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Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online! - Page 73

post #2161 of 2333
Thread Starter 

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

New... and wow:

Goodtimes - Region 0 - NTSC "Zulu" vs. Paramount - Region 2/4 - PAL vs. Front Row Entertainment - Region 0 - NTSC vs. MGM - Region 1 - NTSC vs. Paramount Region 0 Blu-ray

DVDBeaver.com - Eclectic Cinema and Digital Versatile Discs - DVD - all regions, reviews, comparisons, film

Happy Holidays
post #2162 of 2333
Thread Starter 

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

New...

Zeitgeist - Region 1 - NTSC "Sophie Scholl" vs. Drakes Avenue - Region 0 - Blu-ray


DVDBeaver.com - Eclectic Cinema and Digital Versatile Discs - DVD - all regions, reviews, comparisons, film

Best,
post #2163 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Since you seem to have almost completely forsaken standard DVD on your site, I have no more interest in visiting, after having visited many times in the last year. You do no one a favor by this overt pumping of Blu-Ray. At least, IMHO.
post #2164 of 2333
Thread Starter 

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Billy,
I review what I am sent to review, and still buy many DVDs to cover (recently Douglas Sirk Volume 2, Zabriskie Point, Man on Wire, Murnau, Borzage and Fox, Get Smart - the Complete Series, Anamorph, Summer Hours, L'Argent, Europa, White Dog, etc.).
Quote:
You do no one a favor by this overt pumping of Blu-Ray.
Somewhat presumptuous - wouldn't you agree? We get numerous emails daily from appreciative surfers.... but thanks for your, less-than-humble, opinion.
Regards,
Gary
post #2165 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

There is a lot of Blu-Ray

There is a lot of PAL Region 2

There is a lot of NTSC Region 1

There is a lot of attention paid to Criterion releases

A lot of attention paid to Box Sets

Pound for pound a lot of attention to sub-genres like Film Noir

Seems to me there is something for everyone. I don't know how many titles DVDBeaver and his merry band of contributors reviewed or compared in 2008 but it was a lot. And it went all year. When other sites were on siesta in the Summer, these guys were still pumping out content. I think they had a hell of the year.

Back on topic, some of the Blu-Ray Zulu shots look amazing.
post #2166 of 2333
Thread Starter 

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

New...

In our review of the region-free Blu-ray of Gigi, I've compared 10 captures with the 2008 2-disc SE.

DVDBeaver.com - Eclectic Cinema and Digital Versatile Discs - DVD - all regions, reviews, comparisons, film

Cheers,
post #2167 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

I'm just speaking for myself - and all I see these days is a lot of Blu-Ray reviews and few SD reviews - since I don't own Blu-Ray it's become meaningless for me to visit, whereas, up until about three months ago, it was fairly even in terms of Blu-Ray vs. SD. Not trying to be offensive, just telling you one person's thoughts.
post #2168 of 2333
Thread Starter 

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Billy,
I can appreciate your frustration.
From our mission statement (linked on our homepage):
Quote:
...it is always preferable to respect (our) favorite films with the definitive digital edition available...
(BTW, written before consumer accessibility to high-def).
For films like Casablanca, Black Narcissus, Red Desert, 2001, The Searchers, The Godfather(s) etc. etc... right now this means Blu-ray.
If there is a specific DVD you would like me to cover - by all means send me an email (gary at 2ze dot com). I appreciate suggestions and occasionally am able to fulfill them. Personally, I find there isn't a lot coming out right now. What DVD would you like me to review?
I never, for a moment, thought the DVD format wouldn't, one day, be improved upon in my lifetime (just as I suspect the same will happen to Blu-ray). I think this is an expected home theater evolution whether it advances to perpetuity... or not.
Billy, I suspect one day you will own a Blu-ray player, be thrilled with it - and possibly even curse yourself for not nabbing one eariler. I hope our comparisons encourage you in that direction. I've yet to meet a film fan who was disppointed in the investment.
Best,
post #2169 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

DVD is dead, Billy; long live Blu-ray!
post #2170 of 2333
Thread Starter 

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

New...

