MASTER BURN-IN THREAD: READ THIS FIRST! (And ask follow-ups here.) - Page 4

I just got a 16:9 Mitsu Diamond and have been trying not to watch anything that might cause burn in (stationary station logos, stock ticker, black/gray bars of any sort).

The TV is calibrated descently (used Avia) and am going to contact Greg L. again about a calibration date....spoke to him once, nice guy.

So, my question is, after I put a certain # of hours on the set (100 or so)......do I still have to be extremely careful?

Also, what is the deal with the black bars on "every" DVD I put in. I won't watch them due to the possibility of burn in.

Is there an aspect ratio on DVDs I should be looking for so I don't get these bars? It's rather annoying.

Even if the DVD box sais Letterbox, Anamorphic, etc. (I get the black bars).

This is normal and is covered in the HTF Beginner's Primer and FAQ:

If I buy a 16x9 wide screen TV, will I get rid of the black bars forever? (Hint: The answer is "no".)


People have been watching letterboxed material on TVs for years without major burn-in problems. As long as you've properly set your contrast and brightness, you needn't worry.

M.

Don't give in to BURN-IN PARANOIA, you will Never win.

Just calibrate your set, and enjoy your home theater. No sense dropping the big bucks, then worry about what you can or cannot watch on it. Just remember not to leave static images on the screen for hours on end (black bars are ok for movies).

Would I have to worry about burn ins on the Samsung 27'' TXM2796HF? It is High Definition, but not a projection. Could I watch widescreen movies with the black bars with no worries?

Wondering -- for those who get the dreaded burn-in, and have a case distracting enough that one would consider CRT replacement, what kinda moolah would such an overhaul cost? Given the steadily-falling prices on RPTVs these days compared with just a few years ago, would it make sense to shell out the cash for CRT replacements, vs just getting a whole new TV?

I think you would also consider how long you've had it, actual cost to replace the guns vs. the cost for a set you'd want to replace it with. I wonder how hard would it be to change the guns yourself, if you could just order them from the manuf.

Jerry*G:

I would routinely check your setting to make sure they stay as you put them, and also get some good feedback from those Mits fanatics over at HomeTheaterSpot.

Gary Mui:

Paranoia? Would you like me to provide images of my paranoia?

Mark Lee:

This would be an interesting opportunity, but I find it a lot easier to get a price for tube replacement on my Nec XG135LC front CRT projector than on my Mitsubishi Diamond 65907 RPTV.

In fact, the tub cost for the NEC 8" tube is about $600, while I have yet to get someone to give me a price for a 7" tube in my RPTV.

And yes, if you are someone that has an eye for detail the uneven phosphor wear condition can be menacing.

John Co:

After having my unit for nine (9) months when I discovered my menacing problem, I realized I just blew $4K. Nothing less than a free replacement would have changed that idea. Once the basement HT is finished, this RPTV is considered a literal throw-away product. The cost to re-tube it is speculated at $700/tube, and for a total repair (of 2 tubes only) would be about $2K. This means the current value is about $1000 ($1500 at best).

Just got a Panasonic PT-53WX42 53" Widescreen for Christmas, and heard about this site from a friend. It's my first widescreen so I'm trying to learn all I can about taking care of it. Does anyone else here have a Panasonic? If so, any input would be great. No problems so far, but I don't want to mess it up.

I know there are two calibration DVDs I can buy, but I'm curious as to whether I'd be better served doing that now, or having someone come out to calibrate it and adjust the projectors for me as that's a perk of the extended warranty that I got with the TV. I'm told that I need to have that done every 6 months.

Also, I've turned down the brightness, color, picture and sharpness settings on the set. What else should I be doing to keep from having burn-in issues? I know the little network labels in the bottom right corner are everywhere, how much of a burn-in problem are those things?

Thanks in advance.

Tre,

Congrats on the new TV! I also bought that model back in early December and love it for the most part. In fact, there seems to be lots of new Panny owners these days.

Anyway, you might want to add this recent thread to your reading list, if you haven't already:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=116662

In general, the picture setting (ie. contrast or white level) is what you need to keep below 50% to prevent burn-in. And avoid static images as much as possible.

For best results, you should consider hiring for ISF calibration. The kind of calibration you'll likely get via your extended warranty/service plan is probably no better than what you can do yourself, if you're the tweaking type.

Enjoy!

