Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go - Page 9

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Lastly, something I really appreciated afterward...

My experience with the film (and, it really is an experience) was identical to Tommy's experience. At first, my mind insisted on answers. What is happening? What does this represent? How does this fit? My mind is winning the battle over my heart as I watch the film.

But, when he finally confronts Izzy and gives in, so did I. The tears came and I gave in to the experience of the film. I let go.

I don't know if the film is specifically structured to deliver this sort of experience or I just got lucky. But, if it is designed, then major kudos to Aronofsky.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I definitely agree with this.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I also admired the directness of the sex/birth imagery when Tomas the conquistador smears the white "sap" into his wound and gives birth from it. David Cronenberg himself would be proud, and Aronofsky pulled it off within the confines of a PG-13 rating.

This all connects nicely with the bathtub scene. Like the tree with which she is identified, Izzy is emerging from the water, and that scene takes a sexual turn as well.

The repeated upside-down/rightside-up camera moves struck me as a creative way to make the objects on screen, which are moving horizontally over the Earth, appear to be moving upward, from the bottom of the screen to the top of the screen--ascending. This ascension mirrors the voyage of the bubbleship, which is steadily moving "upward" toward the nebula the entire time.

--Jefferson Morris

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I seriously can't wait to see this again. I also greatly preferred the film, because the imagery is superior than to the GN.

It's a puzzle box, and so many images relate back to one another. The stories almost fold in upon each other.

I have let go of the tepid and vitriolic critical response It's OK. Some movies take a while to be appreciated. Usually the deeper sci-fi films, and this is no different.

Are any Best Buy's open today? I want the score.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I want the Clint Mansell score as well, but it does not get released until 11/29.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

http://www.nonesuch.com/thefountain/

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Well, I used iTunes. Cheaper, and already on my iPod.

According to websites, the score is out, though good luck finding it. Half of my Best Buys have it...half don't. According to the "Store Inventory", at least.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

That people walked out on this film makes me extremely sad. We've become so used to being spoon-fed by movies, TV and books that any story that requires constant attention and rewards discussion, reflection and multiple viewings is written off as pretentious and inaccesible.

I think this is the next Dark City - something that does not fare well in the theaters, but whose reputation and following will grow. Comparing it to 2001 is also apt, IMNSHO.

Kudos to DA, Jackman and Weisz for having the fortitude to make this film and story. I'm sure I don't understand half of it, but thought it was beautiful, moving, and worth my money at the theater and when it comes out on video.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Michael:

I haven't seen the movie yet, so I can't say whether it's pretentious, etc. But isn't it possible that you can be intelligent and not like The Fountain? Cause your post makes it sound like only a mental zombie could dislike the film.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Yes, but you can't walk out on it. If you walk out on it...you are a moron

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Ugh, I totally didn't get around to seeing this on Wednesday - but I've got a date for Saturday. I hope she doesn't think I'm a nutjob for wanting to see something "weird".

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

She may just love you forever.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Hahaha, touche!

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Just got back from this. I was confused at first, and then really into it for most of the way through, although the ending brought me back to being confused. I think it works best when the structure is at its most basic: relatively simple parallel stories in different time frames, with visual cues connecting them together. A few have already been mentioned, like the hairs on the tree-of-the-future and the hairs on Iz's neck and face. Another little one that I noticed is the way it's filmed when Tom is driving into the city to get to work, which parallels the way he rides his horse to Isabella's castle in the past.

The strengths of the main story are obvious enough--Weisz is radiantly beautiful, so the quest to keep her alive (or find the special tree to save her kingdom) is very dramatically solid. Ellen Burstyn adds some more class and dramatic seriousness. Jackman is good as well, though it seemed like he spent an awful lot of on-screen time crying, which felt repetitive after a while. The heavy use of close-ups also seemed a bit much. The balance was good in the medieval sequences, with the big inquisition hall and royal chambers gradually giving way to the full-screen close-ups linking the knight and the queen. But the current-day scenes could have used a more judicious touch regarding the super-close intimate shots.