Minerva (Italy) - Region 0 - PAL "La Femme Publique" vs. IVC (Japanese) - Region 2 - NTSC vs. L.C.J. Editions (France) - Region 0 - PAL - PAL vs. Mondo Vision (Special Edition) - Region 0 - NTSC

DVDBeaver.com - Eclectic Cinema and Digital Versatile Discs - DVD - all regions, reviews, comparisons, film

Cheers,
post #2171 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Brashear
DVD is dead, Billy; long live Blu-ray!

Really? You certainly wouldn't know it by this year's sales, would you?
post #2172 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Not that this has anything to do with Gary's choice to review Blu-ray product, but do you have some sales figures you could share with us, Billy?

Something meaningful that would show a direct correlation between the established home video medium and it's new & improved challenger this year?
post #2173 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

There was a recent link to an article right here at the HTF - I'm sure if you search for it, you'll find it. It was from Variety, I think - and I think they'd know what they were talking about and would be meaningful to those who wish to actually look at the figures dispassionately.
post #2174 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Well, I'm sure Variety knows what they're talking about, too.

But, what exactly did they say?
post #2175 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

There is a search function here, no? The gist of it was that Blu-Ray sales, both hardware and software were disappointing in a pretty large way.
post #2176 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Was it this one? "Blu-ray still waiting for sunny days"
Blu-ray still waiting for sunny days - Entertainment News, Weekly Film, Media - Variety
post #2177 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyFeldman
There is a search function here, no? The gist of it was that Blu-Ray sales, both hardware and software were disappointing in a pretty large way.
Sales figures suggest otherwise.

Sure, just about all product sales are down this year except what essentials, families are buying at their local Wal-Marts or similar retailers. However, Blu-ray sales isn't one of those products.

Here are some articles that show sales forecasts have been downgraded which isn't a surprise since most discretionary items spending has been down the second half of this year. However, unlike DVD in which sales are down, Blu-ray sales have increased, but not to the levels previously forecasted due to you know what, the economy going into the dumper.

Overall, Blu-ray sales are doing fine this year just not to earlier forecasts, but it's still making inroads into the overall home video sales numbers.

Blu-ray sales projections lowered due to economy - 11/14/2008 - Video Business

Sony Says Blu-Ray Sales Short of Forecasts - News and Analysis by PC Magazine

Blu-ray sales poised to eat away at DVD - TECH.BLORGE.com

IGN Advertisement

The Dark Knight Blu-Ray Sales Shatter All Records: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

Sony?s Bishop: Blu-ray Sales Are Encouraging | homemediamagazine.com
post #2178 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
Here are some articles that show sales forecasts have been downgraded
By a massive 25%! I didn't realise it was that bad!
[predicting $650 million to $800 million in Blu-ray sales, with Bishop plotting $750 million to $850 million. The estimates revise predictions by most studios earlier in the year that Blu-ray title sales would hit $1 billion this year. ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
Overall, Blu-ray sales are doing fine this year just not to earlier forecasts, but it's still making inroads into the overall home video sales numbers.
I doubt many studio execs think 25% down on beginning of year predictions means sales figures are fine.

That article says that they don't think the industry will return to growth until the end of 2010, and it will be downloads, not Blu-ray that will provide the return to growth.
post #2179 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson
By a massive 25%! I didn't realise it was that bad!
[predicting $650 million to $800 million in Blu-ray sales, with Bishop plotting $750 million to $850 million. The estimates revise predictions by most studios earlier in the year that Blu-ray title sales would hit $1 billion this year. ]

I doubt many studio execs think 25% down on beginning of year predictions means sales figures are fine.

That article says that they don't think the industry will return to growth until the end of 2010, and it will be downloads, not Blu-ray that will provide the return to growth.
I don't know how the economy is doing where you live, but right now this country is in a deep recession and considering what's happening, blu-ray sales are doing a lot better than just about every other discretionary spending items.

I understand there is a certain segment of people that like to throw cold water on the future of Blu-ray adoption, but high definition is here to stay and most of us deep into home theater will eventually adopt high definition in one form or another.
post #2180 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

One more thing about earlier sales forecasts. I think they were too optimistic in those forecasts because they were formulated on the belief that this consumer economy we had in this country will continue to thrive in which people will buy things on credit and worry about paying off that credit later. Welcome to a new world for some people. Financial institutions are in deep trouble, retailers are going out of business because their credit lines have dried up and customer spending is down.

