:

• Detroit is currently not under the salary cap enough to offer restricted free agent Okur any more than the $5 million mid-level exception.
• The only way they can get under the cap enough to offer Okur more is by renouncing their "Larry Bird" rights to Rasheed, and he will not do this (Dumars' words, not mine).
• He believes that Okur's fair market value is right around $5 million (big surprise, since that is the maximum Detroit can offer him).
• Any team currently under the cap can offer Okur more than $5 million if they want to lure him away from Detroit, since the Pistons cannot match anything over this amount.

So, this means that if there is a team willing to overpay Okur a little bit, he's gone unless Rasheed leaves first. This is essentially what happened with Gilbert Arenas last season.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

I wish this was in the football thread, and hopefully this discussion can move over there but...

Carlo, who hired Gruden? Who brought in guys like Romanowski and Rod Woodson to play on the SB team, and who's methods of attracting veteran players are currently being copied down in Tampa Bay now?

As for the real topic in this thread, you know this has got to be the most interesting offseason in awhile in this league. Just look at all the deals and rumors of deals that we have some of which include some of the biggest names currently in the game and in a couple of cases some of the best players to ever play in the league. In a way it is almost like the beginning of NFL free agency, accept that it will still be awhile before a number of players can change teams. You've pretty much got rumors concerning every team, with nobody really hamstrung so they can't make any moves unlike a few teams in the NFL that were bound in cap hell. Plus, with the new team in Charlotte that just makes things all the more fun. I really think this could be a fun offseason, with things moving fast and furious. In a way, the Lakers losing to Detroit added elements of interest to this offseason that wouldn't have been there otherwise, for instance if L.A. wins I doubt Shaq wants out.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

I wish this was in the football thread, and hopefully this discussion can move over there but...

Carlo, who hired Gruden? Who brought in guys like Romanowski and Rod Woodson to play on the SB team, and who's methods of attracting veteran players are currently being copied down in Tampa Bay now?

As for the real topic in this thread, you know this has got to be the most interesting offseason in awhile in this league. Just look at all the deals and rumors of deals that we have some of which include some of the biggest names currently in the game and in a couple of cases some of the best players to ever play in the league. In a way it is almost like the beginning of NFL free agency, accept that it will still be awhile before a number of players can change teams. You've pretty much got rumors concerning every team, with nobody really hamstrung so they can't make any moves unlike a few teams in the NFL that were bound in cap hell. Plus, with the new team in Charlotte that just makes things all the more fun. I really think this could be a fun offseason, with things moving fast and furious. In a way, the Lakers losing to Detroit added elements of interest to this offseason that wouldn't have been there otherwise, for instance if L.A. wins I doubt Shaq wants out.

 

[Carlo_M]

Casey, sorry bud I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you. I gather from a lot of your posts that you're a young'un so perhaps you don't remember the dark days so well: specifically from the Bills Massacre to right up to the point Gruden was hired.

Oh and don't forget Al rode Shanahan out of town just so he could win some rings w/ Denver.

If you're only going to take the last few years (and apparently chalk last year up to Gannon's injury) I can see why you have good views of Mr. Davis. Those with a long-view though I think can see his downward trend.

Oh, and I loved him in the late 70's and 80's when he had the policy of bringing in castaway vets and squeezing good years out of them, a policy which he recently reactivated with Gannon, Rice & Garner (whose release I think was a huge mistake).

Finally, I'd like to drop this. Most of all because this is an NBA thread. I don't venture into the NFL one unfortunately because of my soured stance w/ Mr. Davis so unfortunately we'll have to leave it at this.

 

[Carlo_M]

Casey, sorry bud I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you. I gather from a lot of your posts that you're a young'un so perhaps you don't remember the dark days so well: specifically from the Bills Massacre to right up to the point Gruden was hired.

Oh and don't forget Al rode Shanahan out of town just so he could win some rings w/ Denver.

If you're only going to take the last few years (and apparently chalk last year up to Gannon's injury) I can see why you have good views of Mr. Davis. Those with a long-view though I think can see his downward trend.

