Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go - Page 10

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Honestly, that doesn't form much of a problem for me, either. That's what I especially loved about the movie while I was thinking about it last night going to sleep - its so tightly made that not only does it allow for multiple interpretations, it really is a film where you can't say "This definately only works this way". When I initially finished watching it, I immediately said "OK, future Tom and Tomas are both fictional/metaphors", but as I thought about it, there seemed to be just too much "realness" to future Tom to make him a dream state. However, it seems that again, the overarching message doesn't change, nor does the importance of the film, no matter how you take it in.

Very strange - I usually loathe movies that aren't at least somewhat clear cut. This type of ambiguity drives me nuts. Perhaps it was just so well crafted that causes me to feel the way I do. But I really do feel this will go down as one of my all time favorite films.

Oh, and Warner better be readying this for HD-DVD. The HD trailer on my 360 looked gorgeous enough, but I want the whole shebang now with some Dolby TrueHD.

And I agree on the score, too. Just incredible.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I just saw it & I liked it my Mother didn't. She wanted an explaination at the end. I got this 2001/12 Monkeys vibe from this movie.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

www.amazon.com/Fountain-Darren-Aronofsky/dp/0789314959/sr=8-3/qid=1164533514/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/002-1305086-0220037?ie=UTF8&s=books


Cool.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

In a year of otherwise mediocre scores, besides James Newton Howard's "Lady in the Water", I really hope Clint Mansell receives a nomination. The score is beautiful yet haunting, like the film.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

i read that there is NO CG FX, or at least minimally used in this film.

can you guys believe it after watching it?

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

That was awesome Patrick.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I can - and its absolutely gorgeous. The space scenes are simply breathtaking.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

ya'll think it's more realistic than CG or less?

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Personally I loathe CG composite shots most of the time - they are just too obvious to pick out, again, the majority of the time that is. Meanwhile, old school special effects from 2001, Blade Runner, and the like hold up suprisingly well.

That said, I find any type of nebula like effect absolutely enthralling - but I'm a space geek like that. The entire look of Xibalba was just captivating.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Glad you liked it, though the interpretation that Chuck quoted from Chud is probably more valid as well as the film takes some pains to show us Tommy tattooing the "ring" on his left ring finger, and we see it on the Thomas's ring finger. My interpretation is just more romantic in terms of a book bringing forth a life of its own, outliving its authors, as it were, in some respects.

Also, the film ends with the divergence of outcomes upon Thomas's acceptance of the cycle of life and death within the nebula (like deja vu):

Say we accept that Thomas is simply future Tommy, then at the point where he leaves the orb and accepts death within the Xibalba nebula, instantly his past is changed from the point where Izzie wants Tommy to see the first snow, and this time, after accepting death as part of the cycle of life, he does go with Izzie to see the first snow, and never operates on the ape/monkey and never finds a way to eternal life, but spends time with Izzie, and finally ends up planting a seed on her burial plot, maintaining the cycle of life and death. Again, to piggyback on "Deja Vu", a choice in the future with more understanding of the situation totally changes the past, perhaps for the better, or just with more acceptance of what is will be, that drinking from the tree of life isn't the nectar it appears to be.

This is why if you extend the literal interpretation (Thomas and the tree's journey to the nebula), you can still shoehorn the completion of the book for the final expression of what Izzie and Tommy mean to one another in the present day. It becomes sort of a paradox that only happens if Tommy goes to operate on the ape/monkey, finds the key to what seems to be eternal life, makes the journey to the nebula, but then finally accepts death's role in life, and he spins back to never finding eternal life, but the meaning of life in death, something more precious than eternal life.

Also, as Quentin alluded to before, Thomas's trip could also be simply a fervent dream that Tommy has, and with all the personal details (inked wedding band, etc), it allows Tommy to expolate the trappings of eternal life, but he subconsciously makes the leap to not fear death, but accept it, and that gives him the ending for the book because he finally comes to grips with what Izzie already had for one's mortality, but could never convince Tommy until he had his own catharsis.