Yet, Blu-ray sales are still growing despite being down to the earlier forecasts because said forecasts were based on bad assumptions regarding this consumer economy. Blu-ray will continue to have growth, but SD DVD sales with 90% of the home video is driving the overall numbers down despite that growth.

Overall consumer spending on home entertainment is expected to decline 3% to 4% this year, Smith said, driven by a projected 6% drop in DVD sales.

When asked when growing Blu-ray sales will offset DVD declines, both Bishop and Sanders said it might be the end of 2010. Lionsgate president and co-chief operating officer Steve Beeks predicted the industry would turn around by late 2009, when including digital downloads in the home entertainment take.

“It will be toward the end of 2010 when you’ll see us back in the growth business,” said Bishop.


HM: Are you optimistic about year-end sellthrough revenue industry-wide for standard DVD? It was off just slightly at mid-year; do you expect a surge this month to at least equal 2007?


Bishop: We would be foolish to expect the standard-DVD numbers to come to 2007 levels. There are the obvious economic situations that are keeping people out of stores, and depending on the chain it can range from 5% down to 20% down in foot traffic. That is obviously going to have an effect on the business.


But that being said, the positive in all this is the momentum we are getting from Blu-ray. It is continuing to grow and 200% to 300% year-over-year, and the ratio of Blu-ray and DVD sales continues to rise. That calls for optimism. For anyone who said that people would just go to digital and skip Blu-ray that has certainly been proven not to be true. Even if you took Blu-ray separately as a revenue stream, it is probably 20 times larger than digital revenue.
post #2181 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
One more thing about earlier sales forecasts. I think they were too optimistic
Not wrong, they were out by 1/4!

For every 4 Blu-rays they thought they would sell, they only sold 3.
post #2182 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
I don't know how the economy is doing where you live, but right now this country is in a deep recession and considering what's happening, blu-ray sales are doing a lot better than just about every other discretionary spending items.
The economy has slowed here too, but not as dramatically as in the U.S. It is still growing, and unemployment has only increased slightly. Nothing like the chaos that is happening in the U.S.

Of course Blu-ray is selling, because it is a new format and no longer has any competition. If it wasn't selling it would go the way HD-DVD went.

But it obviously isn't selling anywhere near as well as the studios expected. I suggest that the price of the discs is one reason for that. People don't want to pay a few hundred US$ for a player, only to have to pay more for the discs than DVD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
I understand there is a certain segment of people that like to throw cold water on the future of Blu-ray adoption, but high definition is here to stay and most of us deep into home theater will eventually adopt high definition in one form or another.
Of course. I just wish the studios didn't gouge early adopters so much. They should just price the discs the same, so the transition to Blu-ray occurs quickly.
post #2183 of 2333
Thread Starter 

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
...didn't gouge early adopters so much. They should just price the discs the same...
Criterion, who already have all their masters in HD, do price the same - and in a few cases their Blu-rays are actually cheaper than their SD-DVDs. I suppose for some of the other production companies to move the transfer to HD - there is a cost. Generally, I find Fox a bit more expensive and Warner more reasonable but this was exactly the same with DVD - some discs giving better value than others - dependant on the title and what the package entails/includes. This is part of our 'consumer consideration' when deciding titles to purchase.

With over 100 million DVD players in the world I would expect a very gradual transition to blu-ray - especially with the current economic climate. Certainly there will be a market for DVD for a very long time to come. I doubt my site will ever stop totally covering DVD... but without referencing specific numbers I'll bet a ton of blu-ray machines sold this holiday season with post sales prompting many more.

I've been doing our Release Calendar on DVDBeaver for a few years (posting prominent upcoming releases) and am encouraged to see more and more blu-ray in the future. As home theater film fans, isn't it our desire to see masterpieces, classics and our favorites in the best possible sound and image?

Cheers,
post #2184 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Tooze
Criterion, who already have all their masters in HD, do price the same - and in a few cases their Blu-rays are actually cheaper than their SD-DVDs. I suppose for some of the other production companies to move the transfer to HD - there is a cost. Generally, I find Fox a bit more expensive and Warner more reasonable but this was exactly the same with DVD - some discs giving better value than others - dependant on the title and what the package entails/includes. This is part of our 'consumer consideration' when deciding titles to purchase.

