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Donnie Darko...a very strange movie - Page 9

post #241 of 357
Thanks Seth for your opinion on the matter. I too think that he had that kind of "waking up from a dream" feeling like the others in the film have, however, is concern throughout the film over whether we die alone makes me feel as if his death was a foregone conclusion at the end. Whether or not he accepts his death by not getting up is still a mystery to me. All I know is that the movie has stayed in my head for 4 days now. There aren't too many movies that do that to me anymore.
post #242 of 357
Now why doesn't he get back up once he fixes things?

I always felt he somehow had to die, as originally would have happened. In fact, the only time Donnie seems to be happy is when he knows he is going to die.
post #243 of 357
Quote:
It just feels to me like you're trying to kill the discussion. I am happy to entertain the notion that the film makes no sense but rather than throwing around easy to make statements, why not bring up specific points in the film so we can discuss them. Isn't that the point of this thread and board after all?

I did raise several points and asked several questions before, but I got lambasted for doing so. Since then I've purchased DD, because I've accepted that the director lost his way. ...and that it makes sense to accept DD for what it is (a damn good movie that came off the logistical tracks), rather than trying to make sense of it. Am I not allowed to share that point of view?
post #244 of 357
PS: I'm with John Rice in that I think that he had to die. The problem of course is that the engine appearing out of nowhere (alternate world) happened before that event, which essentially takes away the significance of his death in saving the world.

Cool movie though.
post #245 of 357
Bryant,

How many times do you have to share the SAME view? 3 times in the last 2 pages alone.

I'm glad you've "accepted that the director lost his way" but exactly how does repeating this over and over like a mantra add to anyone else's understanding. And what if the rest of us do not accept that assessment?

I am interested in hearing your points rather than these generalizations. Please point them out - I've been meaning to give DD another watch and it would give me things to look out for.
post #246 of 357
I'm torn on the "accepting death" aspect too. It's hard to tell if this is supposed to be an essential aspect (though I think Roberta Sparrow's book does say that). She also mentions other time/alternate universe jumps, but those also included people being killed by a metal object (the transportation device for setting things right).

She talks of a man killed by a gun he had yet to finish making (IIRC) and another guy killed on a battlefield that had yet to have the battle that he would have been killed in. Or something like that, it's been awhile since I looked at it (didn't I post her stuff a few pages back?).


So it does seem like it is a critical part of the idea conceived by the writer/director here.

But there is also that feeling that it's not a scientific reason that he has to die, but moreso a philosophical reason. This is that feeling that John just mentioned. It's more like an emotional demand from the narrative, rather than a logical reasoning one (meaning, based on the physical rules established these things must occur).

But then I go back to thinking about what Sparrow wrote...

post #247 of 357
At the end, does Donnie remember everything he did or do you think he also experiences the dream-like quality. It seems like, to me, one can interpret his final smile either way.
post #248 of 357
I have a strong interpretation of Donnie's death. I feel he had lived his entire life hopelessly looking for a purpose. He wasn't satisfied with just existing. In the end, he not only gained some companionship through Gretchen, but his life gained true meaning with his death. This also touches on something someone recently said in this thread. I keep going back to the fact that the only time he was truly happy is when he accepted his place as well as his death.
post #249 of 357
Todd,

My points/questions are listed somewhere in this thread. I can't bother to chase them down, because I need no validation of my point of view (plus, I don't have the time to search). Feel free to look for them yourself though. I would wager that it's somewhere near pages 4,5,6.
post #250 of 357
My personal intrepetation of DD is that you have a kid who is totally detached from, and therefore rejects the concepts of life laid before him. The traditional conventions of morality and predestiny amazed Donnie, and while most saw him as strange, all he was really looking for was "the truth".

This tear in time/space/reality/whatever occurs for some reason (freak of time or reality perhaps?), and someone needs to correct it (not sure why, having not read the DVD book - something I refuse to do btw). So while everyone else is content to go through life like lemmings, it is Donnie who is chosen to correct things (see Berrymoore and Wylie's comments). Donnie is chosen by the supreme being, because he is looking to understand how life works.