(Yes, I've been hopped up on cough medicine lately.)


Some directors make escapist fare for films, but Aronofsky is making cinematic art, and it's that sensibility that does allow the viewer to come to their own interpretation while also embracing the primal message within the film from different angles and personal journeys.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I also have to chime in about the music. The score has been haunting me since I saw the film, and since the local Borders has it in the store and it's reasonably priced (especially for Borders), I may go ahead and pick it up instead of waiting for Christmas.

I think this film is going to settle my in list of top 5 or so films; I also think it's going to be one of those films that I only watch every so often, as to keep the impact as fresh and powerful as possible.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I've had that book in my cart for weeks, Mike. I pulled the trigger last night.

I thought the visual effects were extraordinary. Better than CG in the way that practical effects usually are.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I want to give this film a chance, especially as it has a number of enthusiastic supporters and it seems to have been too easily dismissed by the at-large filmgoing community for little more than (1) reports of a troubled production history, and (2) a somewhat out of the ordinary milieu. On the other hand, I should also mention that citations to "Aronofsky's brilliance" based on the two prior films I've seen seem wildly overblown.

And while it's hard to always discern one's predilections and prejudices, I think I went into this film hoping to like it, perhaps even egoistically hoping to divine the brilliance that other less sensitive viewers might have missed or dismissed. On the other hand, I'm not as keen on "Pi" or "Requiem" as just about everyone on this forum, and so a failure might confirm my less than glowing appraisal of Aronofsky.

And I find myself caught somewhere in between. While I admire much of what I saw - as well as Aronofsky's persistence of vision in bringing this to the screen - I can't help but think that the film all boils down to one rather pat, even hackneyed observation: the journey of life is ultimately the acceptance of death, and love makes the trip worthwhile. It's a fine enough sentiment, but one that's been expressed a gazillion times before and with greater depth, majesty, and sensitivity. Examples might include anything from Bresson's best films to Walt Disney's childrens films, with "The Fountain" hovering a bit closer to the latter in terms of psychological depth - after all, is there anything more to Aronofsky's themes here than what our children learned about "the cycle of life" in a film like "The Lion King"?

On first viewing, I see nothing more interesting here in terms of psychological or philosophical insight. Just a shopworn truism dressed up in a nice overcoat of fancy and fantasy. And nice SFX.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Well...this is not Mouchette, you're right. But, I would argue it is far deeper and tougher than The Lion King. For one thing, it deals intensely with the human denial of death - the "kicking and screaming" part. The Lion King is far simpler and pat.

Still...there is no denying the message of The Fountain is simple. Read through this thread - no one disputes that.

But, while films before have delved deeper into this universal theme...I'm not convinced any have made me FEEL the journey the way The Fountain did. It has something to do with the structure and the imagery, I'm sure. But, I think it also has something to do with the couple - because Tom and Izzi are coming at it from such different angles, we learn a little more than just "the journey of life is ultimately the acceptance of death, and love makes the trip worthwhile". We learn something about the human part of that equation. Jackman and Weisz give that to us in spades.

Next time you watch it, forget the beauty of the FX. Just watch the two performers.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

The three narrative strands are unified in that they are all telling (more or less) the same story, but in different terms: A man, driven by his love for a woman, seeks immortality but ultimately must come to grips with both her death and his own.

The conquistador is granted immortality, but not in the way he expected--he "dies," but is regenerated and reborn through the flora. I wouldn't say his quest fails, any more than future Tom "fails." He succeeds in an unexpected way, becoming a part of the process of death and rebirth.

The difference, it seems, is in his attitude. Tomas the conquistador seems horrified when this happens. Future Tom understands that this is his fate and accepts it willingly. I guess you could call that "character development," even if it's not supposed to literally be the same character.

As Chuck says, you can try to tease out the "literal" connections between the three stories, or you can accept them as variations on a theme. A story told as historical adventure, contemporary medical drama, and futuristic sci/fi allegory.