With over 100 million DVD players in the world I would expect a very gradual transition to blu-ray - especially with the current economic climate. Certainly there will be a market for DVD for a very long time to come. I doubt my site will ever stop totally covering DVD... but without referencing specific numbers I'll bet a ton of blu-ray machines sold this holiday season with post sales prompting many more.

I've been doing our Release Calendar on DVDBeaver for a few years (posting prominent upcoming releases) and am encouraged to see more and more blu-ray in the future. As home theater film fans, isn't it our desire to see masterpieces, classics and our favorites in the best possible sound and image?

Cheers,
Yeah Criterion are doing the right thing pricing discs the same. All other companies should follow their lead.

I believe that Warner, Fox and Columbia have been mastering everything from HD sources for a few years now (though I read that some were mastered in 1080i, so they need to be done again, e.g. North By Northwest and Citizen Kane). A lot of my Columbia DVDs say they were mastered from HD, and I believe it became company policy to do everything from a HD source a few years ago.

Please don't construe my comments as a criticism of your website. It is your site you can do what you want with it, and since you buy and are sent so much I'm not surprised you are an early Blu-ray adopter. I visit your site every few days, and donated to it once. It has been an extremely useful source that has saved me a lot of money and frustration.
post #2185 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Personally, as much as I would like to get a Blu-ray player, I don't foresee that happening very soon. The economy, for one thing, and also just because it would entail getting all new equipment: a 1080p projector, new receiver, etc. to take advantage of the improved video and audio qualities to the fullest. That's just not possible right now.

Also, while Blu-ray is certainly an improvement over DVD, I won't deny that, I'm perfectly happy with my DVDs playing in the upconverting Oppo player, looking excellent, and, depending on the transfer, nearly HD-like. Plus, there are a few formats on the horizon that, if realized, will overshadow Blu-ray. We'll just have to wait and see.
post #2186 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Tooze
Criterion, who already have all their masters in HD, do price the same - and in a few cases their Blu-rays are actually cheaper than their SD-DVDs. I suppose for some of the other production companies to move the transfer to HD - there is a cost. Generally, I find Fox a bit more expensive and Warner more reasonable but this was exactly the same with DVD - some discs giving better value than others - dependant on the title and what the package entails/includes. This is part of our 'consumer consideration' when deciding titles to purchase.

With over 100 million DVD players in the world I would expect a very gradual transition to blu-ray - especially with the current economic climate. Certainly there will be a market for DVD for a very long time to come. I doubt my site will ever stop totally covering DVD... but without referencing specific numbers I'll bet a ton of blu-ray machines sold this holiday season with post sales prompting many more.

I've been doing our Release Calendar on DVDBeaver for a few years (posting prominent upcoming releases) and am encouraged to see more and more blu-ray in the future. As home theater film fans, isn't it our desire to see masterpieces, classics and our favorites in the best possible sound and image?

Cheers,

Yes, rather like laserdisc. I don't think anyone is throwing cold water on anything - I think there are people who read the reports, see through the hype, and state opinions. I understand that those who've shelled out the dough for Blu-Ray are going to be very vocal about it, just as the early adopters of HD-DVD were very vocal about it - until it died. Will I go to Blu-Ray? Sure - when the prices of the films comes down. I'm not interested in reinvesting in classic titles (I don't care about new films) until that happens - and you know what, a lot of other people aren't, as well. From the Variety article (and thanks to Simon for finding it):

"Thus far, Blu-ray hasn't had nearly as much success beyond the type of movies that appeal to men and feature digital effects that really pop in hi-def.

Comedies and family pics typically sell 5% to 7% of their discs in the format. Disney's re-release of "Sleeping Beauty," which was specifically done to boost Blu-ray, is believed to be selling only modestly so far."
post #2187 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson
Not wrong, they were out by 1/4!

For every 4 Blu-rays they thought they would sell, they only sold 3.
Yet, there were some in the industry in which their forecast was more realistic and less than a billion. I can't wait until next month, when the final 2008 sales numbers come out.




Crawdaddy
post #2188 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyFeldman
There is a search function here, no? The gist of it was that Blu-Ray sales, both hardware and software were disappointing in a pretty large way.

There certainly IS a search function here.

