Donnie Darko...a very strange movie - Page 6

Seth,

Excellent analysis. And thanks for posting the text of the book.

A very thought provoking film that I'm still processing after viewing it a couple of times over the weekend. One question:

If the parallel dimension (or whatever you want to call it) starts on Oct. 2 with the jet engine crashing, what is Donnie doing up on the ridge at the beginning of the film? Did Frank start talking to him prior to Oct. 2?

It's amazing that a film this good can sail under our collective radar screen until the DVD is released. I'm glad so many of us will catch up to this one in our HT's.

Highly recommended.

Rob

After reading (and re-reading and re-reading...) The Philosophy Of Time Travel I tried to fit the movie into the book to help me understand it better and came up with the following:

The movie opens in the Primary Universe. Something happens to create the Tangent Universe (what?). It’s not really so much an event as just a point in time where the PU ends and the TU begins (not like a Parallel Universe where the two exist at the same time). A jet engine (Artifact) falls on Donnie’s house in the TU. The source of the jet engine cannot be explained. A TU is unstable and can exist for only a matter of weeks before collapsing on itself which forms a black hole in the PU that can destroy all of existence. Donnie’s job as the Living Receiver is to return the Artifact to the PU with the help or coercion of Manipulated Living and Manipulated Dead people (everyone else in the movie following the creation of the TU).

Donnie’s primary motivation for returning the Artifact to the PU is to save Gretchen’s life (and, conceivably, the world).

In the end Donnie manages to send the jet engine back to the PU. He either knows that the black hole is going to form or he causes the black hole to form over his house and he knows that his family will be on a jet returning home at that time. So the jet engine returns to the PU where it falls on Donnie’s house and kills him.

One troubling thing in The Philosophy Of Time Travel is the statement: “Those surrounding the Living Receiver, known as the Manipulated, will fear him and try to destroy him.” I can understand why they would want to destroy him because they are, after all, products of the TU and if Donnie is successful, he will destroy the TU. But in other places we are led to believe that the Manipulated are there to “help”, not destroy, him. Of course, in helping him they are actually destroying him and themselves as well. So which is it? Then again, they are called “Manipulated”....so maybe their natural inclination is to destroy the Living Receiver but are being manipulated to help him.

Rob, I think Donnie was sleepwalking as a result of his psychological issues long before Frank appears.

EDIT: As mentioned earlier, the web site is a good source of information, like the following:

Undersigned Affiant, Who After Being Duly Sworn By Me, On Oath, Makes The Following Statement:

I have good reason to believe and do believe that

Darko, Donald J. /M 05-28-72

On or About The 12th Day of January 1986, In the incorporated limits of the county of Fairfax and the State of Virginia, did then and there commit the offense of:

Attempted Escape - Class A

My belief of the foregoing statement is based on personal knowledge. On 01-12-86 at about 3:43am I was circling the perimeter of the Clearview Juvenile Detention Center when I discovered a white male, dressed in prison clothing, asleep in the fetal position in a grass field approximately 30 yards from the nothern perimeter fence.

On arrival to the location I noticed that the subject was regaining consciousness. His clothing was torn in several places and I could see several lacerations and bleeding from his hands, arms and legs.

Clothing fragments were clearly visible in the barb wire at the top of the fencing, as it appeared to me that the suspect had climbed the fence without regard for personal injury.

As I took the subject into custody, he was cooperative and apologetic. "I'm sorry," he said. "I am so sorry, I don't understand why this happens to me. I am so sorry."

Subject claimed that he did not remember the escape attempt because of his problems with sleepwalking.

Garret,

It's not the jet engines that disrupt the equilibrium of the universe, it's the fact that Donnie does not die in the beginning. His death at the end restores the equilibrium (IMHO).

But then why does Frank wake him up to begin with?

That's the BIGGIE. Maybe everything happened for the sole benefit of Donnie - so he could find some meaning for his life and come to terms with his search for God.

Has anyone seen this poster? I'd love to buy it. I've only seen the black one with Frank's head.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Just to add to what Seth said.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Pretty cool although I still prefer the original.

I think the poster above would work much better without the faces, IMO.