_Man_

Do a lot of people have problems with burn in while using HTPC's, i.e. the taskbar?

I hear some of you talking about AVIA or Video Essentials. Would a THX optimizer disc be sufficient or should is one of the above the best way to go for RPHDTVs?

Generally, to "avoid" burn-in, you want to set your contrast/white level as low as you're willing to go, so even the THX optimizer should be good enough for that. You can use the white box pattern and just turn your contrast down until it no longer looks white to you and then bump it back up a little for it to look white enough again. Remember to do this w/ your lighting environment at your lowest desirable level since lighting is a factor in properly setting white level.

Unless your TV is of rather poor quality and blooms or distorts even w/ a properly set, low contrast setting, that's how you should do it w/out compromising picture quality much, if at all.

Of course, using a real setup disc would help optimize the various settings further w/ the aid of better, more complete patterns and such things as color filters.

_Man_

Thanks for the info Man-Fai Wong. The Paanny is a great set for the money, and I love mine. No complaints at all.

I've got all those settings under the halfway point, just to be safe. It's a little dark, but that's better than having an image burned on there. Picture, sharpness, brightness, all of it is down to 28 out of a high of 63.

What do you use to clean your screen? When they delivered the set, one of the guys left a finger mark up in the corner. Not a scratch or anything, just a streak and I want to get it out.

Also, did you buy a screen protector for the set? Or at least know where I can get one? I don't have kids so I haven't worried about it much, but I figure one day my niece and nephew might be over and decide to touch the big people on TV. LOL. Or worse, one of my wife's friends with kids won't be paying attention, and their kid will run his Hot Wheels car across my screen and leave me a scratch.

And lastly, did you use one of the calibration DVDs? How did it work out for you? I am the tweaking type, but one of the things I made sure of when I got the warranty was that they would hire someone to come and calibrate the TV, not send one of their guys from the store. Actually, I was told they don't even have anyone there who could do it so they had to hire someone outside. But the cost is covered by them according to the warranty. But I'll check around and see who all does it in my area just in case.

Tre,

Sounds like you should definitely get an AVIA or maybe VE disc since you're the tweaking type. I use AVIA, and it's quite handy as an aid for tweaking the TV. Comes w/ color filters for setting your colors and tints. And probably has the best collection of test patterns for most things you'll want to do in the non-HD world. Also, seems like most people use AVIA (or its "little brother" S&V), including most of the ISF guys who frequent these forum sites, so you get plenty of references for AVIA usage. Unfortunately, none of these existing discs help for setting up the HD side of things.

Anyway, you might want to checkout the Keohi site (http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/index.htm) and do some reading there to get you up-to-speed on getting the most out of your TV (and then maybe also visit the dedicated Panny site/forum www.panny.tv). For stuff related to AVIA setup, Guy Kuo's tips on the Keohi site are especially useful, but the whole site is awesome in general and involves some of the same folks who frequent here.

And no, I did not buy any screen shield. Don't care for the inevitable loss in PQ. I do have 2 hyperactive kids, but we train them not to fool around near the big TV. We've also trained them into movie-lovers it seems.

I just use a soft dry cloth to clean the unprotected screen so far. Definitely don't use anything that will leave a residue or anything abrasive.

_Man_

Anybody know what the TV manufacturers have to say about the burn-in issues of RPTVs?

I know the owner's manuals caution users to not display static images or black bars for "an extended period".

But I've yet to see any manual suggest what every single human on this board suggests .... and that is to SEVERELY cut back on the contrast/brightness settings.

Since the factory always has the TVs in "torch" mode, wouldn't it at least behoove the TV makers to make this high-contrast setting known to the uninitiated, novice TV buyer (who might just leave everything on pre-set settings)?

As someone somewhere has pointed out, the TV makers probably don't want the "uninitiated, novice" to think his/her TV sucks at the proper contrast/brightness levels and then return it for a refund. Most "uninitiated, novice" would probably expect their brand new $2K+ TV to yield brilliant results, and plenty of them will probably find the proper levels unacceptable just as plenty of them find OAR to be unacceptable or at least undesirable if it means seeing any kind of framing bars.

To fair though, OAR isn't dependent on something like lighting environment...

_Man_

And yet, no federal level agency has dared to step in and protect the consumer. One could make a case of unfair and misleading business practices against both the manufacturers and the broadcasters. First, OAR is simply watching content the way it was made and intended to be watched. Secondly, broadcasters are by their own vanity handcuffing viewers into either watching in harm or not watching at all. Manufacturers would rather waste money in lost sales than in development around this condition.

