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Panic Room - Is it Truely Superbit

post #1 of 101
9/25/02 at 6:07am
Thread Starter 
Just rented this DVD last night and enjoyed the movie.

I started noticing the same problems I notice in other Sony releases mostly the mosquito noise that pops up in darker scenes.

I thought this was odd since it was labeled as a SuperBit title.

I also noticed that Superbit is not listed on the artwork or in the menus.

My Sony displays the bit rate during playback and noticed the movie barely crept above the "5" line which is average for most titles.
I could have sworn my Dracula SuperBit (the only one I own) never dipped below 7 or 8.

Something tells me Superbit got lost in the production somewhere or Sony used it as an excuse to include the DTS track (they can still say that DTS is a SuperBit exclusive).

Anyone else notice a less than "Super" Superbit of Panic Room?

Doug
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post #2 of 101
9/25/02 at 6:30am
Very interesting. Will have to look into that once i got my copy (which will be another few days probably).
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post #3 of 101
9/25/02 at 6:46am
I bought PR and showed it to some friends. A few had not seen my projector before and I had to explain that this is not typical of the video quality. We thought it was rather poor. It seemed soft in many scenes and I guess the very low light levels did not help with the images. I popped in "Gladiator" after showing this film and what a difference, even in the opening dark lit scenes.
I was also very unimpressed by that horrible paper packaging, over all I would say rent this DVD instead.
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post #4 of 101
9/25/02 at 7:52am
I thought the video was a bit soft too. Was it like this theatrically?
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post #5 of 101
9/25/02 at 7:54am
Someone told me that only 17 gb of the disc was used, is this true?
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post #6 of 101
9/25/02 at 8:03am
Only 17Gb!?!?!

It better look damn good if that is true. (Which it isnt, unfortunatly.)

Dharmesh, the dvd itself would have to be a doublesided/dual layer dvd to have to take up that much room. So no, the movie does not take up 17Gb.
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post #7 of 101
9/25/02 at 8:37am
DVD Monthly mag in the UK tested a few SuperBit titles on a bit rate meter & found most put out a similar rate to most regular DVDs.

They mustn't have tried Dracula.
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post #8 of 101
9/25/02 at 9:00am
I posted this (second hand) informaion in another thread here still not had any confirmation if right or wrong though.

But it true it's shocking. Only 2/3 of the disc used? That would give them over 1 hour's worth of space for supplements (if you accept the bit-rate can be much lower for supplements!)
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post #9 of 101
9/25/02 at 9:11am
Bah, it is just the usual "the regular consumer will never figure it out" bulljive that the studios throw out there. IE: No edge enhance on Episode I... f'n bulljive!

Face it, this film looks pretty damn good to the average consumer who has a 19" Sympatico TV with no surround options and a coaxal video connection

I found the video to be a little too dark... definately darker than when I saw it theatrically. The light scenes (in the beginning and end) are absolutely MESERIZINGLY beautiful... but the dark scenes is where it goes to shit.

All in all it is a pretty disappointing disc... I will DEFINATLEY unload it when the Special Edition comes out (if ever).
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post #10 of 101
9/25/02 at 9:12am
There will be another extras-laden edition of the Panic Room DVD later down the line.
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post #11 of 101
9/25/02 at 9:12am
I was thinking this would be my best looking dvd ( my 1st superbit ) boy was I dissapointed. Lord of the Rings, Blade II, and Gladiator all look beter imo.
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post #12 of 101
9/25/02 at 9:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
DVD Monthly mag in the UK tested a few SuperBit titles on a bit rate meter & found most put out a similar rate to most regular DVDs. They mustn't have tried Dracula.

I could be wrong. Its been a long time since I checked Dracula. I do remember noticing the bit rate seemed higher than normal discs.

Checking bit rates is something I'm anal about. I check the audio and video (the new Unforgiven is 448kps btw).
So, I'm not sure Dracula uses higher video rate, I'll check when I get home.

The real question is, if these Superbits aren't using every single available bits, then why did they even bother?

Its not like it is hard to check the validity of their claims.

Doug
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post #13 of 101
9/25/02 at 10:10am
I was dissapointed in the video quality. It is by FAR my worst looking Superbit title. Frankly I think this disc just doesnt measure up very well to other recent big releases.
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post #14 of 101
9/25/02 at 11:21am
Ugh!
I am aghast.
This is not my cup of tea, so I will never own this title, but still!
With the admittedly weak selection of SB's I was hoping [saying] this would be the title to open the flood gates with first releases being in SB.
Boy, was I wrong.
I think Sony should refund all your money and let you keep the disc.
Rip off!
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post #15 of 101
9/25/02 at 12:17pm
Quote:
The real question is, if these Superbits aren't using every single available bits, then why did they even bother?