Damn.

I just noticed Frank's shadow in the street!!!

Keep that and ditch the faces and the poster would be way cool.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Yes, Bryant.

We know how you feel about this film. What doesn't make any sense is your insistence on implying the rest of us are stupid because we enjoy it and enjoy discussing it. If you think we are trying to figure "what really happened" then you are the one who doesn't understand movies. Bulletin, they aren't real. This particular one has many ways it can be interpreted. More than most.

Yet people spend hours discussing them. The only person wasting his time is you.

John,

I didn't say that discussing Dali was a waste of time. I said trying to explain Dali was a waste in time. Somethings just aren't meant to be understood, while others are so poorly put together that they can't be understood. Doesn't mean that they can't be appreciated.

Heck, Darko had me on edge for every minute I watched it. No movie has ever had me frozen paralytically in anticapation like Donnie Darko did. I mean good grief the suspense was some of the best I've ever seen!!! But intellectually it was a let down, because of the many holes. This could have been told far better IMO.

I think that DD is something to look at instead of comprehend. Pi for example is the kind of film that you could get value from putting your head into it. DD is so messy, that I just think the director/writer did a poor job of pulling the logic together on film.

Classic case of The Emperor's New Clothes.

Bryant,

On the surface, Donnie Darko is easy to comprehend. At the end of my first viewing I totally understood what had happened in the movie. Yet you would describe it as "so poorly put together that [it] can't be understood"?



Feel free to list them all (followed by your top 3 movies).



I disagree and I seriously doubt that you could write a story as enthralling, suspenseful, spiritual, complex and unique as Donnie Darko.

First off, any film that deals with time travel is more than likely going to have some paradox, which is hard to get around while being more challenging narrative-wise. That said, I cared much more about DD's protaganist than I did for PI's. At least Donnie Darko was compelling to watch where PI, IMO, was almost like watching paint dry in comparison. PI is also not that hard a film to work out in your head. Actually, I would accuse PI being more guilty of putting style over substance. Requiem For A Dream on the other hand is a totally different story.

It took DA's second film to really make me take notice of him where Kelly impressed the first time around.

Are we talking about your version of what happened, or what the director was trying to convey? I ask because when I listened to bits and pieces of the commentary, I kept asking myself, how the hell was anyone supposed to catch on to that? And that? And that? A classic example is Frank beeping is car horn. I think I recall the director saying that this was actually a signal to Donnie, but he was talking about it like we were supposed to get it.



And on that note I'll say "bye" again.

Good

Great movie (although my head is spinning after reading this thread)!

Something I'm not grasping yet, though.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Someone who hasn't killed as many brain cells as I have please help clarify.

John,

Yes, the engine fell out of the sky and it's origin wouldn't be able to be explained. The difference is that because the engine now killed Donnie, it closed the alternate universe he opened when he didn't get killed the first time around, thus preventing a paradox.

Bruce

The horn honking at the end does take on new meaning - particularly upon subsequent viewings.



You didn't say "bye" the first time.

I finally got around to seeing Mulholland Drive and as much as I like David Lynch, I must say that I think Donnie Darko is the better movie.

Very good point. Donnie already had a history of sleepwalking, so perhaps in the tangent universe he wakes up or rather sleepwalks to survive.

It seems to me that he sat up and then Frank called him, but I can't remember now.

If this is the case then it seems to wrap it up IMO.

Another thing that makes Darko so good is that the SF narrative is draped in all sorts of social commentary layers as well. There is lots to walk away from this film with beyond just being entertained, yet it does that too.

Bryant, I shudder to think what your feelings on Ghost in the Shell or Jin-Roh might be. Imagine films who's main point is to ask you to explain their meanings and try to understand them.

Mark, yes Donnie did guid the engine back to the PRIMARY UNIVERSE from the ALTERNATE UNIVERSE.

That's 2 Donnies, 2 of everything.

It seems that the ALTERNATE universe is created BEFORE Donnie is not killed. Based on the Philosophy book by the old lady it is said that sometimes for UNKNOWN reasons an alternate universe will open up and someone will be chosen to guide the METAL artifact back to the PRIMARY universe.