The last few sequences went awry for me as they got more and more complicated, in contrast to the pretty straightforward development of the stories up to that point. The flowers-growing-out-of-the-body thing seemed like some bizarre cross between Indiana Jones & Last Crusade and Yellow Submarine.

Overall, I think The Fountain works very well when it plays out as a simple story with a complicated and creative structure, which is the case for most of the movie, but it would have been more successful had they stuck to that all the way through, in lieu of the head-scratching denoument that makes things a lot more enigmatic than necessary.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Not what I meant. I can easily understand disliking the film for intelligent reasons. But usually people walk out on not films that intrigue, infuriate, or challenge. They walk out on Howard the Duck.

This is a beautiful, earnest and profound movie. Someone calling it "pretentious" at least pays it the respect of taking it seriously (though I'd strongly disagree); calling it nonsensical just means they're likely not used to engaging their brains while watching a film (the fact that Steve Martin continues to make "family comedy" films underscores this point - the guy's a smart, gifted comedian and his biggest cinematic successes are formulaic dreck).


(BTW, I had a similar reaction to people saying "how hard" The Matrix was to understand when it was first released. I love that film, and while it has its flaws, being "hard to understand" isn't one of them.)

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Well, I'm not so sure about that. The Fountain may be an amazing film (can't wait to see it) but it's themes and messages may not be communicated in a way that everyone can understand and process. That doesn't make them morons, in my book. Just means they don't speak Aronofsky's language.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

If you don't get euphoric chills in at least 3 places during the last 20 minutes of this film, you have no pulse.

I'm not budging on this issue.


It's been 6 years since we've experienced an Aronofsky film, and although the editing style is as different from "Requiem" as "Requiem" was from "Pi", this picture feels uniquely like only one filmmaker. Aronofsky, with only 3 films to his credit, is a master stylist speaking a very unique cinematic language. It's truly a pleasure experiencing the beginnings of this career.

I can definitely see folks not enjoying the film (at least on first viewing). We live in a world that is all about repressing the harsh truth of our egos one day ceasing to exist in this material plane. To ponder this constantly and obsessively is not healthy in a societal sense, so it's understandable. But this is a piece of art, and Aronofsky wants to achieve a certain emotionality by the end of the narrative (which he does, by the way, smashingly). So he has structured, layered and shuffled his film through 3 time periods (a kinda non-linear version of Kubrick's patented story structuring), for the constricting purpose of forcing the viewer to be locked up in obsessive psyches overwhelmingly and unbearably dealing with/facing death.

Unless you are freely and philosophically open to this - or perhaps it hits home in a current or past sense (ie: loved one sick) - the first two thirds of the film (no matter how well acted and visually evocative) are gonna feel mighty constricting. Not only is the subject dour, the actual telling of it is what is truly unmercilessly methodical regarding it's theme.

But ooooh, does it pay off.

This film is simply about the the cathartic and peaceful acceptance of death. It's about coming to an understanding of it's place in the cosmos. But it's not so much about telling us something in a didactic sense.

It's about making us feel it.

Or to put it another way, it's about expressing - in extremely cinematic terms - the epiphany of freeing one's self from our collective state of misery.

Can't wait to see it again tomorrow.

BTW, I believe Hugh Jackman's performance could very well be nominated for SOMETHING. The performance is too good and layered not to be noticed by some organization. I get very emotional just thinking about these portrayals.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Great moment. Very cathartic...him deciding...

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Chris, paying money to see The Fountain, and then walking out because it isn't a generic narrative story, makes you a moron Not liking it is perfectly acceptable. As Mike pointed out, the theme/message is a very difficult one for Western audiences, and the film allows no hiding from it within the narrative confines.

I also think Jackman did a tremendous job, as did Weisz. But Jackman is so much more present in the film. Critics have said he basically cried in every scene, but they must have watched a different film. He really carried the emotional burden throughout.