Both of these conditions are due to the weakness of the offered technology, and I have yet to see materials where it shows these manufacturers are actively trying to formulate a better phosphor with a pseudo-phosphor. At the same time, the broadcast vanity is at an all-time high. Its not enough they adulterate the content we pay for but some are doing this to an unnecessary level of brightness.

So, it would be wise to either sign a petition and seek class-action status in the eyes of both the FCC and FTC then sitting around here be-bopping about how we are being taken advantage of. The numbers of victims will continue to grow as the pricing for introductory RPTV's based on this technology gets more and more inexpensive to buy-in, but the repair costs remain static and expensive.

If you have a concern regarding the issues at hand (i.e. the two points above) then you should be at least writing a couple of letters (one to the FCC, one to the FTC, and maybe one to the manufacturer of your RPTV). As with the local news reporting and the daily news paper, I am more than willing to give up on the broadcasters. And if the CRT-manufacturers continue their present course many will find their products not worth buying.

Additionally, I am surprised, but not totally, that no federal agency requires the retailers to educate customers when making purchases of this magnitude. Part of this problem is that of the classification of non-durable goods. What the government considers non-durable may ultimately be the deciding factor in the duping of the American consumers.

Trust No one!

My new RPTV looks MUCH worse (IMO) with 100% contrast.
I really thought I'd hate the "dark/darker" picture that a 35-to-40-notch setting on Contrast would provide on a RPTV. But, to my pleasant surprise, I like it much better with contrast at 40, plus sharpness just above Zero.

This may be a stupid question. But why are RPTVs so suceptible to burn-in but tube TVs aren't?

Mainly because the small tubes or guns have to burn so much more brightly to project the image to the mirror. With direct-view you don't have this problem.

Can AVIA or VE be rented from anywhere? Since I'm only going to use it once, I'd rather not make the purchase.

Thank You.

why would you only use it once?

Well, I don't plan on using it again until I buy another set which will be a good 5 years. At this point, a new version of Avia/VE will be available.

I just bought Avia a few weeks ago, and I plan on checking the settings for my TV every 2 months, the audio shouldn't change much unless I decide to re-arrange my HT room. I calibrated two of my friends TVs and surround sounds one gave me $75 and another gave me $50. I was going to do it for free (I like doing that stuff), but they insisted.

I got my first RPTV, a Sony KP-46WT500, about a month ago. Having read a good part of this thread prior to delivery, I immediately turned down the picture and brightness settings to well below 50%. I then calibrated the normal user controls using AVIA. Contrast and picture are still well below 50%.
Right now, I am watching about 50% cable and 50% DVD.
I mostly watch cable content in Wide Zoom mode. When watching sports or news, which usually have scroll bars or time clock/scoreboards, I switch between normal mode and wide zoom every 15 min or so, to change where the fixed images are on the screen. I can often get the scroll bar out of the picture by using the Wide Screen menu option to adjust the image vertically.
My question is, given all these precautions, do I need to worry about burn in?
TIA

I've got burn-in Share Your Story

Static image from a video game, tiny amount of burn in. I can really only notice it when looking at a white screen. Almost impossible to notice while watching TV.

Seems to have come from, multiple hours, 5+ per day. Multiple days, 90+.

What are you experiences?

As I mentioned in other threads, I have a slight bit of bur-in from watching 2.35:1 Anamorphic in Cinema-Wide on my 16x9 Pioneer. That combination left a very thin black bar, but I used to use it b/c I wanted to mostfly fill my screen but figured I was trimming less off the sides than Zoom mode, (which will fill the screen from top to bottom). However, now I am trying to keep it from getting any worse so I always watch content so the screen is filled with picture, (unless the source won't allow it), like 2.35:1 non-anamorphic, (which I try to view the least amount of as possible).

I have sears coming out. I will keep you posted!

ok,

last night...brand spanking new Toshiba 42H82, contrast 38
brightness 40

I fell asleep watching Shallow Hal special features.

I guess the special ended, and I was left with a menu that didn't move, or animated, I'm guessing this went on for maybe 1 hour/hour and a 1/2.


Could I have screwed up my BRAND NEW tv already? I didn't see anything, may I should go watch a bit of tv to check it out.