It's a brand name, and that's about it. The whole line is a marketing effort to go after the dollars of DTS hounds.
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post #16 of 101
9/25/02 at 12:26pm
Here is how I think it went down

"We have the transfer and compression for the special edition of 'Panic Room' done, sir... it takes up 75% of the disc... there there is room for the 3 (or 4) commentaries that Mr. Fincher wants AND the DTS, boy this is going to be a great 2-disc set"

"How long till the supplements are done"

"Should be done in three months, sir."

"Three months?! But we need it done NOW... PRONTO! Hey, why not just take the transfer, slap in some DTS, and release it under the SUPERBIT line. We will be selling a barebones disc with no extras whatsoever... people won't complain because they think it is the best quality possible... and we can cash in A SECOND TIME"

"Brilliant, sir"

*NOTE: This was only a dramatization



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post #17 of 101
9/25/02 at 12:33pm
I'm glad I didn't buy it! Quite frankly, I never bought into the whole "Superbit" line, as on the majority of the TVs and systems I've seen them on, I havn't seen enough of an improvement in sound or picture to justify it. It dosn't matter how many bits they use : a bad transfer is a bad transfer, and a poor sound mix will sound like a poor sound mix, regardless of how much space is used. I'd rather have the space used for extras and supplements, hence I didn't buy Panic Room, as I know that Fincher has planned a Special Edition set. I hate being burned by companies who do multiple releases, so I didn't buy this one knowing full well that this would be the case.
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post #18 of 101
9/25/02 at 12:50pm
...and the film wasn't that good either.
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post #19 of 101
9/25/02 at 1:07pm
I get an average bit-rate of 7.87Mbps for Bram Stoker's Dracula SB.

Adam
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post #20 of 101
9/25/02 at 1:27pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks Adam, I thought so.

I'm not trying to bash SuperBit. I'm all for them wanting to use all available space for video.

And in no way would I tell someone not to buy Panic Room. I felt the there was enough David Fincher cool stuff to justify a purchase.

It just blows my mind that their claim is so easy to debunk by averaging the bitrate, how do they get away with it?

I rented Panic Room, does the store bought copy include an insert explaining what SuperBit is? Dracula does and IIRC, it was very straight forward on what SuperBit promises to be.

Doug
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post #21 of 101
9/25/02 at 3:11pm
What do you think of the fancy cardboard case it comes in?

--Randy Schissler
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post #22 of 101
9/25/02 at 3:18pm
Fancy as in "Fancy Ketchup"?

I like the release, but I also loved the film. I'll be dropping it as soon as the special edition comes out, but it will work for now.

I also concur that this was not a Superbit title till someone put it on the cover of the case.
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post #23 of 101
9/25/02 at 3:47pm
I say it's not Superbit (despite the packaging to the contrary) because it breaks one of the most important rules of a Superbit disc: Having only one Dolby Digital and one DTS track to leave plenty of space for video bitrate peaking! The Panic Room disc contains an additional 2.0 Dolby Surround track and a French 5.1 track. This should disqualify it as a true "Superbit" title under Sony's own definition of what a Superbit disc is supposed to be (I won't even go into the presence of the trailer on the disc). That and the inexcusable fact that they did not maximize all available space on the disc.

-Lyle J.P.
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post #24 of 101
9/25/02 at 3:48pm
Man, I almost pulled the trigger on this one too. Alas, I'll wait for the SE too.
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post #25 of 101
9/25/02 at 4:24pm
Fancy as in "El Cheapo"! It makes a snap case look good.

--Randy Schissler
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post #26 of 101
9/25/02 at 4:57pm
Another special edition is coming? Can this be verified? Where are you guys getting it from?
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post #27 of 101
9/25/02 at 8:14pm
I don't know about Panic Room, but I did find some interesting facts about Columbia Bit-Rates...

Charlie's Angels, The 6th Day and Crouching Tiger (The non-super-bits) don't use the whole disk and have an average bitrate of only 4 or so MBPS... So why did they purposely set the bitrate lower than it can be? Usually, they decide what extras they need, the sound tracks they'll put and so on and then depending on the space left, put the video bitrate as high as possible.

I suspect this is to increase the difference in quality between standard and Superbits... I compared them, Crouching Tiger Std vs SB I can notice the difference even on my rather low end equipement... The 5th Element look good too...
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post #28 of 101
9/25/02 at 8:29pm
I'll have to watch Panic Room this weekend - mine just came in the mail from Best Buy.com. (They are always late for me.)

Considering I ordered this for $14.99 plus tax, I can't complain and I am not interested in a SE. Extras mean little to me and I actually rather pay $5.00 less and get no extras if I have the choice.
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post #29 of 101
9/26/02 at 1:25am
Lyle, one of the reasons the 'non-superbit' movies may not take up all of the remaining disc space after the supplements have been added is because the studio is budgeting the bit-rate so that any potential re-issues of the disc have enough room for additional features while making use of the exact same transfer/compression/encoding.
That way they can release an 'upgrade' disc at minimal authoring cost. Just an idea.
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post #30 of 101
9/26/02 at 6:24am
Dave H,

I'm with you! I watch extras once. I'd rather just have the movie in DTS.
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