His ability to see the projections of a person's intents, the alternate visions, etc., are all signs of Donnie's growing ability to see the "meaning of life" and do something about it. Then in the end, when he tunnels at the party he really gets it, and seeks to set things straight. He runs to the old lady's house, and the climax leads to two profound statements. I think they were, "Deus EX Machina!" "Our Saviour is here." To me this was the point where he fully understood the supreme being's plan.

And being able to understand the plan, he was able to play a role in setting things right. There would be a notion of redemption, because all the lemmings sort of realised that they were doing something wrong AFTER Donnie fixed things.

So why did Donnie have to die, or why did he choose to die? The easy part - he had to die as a sacrifice for the redemption (hence the Christ parallels). The hard part - Perhaps he chose to die because he no longer feared death. He understood the master plan, the meaning of life, etc. He was content, and therefore had no reason to live any longer...
post #251 of 357
I finally got around to watching this yesterday. I was excited about it last year when it came out, but it never played here...and for whatever reason I just forgot about it. When the DVD came out, I kept meaning to rent it...and finally I did. I, like many of you, love this film. I've watched it 3 times in the last 24 hours...and I'm floored by it every time.

I won't repeat what has already been said...but I just wanted to chime in with how much I loved this film!
post #252 of 357
Donnie Darko just made it down under on a limited theatrical release here in Australia. It's getting great reviews and so it should.
post #253 of 357
What a perfect movie to view in Oct. as the leaves are starting to let go and fly on a windy stormy night, the fall always makes me so restless. When I started this DVD up, it was lightening outside, I had my dB low unadjusted, and it took me a second to realize I had thunder rumbling around the surrounds in the background while on the DD menu.

I’ve noticed that movies that make extensive use of slow/trick shots with an well-integrated soundtrack stay with me the longest. It is often the ‘look’ and the ‘feel’ as much as the story line, which can rivet me.

Spoiler Follows:

I thought I had noticed the most extreme application (other than the Ensurance Trap) of a Manipulator from Sparrows ‘Rules’.
"They (Manipulated Living) are prone to irrational, bizarre, and often violent behavior. This is the unfortunate result of their task….The Manipulated Living will do anything to save themselves from Oblivion."

Dr. Thurman’s last ‘advice’ to Donnie goes something like: If the skies were to suddenly open up. There would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories. Of the choices you made and of the people you touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and .. him. (Frank) and no one else.

Although she’s not listed under notes as a manipulated Living. I felt it was a extremely bizarre thing for her to say at that time, where did it come from? It appears as though with what insight she had into Donnie's fears and motivations, she deliberately pushed on the key worries Donnie might be imagining if he did not choose correctly.

She knew he feared dying alone. If this world were to end there would only be you. (not just he would die alone but continue eternally to BE alone.
She knew Frank scared Donnie: and him…and no one else.
She knew he yearned for a ‘path’ a logical reason or structure behind the mad/mad world: There would be no law. There would be no rule.

I think I’m correct in that she was ‘manipulating’ Donnie at that moment. Her character had played disconnected and aloof until. “Who is Frank going to Kill, Donnie” and ‘How Soon” (will this all end)
She displayed emotion not exhibited in her earlier handling of Donnie and although it could be attributed to justifiable concern over what Donnie's ‘Frank’ might be getting up to next. Her voice seemed to display grief over Donnie's situation when she says and him. It is interesting to note that she was the first Character shown In Chap. 27. “Mad World”.

I’ve can obsess about a movie that has intrigued me for whatever reasons, for months. I’m now looking for Michael Andrews Score CD. But I noticed that of approx. 6 people who saw this movie over 2 viewing’s here at my home. All want to see it again and were amazed they had never heard of it. Thanks for your thread here. When my husband and I saw part of this film on satellite, I popped into the forum to see what it was all about and purchased the DVD (partly due to your musings here) the next night.
This film stays with you.
post #254 of 357
So who's dressing up as Frank this Halloween?