I eagerly await seeing it again.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Well, I kinda said that too.... I do like him, and he did do a good job, but I thought the repeated scenes where he cried lessened the impact in a couple of places. The scene where she finally dies in the hospital is extremely involving, but when it gets to him crying in the future over the loss of the tree, I didn't feel much of an impact. Not that someone in his situation wouldn't be shedding plenty of tears in real life, but I thought the emotional balance on-screen could have been better.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

As for the walk-out issue, what confuses me about anyone deciding to do that is:

(a) The beginning of the movie is pretty weird and enigmatic, but that doesn't last all that long. If you're gonna walk out because of that, it would have to happen quickly, in the first 20 minutes or so.

(b) Before too long, it becomes quite straightforward and easy to follow, at least in terms of the story. The structure is still sort of complicated, in that you're bouncing back and forth between different time periods, but it's not hard at all to follow what's going on. Not sure why anyone would feel the urge to leave during this stretch (it's also the best part of the movie).

(c) It gets strange and confusing again near the end, but that's what, the last 15 minutes or so? But if you're going to walk out at that point, why not stick it out to the end? It's almost over anyway.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Chuck:

If you went to hear a presentation, and the presenter spoke in Italian, Japanese, or any other language which you did not speak, you wouldn't be a moron if you left halfway through the presentation. Now, if you knew the presentation was in a foreign language, but you went anyway, then yes, you are a moron.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

It's in English

I see your point...sort of. But there is a difference between being UNABLE to process data...and being unwilling. Walkout's are those who are unwilling Haggai's explanation of the structure is correct. I think the end will lock into place a little tighter on subsequent viewings. It's very open to interpretation. Considering how structured the film is, it is not at all weird for weird's sake. I am still processing some of the story choices at that point.

But I am happy to do it.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

So let's get some discussion on what's really going on here.

When I first saw the trailer, I figured all three Jackman's were the same person, that they found the tree of life in 1500 and used it and now they were living forever.

But after watching the movie, it's apparent that the 1500 Jackman is just Izzi's book and what happens in it up to the point where Tommy must finish it.

A friend said he thought the future Jackman was the same as the present one and the tree was the one that grew over Izzi. Tommy took some never die elixir and is now in the future traveling to the nebula.

Certainly plausable but it seemed more likely to me that it was Tommy's chapter of the book, his final acceptance.

If the past is Izzi's part of the book, what's the meaning of Tomas finding the tree but dying at its hands? His quest is futile? (ie: his quest to find a cure for Izzi)

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

This is how I see the film's story, I hope my interpretation is how it was intended to be perceived after digesting it and deconstructing it (because once I did this, I thought even better of the film, it's just that the fractured narrative device takes on a life of its own, which makes it a little daunting for some to sit through the first time):

You can say that Izzie's book, set in the 1500's, was a rumination of present-day Tommy's obsession with finding a cure for her terminally tumorous condition. That story itself (in the book) is about Tomas looking to conquer death for Isabella, but in that story, Izzie's tale has Tomas (after much trial and tribulations of obstacles, fuled by fervent determination, much like Tommy in the present day) finding what appears to be the Fountain where reportedly life is sustained, forever as it were. What Tomas finds is that the sap from the tree can mend wounds (like doctors can do now), but in the end, it is Tomas who ends up sustaining life for the tree and other forms of life on a grander scale in a cycle of life and death at the fountain through his own death.

Tommy is presented with a final wish by Izzie, to finish the book she started. It is one that Tommy finishes, but only after Izzie passes away, much to Tommy's tumultuous helplessness in trying and ultimately failing to cure her. What Izzie understood was the cycle of life must embrace death, it's an understanding that Tommy isn't willing to accept at this point in his life. Then he goes about to finishing the book because Izzie wanted him to do so.