Oh, and I loved him in the late 70's and 80's when he had the policy of bringing in castaway vets and squeezing good years out of them, a policy which he recently reactivated with Gannon, Rice & Garner (whose release I think was a huge mistake).

Finally, I'd like to drop this. Most of all because this is an NBA thread. I don't venture into the NFL one unfortunately because of my soured stance w/ Mr. Davis so unfortunately we'll have to leave it at this.

 

[Shane Martin]

If Cuban trades Nowitski for Shaq or in a deal for Shaq I think he's officially went off the deep end and went into George Steinbrenner mode. He wants to win at all costs even with a cap.

 

[Shane Martin]

If Cuban trades Nowitski for Shaq or in a deal for Shaq I think he's officially went off the deep end and went into George Steinbrenner mode. He wants to win at all costs even with a cap.

 

[Michael D. Bunting]

Well, if the Pacers want Luke Jackson (and I hope they can somehow get him) they are going to have to somehow trade into the 6th spot ahead of Chicago, now that they have dealt for the 7th Overall pick (and will take Jackson at that spot).

I don't know if the Pacers would be willing to trade Harrington for a top 6 pick..I think he is worth it though, on potential alone.

The McGrady deal to Houston isn't a for sure thing apparantly also. Francis does not want to play in Orlando. Maybe the Pacers still have a shot at TMac.

 

[Michael D. Bunting]

Well, if the Pacers want Luke Jackson (and I hope they can somehow get him) they are going to have to somehow trade into the 6th spot ahead of Chicago, now that they have dealt for the 7th Overall pick (and will take Jackson at that spot).

I don't know if the Pacers would be willing to trade Harrington for a top 6 pick..I think he is worth it though, on potential alone.

The McGrady deal to Houston isn't a for sure thing apparantly also. Francis does not want to play in Orlando. Maybe the Pacers still have a shot at TMac.

 

[Justin Lane]

The rumor coming out of Philly right now is Samuel Dalembert and the number nine pick for Tyson Chandler and the number 3.

Supposedly the Sixers are interested in Luol Deng and Chandler is due a big contract extension, which the bulls dont want to give to him.

I am kind of iffy on giving up Dalembert after his performance since stepping into the Sixers starting lineup. Though he is foul prone at times, he turned into a block and rebound machine. His offense is somewhat limited, but alongside Curry, he would probably make a decent complement. The Sixers need a frontcourt upgrade, and Chandler and Deng would give this to them.

Also coming out of Boston is a rumor of Pierce for Chandler, the number 3, and another player to make the salaries match. This would give Chicago a bonafide star, but I am not sure if Pierce would be a better fit.

J

 

[Justin Lane]

The rumor coming out of Philly right now is Samuel Dalembert and the number nine pick for Tyson Chandler and the number 3.

Supposedly the Sixers are interested in Luol Deng and Chandler is due a big contract extension, which the bulls dont want to give to him.

I am kind of iffy on giving up Dalembert after his performance since stepping into the Sixers starting lineup. Though he is foul prone at times, he turned into a block and rebound machine. His offense is somewhat limited, but alongside Curry, he would probably make a decent complement. The Sixers need a frontcourt upgrade, and Chandler and Deng would give this to them.

Also coming out of Boston is a rumor of Pierce for Chandler, the number 3, and another player to make the salaries match. This would give Chicago a bonafide star, but I am not sure if Pierce would be a better fit.

J

 

[Seth Paxton]

Well Chicago's move might screw things up, but at Bird's press conference the other day he almost came out and said as much. He has said he likes Jackson (could be BS but the local press point out over and over how open he is, which is probably why he doesn't do press conferences more).

He also said that he would be interested in trading up into the 15 range. And he has said that he would like to give Al the chance to start somewhere since that's what he wants.


The Artest thing is more iffy I think. Ron missed the post-season interview and has had some moments but unless he's just acting like a jackass then I doubt that Indy is "desperate" to trade him.