So in the PRIMARY universe Donnie is killed by an engine that falls off of a plane IN THE FUTURE. She mentions in the book that other people have been killed by future items before, like the sword that was not yet made. So it means it will be an episode of "In Search Of..." for people in the PRIMARY universe.

The ALTERNATE universe is apparently closed by the returning of the artifact, thus avoiding a universe destroying black hole.

But it seems pretty certain that Donnie waking up and not being killed is NOT what creates this other universe. For some other reason the engine from the future plane in the PRIMARY universe slips into/creates the ALTERNATE universe and lands on Donnie's house. Thus Donnie's house is the center of the vortex of this universe cross-over and he is made the chosen one for returning the artifact/engine.

That probably just killed more brain cells itself.

That's an excellent post, Seth. I still haven't browsed through the Philosophy of Time extra, but I was under the assumption that Donnie not dying caused the alternate universe. Thanks for setting me straight. Now the question comes up...if Donnie had died the first time around...would Frank have chosen anyone, randomly, to guide the artifact back? I would assume it because by this account, because the artifact fell on Donnie's room, he was basically chosen to guide it back simply through being in the path of the artifact...i.e.-it chose him. So, if he dies...would that have caused the collapse of the universe? In other words, the paradox was avoided pretty much by chance?

Bruce

If he guides it's back, then why does it wind up killing him anyway? It doesn't seem like the artifact was returned to it's proper time.

Well I do think the 2 universes have to sort of match.

Of course when I first saw it without reading the extras I just thought it was sent back in time in the same universe and that he had to sacrifice himself to keep everyone else alive.


Yes, it appears that if he was killed that someone else would have been the chosen one. However Frank is not who did the choosing. Frank is killed in the alternate universe and becomes the Manipulated Dead as does the girlfriend. These people can time travel and their only goal is to get the chosen one to guide the artifact back.

So had Donnie been killed then it probably also would have meant that Frank would not have been killed. Some other person(s) might have become Manipulated Dead and sought to force the other chosen one to guide the artifact back.


What allows the movie to escape some problems is by leaving that "Why?" as unknown with regards to why this happens and why a certain person is made the chosen one. The story leaves those aspects as unresolvable.

Doesn't bother me anymore than not having a solid explanation as to why a super spiderbite would allow humans to stick to walls. Most fantasy/SF films require at least one unresolved alteration to set everything else in motion. To me the point is more to watch the dominoes fall than it is to understand why they were setup in the first place, if that makes some sense.

Studying the human condition is a lot about watching human reactions (or imagining them) in a variety of situations. Sometimes we get funny results when the situations are fake but mostly the artist will still be pointing out some real piece of humanity by how they have the characters react.

It doesn't bother me, either. It's just a film that as you open new doors, it takes you to larger and larger wharehouses that are full of possibilities...and more and more questions. So, you can quite literally spin yourself into a web that you won't be able to escape. I do PREFER some elements of the film to remain "unsolvable". I mean, it is still a shot in the dark as to whether the events that played out would hold true in reality (that IS why it was lumped into the Fantasy genre )

The other aspect that makes the film so strong is that all the possibilities shown, well, when you break them down...they hold water. It all works.

Bruce

Of course lost in all this speculation about "WTF happened?!?" is the fact that the film has some excellent acting, solid dialog, and just a general great tone. The vibe the film gives off manages to avoid being too hip or too dark. It walks that dark edge though, just enough to creep me out at least.

I was pretty worried for people through most of the film. I thought we were going in the "Donnie is flipping out" direction. He did a good job to lead the audience in that direction I think, yet kept Donnie as a likeable protaganist anyway.

What I find most interesting about this film is the things that aren't really being discussed here. Not "What happened" but "What could have happened." For instance, what if Donnie is just severely mentally ill? What if it is just a dream he has the instant before he dies?

On a greater level, think of it in the context of It's a Wonderful Life. Instead of wanting to die and being shown the consequences of it, Donnie doesn't die and is shown the consequences. How much good would have to result for you to willingly and even eagerly sacrifice yourself?

These are the things that make the film powerful to me, not the Sci-Fi stuff.