As I said a few pages ago, I'm partial to the idea that the contemporary story is the only "real" one, and future Tom is not literally Tom 500 years from now, but rather the way that Tom chooses to finish Izzy's narrative. It just seems too far-fetched that he would somehow figure out a way to "bake" Lizzy into the tree, obtain a spaceship that appears to be a big bubble of water, and travel all the way to a distant star while timing his arrival perfectly with the supernova. That does seem...well, silly.

But viewed as an allegory of Tom's spiritual journey, I think it's wonderful. I'm surprised Devin at C.H.U.D., one of this film's biggest online champions, seems to be holding on to a literal interpretation of the futuristic segments. But, Aronofsky does leave enough tantalizing threads in the contemporary story (the finding of the mysterious tree in Guatemala, Tom's discovery of an apparent cure for senescence) to allow the interpretation.

On the other hand, just to play devil's advocate against my own position...does it make much sense for Tom to "finish" Izzy's story of the conquistador with a sci-fi allegory? Not unless you have the contemporary material to bridge the two. Did Tom also "write" the contemporary scenes? Some of them? All of them? This may be plausible, as there does seem to be a bit of revision going on at one point, when he chooses to follow Izzy out into the snow.

So...I've finished this post less sure of my interpretation than when I began.

Great effing movie.

--Jefferson Morris

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Rich,
I know I can't say it went over your head I agree that the film is simple. I think that is part of the beauty. I think Quentin was correct when he said the film was about the human (and Western philosophy) part of that equation. I think the emotional journey is critical, and why the film is so good for us fans.

It's not what a film is about, but how it is about it. - Ebert

The Fountain carries the audience along the emotional ride, and makes the truism more meaningful for me.

Listened to most of the score today. Best of the year, quite easily.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Wow. I feel as I've barely scratched the surface. As with Requiem, but significantly moreso, this is completely new cinematic territory. To me, whether or not future Tom is literal is immaterial, as others have stated in this thread; either way, we're seeing the Jackman persona comes to terms with the cyclic nature of the system of things. The last 20 minutes are staggering in their ability to communicate an emotion, a sense of understanding and discovery, in purely cinematic terms. The first cut to Jackman in space reminded me of the bone/spaceship match cut in 2001. And Tom and Isabel in the bubble, at the end, with Isabel repeating those lines and Tom's expression...man, I don't even know what to say. The image of Jackman running out to be with Isabel in the snow is an image that will stay with me for a long time. This is an unbelievably uplifting film, in the most sincere way, and the most emotionally satisfying picture I've seen in, uh, a year (the other being Malick's The New World). To me, those two films stand (tentatively) as the towering pillars of cinema in the 21st century.

Regards,
Nathan

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I'd like to note my objection for the record.

I think both are important...a film has to have a worthwhile message but convey that message in a crafty way.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I've always taken that quote to refer to the physical subject matter of the film, as opposed to the message it's imparting. For example, Nashville (a film I love) is a near-3 hour film "about" country music (which I loathe), but how Altman sees the subject matter makes me love the film. At least, that's how I've interpreted it. Somebody recently asked me what the Good German is "about," and I told them, "it's by that guy, Steve Soderbergh." That's all I need to know to be interested in it.

Regards,
Nathan

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

100% agreed here, Quentin. When I went in expecting some difficult to understand film, while it was visually complicated, the plot was so very simple, and thats what I loved about it.

I finally do have a question for all of you though, one that has been bothering me (and yes, this has been all I could think about the last few days. Good movies haunt you!). What was the purpose of showing future Tom floating in the 1500 storyline being called "first father" by the Mayan guardian? That was one part I really just didn't get on my first go around, I kind of lost my attention for a moment and I can't recall that part of the story at all.