However, Bird did say that he thought Indy made a better offer to Orlando than Houston did, and my guess is that he meant Harrington and Artest for TMac (maybe a 3rd and 2nd guy involved too I suppose, or picks), but it could also have just been Harrington and Bender. I can't imagine that Bird doesn't love Ron's game and whatever locals might want to make out of him being "out of control" he was more in control than Sheed, and by most accounts Sheed stayed in control (some near T's against Indy included).

I guess Indy might look at what happened with PHX/CHI and the fact that ORL is now in a holding pattern with the original trade and go back to pressing for TMac (though Bird's version is that ORL gave them a list, they said "that's not gonna happen" and that was the only time the teams talked).

To me Indy is in a crazy spot because just trading Al for another guy like him (ie, a swing 6-5 to 6-9 guy) that is younger is just silly when the team's biggest problem seemed to be a lack of maturity.



Now the Shaq to Dallas thing that appears to be strongly intact, I think that's a very realistic possibility. I think Shaq would or does enjoy the type of owner Cuban is, I think Cuban has seen enough of the current group to feel comfortable in breaking them up, and Cuban has said that Dirk is untouchable.

So Dallas makes a shitload of moves to get matching salaries and "presto" Shaq's a Mav next to Dirk and 10 guys who ball about as good as I do.

Can't be much worse than what they've done the last few seasons.


At first I thought the Shaq stuff was crazy talk, but when you hear Shaq's people really pushing it hard it starts to feel quite serious.



Sheed sounds serious about maybe getting to NYC. Not sure if it can happen though, but I can see DET saying "look, we have Darko and we could keep Okur, why dick around with a guy who really doesn't want to stay here now that he has a ring?"

It's not like DET sucked ass before the Sheed move.



So now I wonder, will tomorrow night be crazy or all hype? Hard to tell, but the buzz is about as high as when Hill and Duncan were doing the FA tour a few years ago, which in the end turned out to be as much bust as reality.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Well Chicago's move might screw things up, but at Bird's press conference the other day he almost came out and said as much. He has said he likes Jackson (could be BS but the local press point out over and over how open he is, which is probably why he doesn't do press conferences more).

He also said that he would be interested in trading up into the 15 range. And he has said that he would like to give Al the chance to start somewhere since that's what he wants.


The Artest thing is more iffy I think. Ron missed the post-season interview and has had some moments but unless he's just acting like a jackass then I doubt that Indy is "desperate" to trade him.

However, Bird did say that he thought Indy made a better offer to Orlando than Houston did, and my guess is that he meant Harrington and Artest for TMac (maybe a 3rd and 2nd guy involved too I suppose, or picks), but it could also have just been Harrington and Bender. I can't imagine that Bird doesn't love Ron's game and whatever locals might want to make out of him being "out of control" he was more in control than Sheed, and by most accounts Sheed stayed in control (some near T's against Indy included).

I guess Indy might look at what happened with PHX/CHI and the fact that ORL is now in a holding pattern with the original trade and go back to pressing for TMac (though Bird's version is that ORL gave them a list, they said "that's not gonna happen" and that was the only time the teams talked).

To me Indy is in a crazy spot because just trading Al for another guy like him (ie, a swing 6-5 to 6-9 guy) that is younger is just silly when the team's biggest problem seemed to be a lack of maturity.



Now the Shaq to Dallas thing that appears to be strongly intact, I think that's a very realistic possibility. I think Shaq would or does enjoy the type of owner Cuban is, I think Cuban has seen enough of the current group to feel comfortable in breaking them up, and Cuban has said that Dirk is untouchable.

So Dallas makes a shitload of moves to get matching salaries and "presto" Shaq's a Mav next to Dirk and 10 guys who ball about as good as I do.

Can't be much worse than what they've done the last few seasons.


At first I thought the Shaq stuff was crazy talk, but when you hear Shaq's people really pushing it hard it starts to feel quite serious.



Sheed sounds serious about maybe getting to NYC. Not sure if it can happen though, but I can see DET saying "look, we have Darko and we could keep Okur, why dick around with a guy who really doesn't want to stay here now that he has a ring?"