Rob
post #255 of 357
I'm glad this thread bubbled up recently, because I wasn't following this forum back when Donnie Darko came out so I've enjoyed reading it. I originally heard some positive word about this movie elsewhere and decided to rent it without knowing much about it. The first time I watched it was while my wife was out of town (she sometimes gets annoyed with my "wierd" movie picks, so I figured I'd watch this one without her first). I was so enthralled I ended up staying up till 5am to watch the movie and deleted scenes twice each (2nd time with commentary). I later purchased the DVD, and most people I've watched it with have loved it, though there have been a few who got too caught up in trying to understand every little plot detail and missed the forest through the trees.

I try not to analyze it too much, though I did listen to the commentaries and read the time-travel book. But for me the movie works on a more emotional level; something about it just sucks you in and totally engrosses you. And it's not just the story, but the cinematography, dialog, music (both score and 80's music), etc. I mean man, I haven't had a desire to listen to Tears for Fears in ages, but the scene when he gets off the bus that takes you through the school into the beginning of class is sheer genius; a perfect selection of music for a scene if there ever was one.

I like the way the family is portrayed. Hollywood seem to love the idea of tearing down traditional values by portraying middle-class suburban families as being entirely composed of shallow, disfunctional, utterly miserable wrecks. The Darko family wasn't perfect, but overall they were decent, loving people who were relatively happy. The performances were all very good, particularly Jake G. The only performance in the movie that I though was borderline weak was Drew Barrymore's. She wasn't terrible, but her performance wasn't up to the level of the others.

As for the plot, I agree that you can't understand everything based on just the movie itself. If I had seen this at theaters without being able to immediately view the supplemental information on the DVD, it would have been frustrating. Kelly was in a difficult position. The only way to really explain what was going on would have been to add some exposition by having Donnie discuss the book with somebody, either Noah's character or the shrink. The problem with that is how much do you discuss, and when? You don't want to give too much away too soon, that would ruin the movie. The way I look at it is that the movie itself isn't 100% complete as far as explaining the plot, you just have to accept the time travel book as a sort of "appendix" to help you understand what's going on.

One thing I will say is that after viewing the deleted scenes I can't help but think that too much was cut. There was some very good material in those deleted scenes. I think it was a mistake to try to cut out some of the Deus Ex Machine and Theology/Philosy stuff just for fear of getting to religious. It's not like those scenes were preachy or overtly religious. You can mention God without being a Bible story. I wonder whose actual decision it was to cut those scenes.

I know Kelly wasn't thrilled with the treatment of the DVD release, but considering the box office DD did, I'm pretty greatful that we got such a full-featured release (even if the cover is ugly).

This movie has definitely become one of my cult favorites that I will watch again and again. And that's a rare thing, there aren't too many movies that have that kind of staying power with me. Part of it probably has to do with me being about the same age as Donnie so it brings back some memories (I started high school in 88). The fact that this movie was the writing and directorial debut of a 26 year-old newcomer is incredible. I'll definitely be keeping my eye on Kelly (and Jake G) in the future.
post #256 of 357
Quote:
Although she’s not listed under notes as a manipulated Living. I felt it was a extremely bizarre thing for her to say at that time, where did it come from? It appears as though with what insight she had into Donnie's fears and motivations, she deliberately pushed on the key worries Donnie might be imagining if he did not choose correctly.

100% agree. Despite her not being listed I had no doubts in my mind that she was doing this to push him and was therefore a Manipulated Living.

Skies rip open type of talk is just too direct not to be so.

It's cool to see that some of the characters are ML but playing it much cooler (teachers, therapist) than some of the more irrational ones like Seth Devlin.

It also reminds me of the classic saying "Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."


Jeff, I can't remember if I posted the details of my first viewing way back when, but your situation was almost identical to mine. Fiancee out of town so I took the time to watch it since I wasn't sure she would dig it. At the time we had no neighbors so I could watch it late on the big screen with the sound up. Had to go right back into it, had to go out and buy it right away. Had to have her watch it with me ASAP.
post #257 of 357
I just saw Donnie Darko last night. Wow, this is a film that's going to stick with me for quite some time.