And, frankly, my expectation was that if you are going to make a point criticizing Gary for reviewing too much Blu-ray for your liking, I would think it would be incumbent upon you to back up your "disappointing sales" statement with your own proof rather then tell the readers to find it themselves.

I have read a number of articles on Blu-ray sales...especially in the last quarter of '08 that seemed to indicate Blu-ray was getting a good toe-hold in the home video market--which, to me, seemed to indicate that BD was going to become a "player" in the mainstream market rather than just a "niche." Personal observation at my local Best Buy was enough to tell me that, as well, since the Blu-ray aisle was continually jammed this holiday season and product was flying out of that store.

Robert (& Simon) were kind enough to post the links to present evidence on sales figures. If the article Simon posted is the one (from Variety) that you referenced I certainly don't see anything in there to indicate that Blu-ray is in any major trouble of becoming a dead format. Robert's claim that purchases in general are down is certainly backed up in every current article about the economy. The reports of sales of Blu-ray copies of The Dark Knight were crazy!

But I make no claim to be an economics expert and say tha Blu-ray is here to stay or simply a stop-gap measure between SD-DVD and some future digital medium. But Blu-ray is here now and for many HT enthusiasts is their medium of choice.

You just can't assume that everyone else on the forum has read the same threads/articles that you have. If you are going to start a dialogue in a given thread you need to be able to provide whatever evidence you have to back up your claim.

It might also have served you better to simply ask Gary if his site could review more SD-DVD material...maybe because you and many others have not yet made the switch to HD (like PaulP) and are having a hard time finding reviews of the products in which you are interested. Instead of criticizing his site for what they are doing (and doing well) you might find a better reception to your cause by asking for help rather than laying down a cloak of criticism based on an argument you seemed ill-prepared to defend. Bees are attracted to honey....and so forth.
post #2189 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson

But it obviously isn't selling anywhere near as well as the studios expected. I suggest that the price of the discs is one reason for that. People don't want to pay a few hundred US$ for a player, only to have to pay more for the discs than DVD.

Of course. I just wish the studios didn't gouge early adopters so much. They should just price the discs the same, so the transition to Blu-ray occurs quickly.
I've been campaigning for a price adjustment for over a year now. These studios are hard-headed. I think Warner and Sony understands it, but the others like Fox and Disney don't get it that titles like Sleeping Beauty and various comedies are not selling as they hope is because the pricing is too high?

This is no longer an early adopter market. It's a mainstream market now and the studios need to recognize that if they want the BRD market to grow to the level of 1.7M out of 13.5M total units sold for "The Dark Knight" for every title, they need to shrink the pricing disparity between SD DVD and BRD. Of course, I'm talking about percentage of video sales (12.5%) not 13.5M units sold for other titles like comedies and children's movies.

I read somewhere that 15-20% of the video sales market actually buys more than 50% of total video sales. That percentage consists of us that frequent this forum and other forums like HTF.





Crawdaddy
post #2190 of 2333

Re: Direct Graphic DVD Comparisons now Online!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyFeldman
Yes, rather like laserdisc. I don't think anyone is throwing cold water on anything - I think there are people who read the reports, see through the hype, and state opinions. I understand that those who've shelled out the dough for Blu-Ray are going to be very vocal about it, just as the early adopters of HD-DVD were very vocal about it - until it died. Will I go to Blu-Ray? Sure - when the prices of the films comes down. I'm not interested in reinvesting in classic titles (I don't care about new films) until that happens - and you know what, a lot of other people aren't, as well. From the Variety article (and thanks to Simon for finding it):

"Thus far, Blu-ray hasn't had nearly as much success beyond the type of movies that appeal to men and feature digital effects that really pop in hi-def.

Comedies and family pics typically sell 5% to 7% of their discs in the format. Disney's re-release of "Sleeping Beauty," which was specifically done to boost Blu-ray, is believed to be selling only modestly so far."
You don't have to take my word on this, but titles like "Casablanca", "The Searchers" and "The Third Man" look so much better in high definition than they do on SD DVD. The first time I watched "Casablanca" on HD DVD, I had tears coming out of my eyes and it was like watching it brand new all over again. I did a "A" versus "B" test with the latest SD DVD and Ingrid Bergman never looked more beautiful than she does in high definition whether on HD DVD or BRD.





Crawdaddy
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