It's not like DET sucked ass before the Sheed move.



So now I wonder, will tomorrow night be crazy or all hype? Hard to tell, but the buzz is about as high as when Hill and Duncan were doing the FA tour a few years ago, which in the end turned out to be as much bust as reality.

 

[Carlo_M]

That's because Kupchak has aired all of the internal laundry, and Shaq doesn't like that kind of GM.

Sure he and West may not have always seen eye-to-eye, but West never called him out in public and never stated a preference to Bryant over O'Neal. And then after the initial rash of Kupchak quotes hit O'Neal's ear, Kup then went on the next day to basically reiterate (rather than retract) everything he said.

O'Neal's gone after next year, if he can't get a deal done this year. That's for sure. If Kobe gets convicted, Kup can get on his hands and knees and kiss his bare feet, and Shaq still won't come back. He's that proud of a man.

 

[Carlo_M]

That's because Kupchak has aired all of the internal laundry, and Shaq doesn't like that kind of GM.

Sure he and West may not have always seen eye-to-eye, but West never called him out in public and never stated a preference to Bryant over O'Neal. And then after the initial rash of Kupchak quotes hit O'Neal's ear, Kup then went on the next day to basically reiterate (rather than retract) everything he said.

O'Neal's gone after next year, if he can't get a deal done this year. That's for sure. If Kobe gets convicted, Kup can get on his hands and knees and kiss his bare feet, and Shaq still won't come back. He's that proud of a man.

 

[Craig S]

Yeah, the McGrady thing is turning into a soap opera. However, I think Bird has pretty much taken the Pacers out of the T-Mac sweepstakes. And Phoenix, the other team most frequently mentioned as going after McGrady, traded away one of their key bargaining chips (the #7 pick), so it looks like they're throwing in the towel as well.

The Francis thing is being spun all over the place. His agent is now saying Francis is not anti-Orlando, just anti-leaving Houston. The fact remains, it doesn't matter what Francis says, under the terms of his contract he has no say in the matter.

McGrady has apparently said the only team he would sign an extension with is the Rockets, so that fact alone makes them still the front-runners.

The Magic front office seems to be a mess right now. First, they wanted the trade done by today, because what they got back would determine whether they picked Okafor or Howard. They floated the Houston deal as being all but done, and then backed off. Now, they say they're in no rush and there's even talk of them dealing the #1 pick. I'm not sure Orlando GM John Weisbrod knows what he's doing.

Or maybe he's crazy like a fox. At least we should know something more concrete tonight.

 

[Craig S]

Yeah, the McGrady thing is turning into a soap opera. However, I think Bird has pretty much taken the Pacers out of the T-Mac sweepstakes. And Phoenix, the other team most frequently mentioned as going after McGrady, traded away one of their key bargaining chips (the #7 pick), so it looks like they're throwing in the towel as well.

The Francis thing is being spun all over the place. His agent is now saying Francis is not anti-Orlando, just anti-leaving Houston. The fact remains, it doesn't matter what Francis says, under the terms of his contract he has no say in the matter.

McGrady has apparently said the only team he would sign an extension with is the Rockets, so that fact alone makes them still the front-runners.

The Magic front office seems to be a mess right now. First, they wanted the trade done by today, because what they got back would determine whether they picked Okafor or Howard. They floated the Houston deal as being all but done, and then backed off. Now, they say they're in no rush and there's even talk of them dealing the #1 pick. I'm not sure Orlando GM John Weisbrod knows what he's doing.

Or maybe he's crazy like a fox. At least we should know something more concrete tonight.

 

[JamieD]

Whoa, shocker there.

 

[JamieD]

Whoa, shocker there.

 

[Lew Crippen]

The Dallas Morning News claims that the Mavs/Wizards wikll do this deal:

Antwan Jamison for Christian Laettner, Jerry Stackhouse and the Wizard’s firtst round (number 5) pick. Won’t be final without league approval.

The speculation is that the Mavs are trying to put together a package for Shaq that does not include Dirk.