What an impressive and courageous first film for Kelly. This story is an original spin on numerous archetypal stories.

I'm going to watch this again before I form too many opinions.
post #258 of 357
Rise thread. Rise.

I was wondering if anyone came up with the title for the haunting piece of music that plays during Donnie's and Frank's exchange in the movie theater. I noticed that imdb has added the following title to their soundtrack listing for the film:

"Show Me"
Written by Quito Colayco and Tony Hertz
Courtesy of Associated Production Music LLC

Can anyone verify that this is the musical piece in question? And more importantly, does anyone know where I can get it if is, in fact, the correct title?

After all this time, I'm still obsessed.

Thanks for your time.
post #259 of 357
I'll raise this thread from the ashes.

I saw Donnie Darko on the dish a few days ago so I thought I would give it a shot. I've been thinking about it ever since! I didn't figure it all out during my first viewing but judging from this thread (yes, I read the whole thing) I got the majority of it. I haven't seen a movie that's haunted me like this in a long time. I plan on purchasing the DVD this week so that I can watch it with my wife and get her input as well. I also plan on introducing this film to my family over the holidays, I'm sure that it will generate some interesting discussion. Can't wait!

It's sad that this film did not receive more attention.
(Myself included)

Great thread BTW!
post #260 of 357
Couldn't agree with you more, Micheal. I rented it from Netflix, and refused to return it until I had a purchased copy in my hands. I was worried, that in an emergency, I may not have a copy on hand
post #261 of 357
“Can anyone verify that this is the musical piece in question? And more importantly, does anyone know where I can get it if is, in fact, the correct title?”

I can’t verify but if you like the background from DD you might want to look up the music CD ask for "Michael Andrews ‘Donnie Darko'” (music from the motion picture scored by this composer). It does have 2 versions of ‘Mad World” on it, but no other songs preformed by other bands in this movie will be included on this score only CD.

The track labeled, “Burn it to the ground” is on this CD which definitely plays during part/or all of the scene with Gretchen sleeping while Donnie and Frank converse as ‘Evil Dead’ is playing on the screen. (EDIT: Well I'm really not sure, Listening to it on the computer just now, this might be what plays while he DOES burn it too the ground after walking out of the theater. But I still recomend the CD if you like the movie) I don’t have time at the moment to compare it to my DVD for exactness to this scene.

I like 'Waltz in the 4th Dimension', the very ghostly synthesized background piece as they ride their bikes to the ‘Cellar Door’ great background for a Halloween party. “Middlesex Times” is the very funny theme behind the school flood sequence and ‘Slipping Away” the ominous piece when the Gym T and principle first see the paper headlines pr as Donnie is going after I like 'Gretchen Ross' and ‘Rosie Darko’s’ theme, which is very poignant in capturing her love and concern for her son.

They have never produced a ‘Sound Track’ CD, I understand budget would not allow. I guess M. Andrews cut a deal just for his scoring.

If they put out a ST CD I’d buy it.
post #262 of 357
Well Dwayne, I don't think we'll ever know what that piece of music is. I've tried looking all over online for any indication of it's identity, but to no avail. Shame, since I'd really like to own it on CD.
post #263 of 357
This just got released theatrically here in the UK. Got back a few hours ago and have now read the entire thread! Very interesting read aside from a few longish chunks about how Pi was more intellectually challenging? ( )

This film absolutely knocked me on my ass! Fabulous film-making. Easily the most thought-provoking film I've seen since Minority Report. Amazing soundtrack also. I guarantee you'll never see Tears for Fears music put better to images than in this film!

Also, how does one suck a fuck?
post #264 of 357
Yeah, the Pi stuff was quite productive, wasn't it?

It is a cool film.
post #265 of 357
I had rented this film a while ago and it had stuck with me ever since. With the recent price drop I decided to purchase it and I'm glad I did. Definitely one of the best films of 2001.
post #266 of 357
Amen to that, and definitely an addiction. I always make sure I have my copy with me if I'm going to be gone for an extended time
post #267 of 357
I noticed Best Buy has the DVD for $8.99. I guess it's time I bought it.
post #268 of 357
Yah, at that price it's a must buy. I bought mine used a couple months ago for 16, but I have no regrets.
post #269 of 357
Okay... I hate to be the one guilty of bringing this up again. However, having found DD to be a very surprising treat, this thread is the reason why I picked up a copy of Pi.