But just thinking about it, the most heartbreaking scene in the movie (the award moment for Mr. Jackman) is when he, in a fit of rage, crushed the lamp next to his bed and accidentally knocks over the gift of the pen and ink from Izzy. Then as he cries and remembers his lost wedding band, he decides to tattoo it on himself. Absolutely incredible.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I think it was Aronofsky's way of showing us Tommmy/Tom's acceptance of his part in the cycle of birth, life, death. Since the conquistador storyline was not "real", I think it was incorporated into the visuals to represent Jackman's character finding peace with death.


IMNSHO, I think Jackman deserves a nomination for this - whether it's a Golden Globe or an Oscar. While Tom and Izzy are to a large degree symbolic characters (purposefully), Jackman really infuses the various incarnations of Tom with vitality, passion, and life.

I'm going to try and see this film again this weekend, assuming it's still showing. Might drag along a couple of friends as well - it's really stayed with me, and I want to experience it again. I really hope Warners relents on their bare-bones only plans for DVD release. This is a film that demands a rich treatment (artistically - I know it's not a money maker, which is the final arbiter for these decisions).

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

saw jackman on conan. what a very personable guy! i luv his stories. the way he tells it always keeps me interested. there's just a down-to-earth-aw-shocks australian feel about him. i really like it.

some of the best directors are great verbal storytellers. if you watch spielberg interviews, when he tells a story, it always captivates you. or PJ's interviews. or james cameron.

i think good directors should be able to tell interesting stories verbally like the days of ancients prior to directing. so, if jackman directed, i would watch it =).

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Saw "The Fountain" again today, and it was even better the second time around. I really felt for Tommy when he learns that the tumor hadn't subsided in the monkey after the treatment, and from that sequence to when Izzi tells Tommy at the exhibit of the Mayan artifacts about how life can be obtained in death, simply emotional sequences that just work on many levels, mucho tears just welling to be let free.

Not sure if anyone has yet mentioned that "Creo" means "I believe" in Spanish.

The "end" for Tomas is foretold so beautifully by Izzi at the hospital when she holds Tommy and tells him of the friend who spoke of his father dying, but with the tree planted upon his grave, his father was eventually able to soar with the birds.

Just received the book referenced in post #273 by Mike, can't wait to read it, it's a nice hardcover book (didn't realize it was a hardcover), and thanks for the Google checkout bonus, it was much more affordable.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Positive review of The Fountain by Stuart Davis of Integral Naked's Stuart Davis Show. Actually it is more of a blog entry but nice to see people getting it.

http://stuartdavis.com/node/1134

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

If you see this film a second time, you'll smile when you hear Izzi's whispers of "finish it" in the first part of the film when scenes of future Tommy are first shown.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Saw it last night. LOVED it. I really can't understand a lot of the hate it's getting. I loved it from start to finish. Amazing film.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

A definite keeper for me. One of the best films I saw this year. I cried during parts of this film. Hugh Jackman was amazing in this movie.

Score: A

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I just got back from it. Interesting experience. I still need time to get my head around.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Not as in love with this movie as most are here, but found the use of visual motifs to be most arresting. The circular shapes, floods of light, hair and skin, and high camera angles made the movie more interesting to me than the material.

Agreed on Mansell's score. Seems like my favorite scores of the year--Lady in the Water, The Black Dahlia, X3-- are all poorly reviewed movies, making them have less chance to get recognition.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Saw it for the second time yesterday. While nothing can replicate the first viewing, it was fantastic this time through, too.

Anyone notice that Tommy's surgical crew called him "Captain," the rank of Tomas the conquistador?

And I LOVED how the film began. DA created a dark, dangerous vibe to the scene where the three soldiers advanced towards the pyramid steps; it almost felt like a horror film or gritty Indiana Jones film. And yet it completely fit; it didn't jar negatively when we abruptly switched to Tom in the bubbleship.

I've been listening to the score nonstop since I bought; it's definitely one of the most beautiful and engaging I've ever heard. I think this film ought to be up for all sorts of awards - score, best actor, visual effects, editing...