Tommy starts the final chapter, it deals with a man (I'll call him Thomas) travelling through the stars, half a millenia from now, with the tree of his life in an orb-like starship. The tree sustains him on the journey to the nebula that promises eternal life (relating back to Izzie and Tommy's conversation outside their window on a winter day as she looked towards the stars and pointed out the nebula for Tommy and the lore of it), but Tommy's story does so with visions of past relationship between Tommy and Izzie, Tomas and Isabella, their relationship producing the beat for the dance of life and death connected through the attractive force of love between them.

The substenance offered by the tree is a metaphor of Izzie's love sustaining Thomas through his journey to ascertain eternal life. As the story cuts between Tommy and Thomas and Tomas, Tommy comes to understand that in the end, he must travel alone. We see Thomas break out from the sphere carrying him and the tree, and he alone, with Izzie's love (the bits of bark of the tree) sustaining him and propelling him, and Thomas finally relinquishes his pursuit of everlasting life and gives into the cycle of life and death (shown in spectacular fashion on the screen). Tommy finally understands what Izzie was telling him, and he is able to accept her death and move on with his life, with less regret, and more understanding of his place in the universe. Thus ends the book, The Fountain, as written by Izzie and Tommy.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

I took in a second viewing today, and about 2/3rds of the way through, I quit attempting to make the narrative fit (which is still a fun and meaningful game) within itself, and I just "went with the flow".

It's a deeply emotional film, and structured to allow various interpretations. Considering the primary theme is same in most of them, I don't think it particularly matters. I initially thought that Future Tom was a "possibility". There are particular links between future Tom and Tommy (the tattoos, the pen his wife gave him, his memories...). In the end, the film is about accepting death. Death is as natural as life, and our fear can be conquered.

After a second viewing, I am more content with the film, and I can't wait to watch it again. I'd like Criterion to pick it up and add a commentary by Darren. There are some outstanding scenes in between the leads.

But I think it primarily exists for the emotional connection, not a narrative puzzle.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

As Chuck says...in the end, it doesn't really matter. It's all about the acceptance of death as part of the life cycle.

But, if we want to break it down in an attempt to decipher it I'd say there are 3 possibilities:

1 - As you and Patrick mention, the future Tom is Tommy's writing in an attempt to finish Izzie's book.

2 - Future Tom is a figment of Tommy's imagination. Whether it is a fever dream, dream of grief, recurring nightmare, or whatever. It is his subconcious attempt to struggle with what Izzy meant by "finish it".

3 - Future Tom really is alive in the future. He is Tommy, living an inordinate lifespan (as evidenced by the rings) because his experimentation on the baboon and his discovery of the tree enzyme led to a true fountain of youth. Unfortunately, the enzyme was not in time to save Izzy. But, by using it on himself, he was able to live long enough to watch the tree he planted over Izzy's body grow old and attempt to take it straight to Xibalba, hoping to resurrect her. Clearly, a looooong life of denial.

Either way you go, what IS important to note is that by accepting death inside Xibalba and changing the moment he goes to enjoy the 1st snow with Izzy, he bypasses surgery and does NOT make the enzyme discovery. In other words, he chooses life in the moment over eternal life out of it. His choice allows him to say goodbye when he plants the seed.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

My new favorite movie.

And yeah, there are definately multiple interpretations imo - I got both the idea that both The future and past visions of Tommy were parts of the story "The Fountain", and that both the current Tommy and future Tommy were the real ones.

Overall I think I'd prefer the idea that only the current day Tommy was the real one, but ultimately, as it has been said, the way which that is interpretated is rather minor. It is his ability to see life after death and his coping with the death of Izzi that is the important part.

And yes, If Jackman doesn't at the very least get nominated for best actor (which he probably won't), I'm going to be very, very disappointed.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

On second viewing, my eyes began to water the moment Mansell's score started up. Definitely didn't do that the first time. Probably had something to do with the music's association with the 3rd act.

Yeah, just like the graphic novel, it got even more vivid the second time.

Re: Darren Aronofsky's sci-fi epic "The Fountain" set to go

Some thoughts, stolen from someone who'd seen the film more and discussed it with the director (from CHUD):

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I can buy that. I still think it's more about how you feel than what you think.