DD is an off-beat hollywood flick while Pi is a super low-budget arthouse flick. The basic premise of DD is patently ridiculous so after you make the initial leap suspending disbelief is relatively easy. The plot twists, inconsistancies, etc. are a blast to try to explain away. DD is a fun movie to try to unravel.

Pi, on the other hand, begins with a much more down to earth premise and takes you on a wild ride of insanity. Unfortunately, they made a film about a mathmatician without bothering to consult one. (or a Computer scientist for that matter) It makes some pretty lame hacker-movie mistakes (although nothing so grandiose as a flick like Hackers) and is full of a lot of really stupid little mistakes that tend to be quite jarring.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
A couple examples off the top of my head from the first viewing:
-Max's computer runs intensive stock market analyses which are supposed to eventually expose the nature of god in about a tenth of a second. Hot damn! Sign me up for one of those machines!

-After he fries his processor he says he lost all his data. The stock broker people tempt him with a top-secret superchip which he naturally snaps up. This chip is pretty amazing. It must operate on some wierd multi-voltage system totally unlike binary because it only has 4 pins on it. It plugs right into Max's computer board though and fires right up, ready to run Max's program on a floppy full of Koran text. Bam! So... The data he said he lost when he toasted his CPU was either stored somewhere else, totally unbeknowst to Max, in the room-sized computer he appears to have built himself, or the new CPU came with it pre-loaded. Let's just say the miracle 4-pin superprocessor that can adapt on the fly to run with hardware and software designed for a completely different processor is psychic too and call it a day.

-Max (a mathmetician) says to a Rabbi at one point "I'm sure you've written down every 216 digit number" and goes on to make a plot critical point based on that. *If* you could write down a trillian numbers a trillion times per second (well beyond a modern super-computer) it would only take you about 3 x 10^175 times the age of the universe to write out every 216 digit number. A guy whose life is Math probably wouldn't base an argument on such a statement.

-The kabalists believed that the name of god was 216 letters long, and thought that the 216 digit Max had discovered was the numeric representation of that name. Max's number was base 10 though, so it would have been limited to the first 10 letters of the hebrew alphabet and would not have matched the hebrew number system which represents numbers with letters. (It doesn't just number the letters from 1 to N. Some letters have values in the hundreds.) If it were to be capable of representing all hebrew letters it would have had to have been 432 digits long. (This assumes there are 11-100 Hebrew characters. You could actually represent a 216 digit hebrew number with fewer than 432 digits if you used a smarter encoding method, but somehow I think it would have been beyond the ancient Hebrews.) Perhaps a better question is whether a 216 digit Hebrew number would even come close to a 216 digit base 10 positional number. Hebrew numbers weren't positional. The largest number represented by a single Hebrew character was something like 400 (correct me if I'm wrong) so the largest number a 216 digit hebrew figure could represent would be 86400. This is academic though, since there would still be (1 * 10^216)-1 different ways to write the number assuming that hebrew numbers didn't have any order-specific syntax like midevil scholars imposed on the roman numeral system. (e.g. IV would have meant 6 to a roman, not 4.)

-The rest of the math is pretty pathetic. You would think that an equation for the universe would be a tiny bit more esoteric than pythagoras' golden spiral. (Although it does admittedly make for some neat visuals) This movie is a great example of what happens when an english major decides to write about something they know next to nothing about.


The form and visual style of Pi is utterly captivating though. The acting is top notch. Just don't pay too much attention to the plot or details and it's a wild ride. I enjoyed Pi immensely, but I think DD was a lot more fun to try to figure out after the fact. Someone said previously that Pi put form before substance. I couldn't have said it better myself. But what form!
post #270 of 357
Actually, DD is an "arthouse" movie as well. It was independently made and financed. It was only distributed (badly, I might add) by Fox.
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