Donnie Darko...a very strange movie - Page 5

Unfortunately, for unspecified reasons, Ron has decided not to review any more Fox DVDs. I am guessing that even though this DVD is only distributed by Fox, this rule still applies.

I'm fairly certain the "Classical" piece Jason is asking about is not Tears for Fears.

It is "Ave Maria" and I forget the composer, though I imagine it is an Italian. It is a very well known piece. The guys credited with it at the end of the film just don't sound right. There are also dozens of "Ave Marias." You will notice, the music fades in and out while the guys are watching the football game, but starts coming back when Donnie starts seeing the "worms." I'll try to find the composer and get back with it.

The composer of the particular "Ave Maria" I was thinking it was, is Franz Schubert. I know, not an Italian. The problem is, you barely hear the piece and after listening to it again, I'm not very certain this is the right "Ave Maria." Well, I tried.

I just finally saw this film and it was amazing. I wasn't 100% sure at the end as to what had just happened, but luckily the DVD has the "Philosophy of Time Travel" book on it so I was able to fill in the details.

What a wonderful script, not just in story but characters and dialog. Terrific dialog in fact. I never found characters jumping out of place just to push the story along, and in the meantime all these wild loose ends are actually tying tightly together. Plus it's very well directed and shot, beautiful to look at in a style that reminded me a lot of the dream Virgin Suicides look/feel.

An intriguing film that kept pulling me in the whole time with it's excellent parallel possibilities between a pyscho flipping out or something slightly more real happening.

This film is what Final Destination could have been with a brain. One of the best films I've seen this year.

BTW, I'm back on page 2 reading and it's likely that someone else has already said what happens in the movie. The book spells it out rather explicitly (Time Travel book on DVD).

Before reading that I thought that Donnie had made a choice to go back in time to let the engine hit him and therefore stop the other event resulting in people's death. Thus he "wakes up" after returning in time and is laughing about his choices. Somehow many other people in his life felt the "shadow" of this alternate future that will no longer be, thus the ending scenes. I needed no other guide for that much.

And the old lady is always checking her mailbox BECAUSE she was waiting on Donnie's letter. She hoped it would get to her in time to fix things.


Anyway, the book thing then tells us that an alternate universe has been opened up and that after a few weeks the existence of this other universe will cause enough instability to create a black hole in the main universe and destroy it.

People killed in this alternate universe are the "manipulated dead" and can control much of what is going on. This is how Frank, a normal teen at a Halloween party, is able to manipulate Donnie's world and guide him. The book says that the manipulated dead are TRYING to get Donnie (chosen one basically) to guide this metal object that has broken across from the other universe back to it's home universe.

Donnie has the power to manipulate time/space and at the end as the black hole is beginning he opens up a wormhole and guides the plane engine back to the universe it belongs in, killing himself by this choice but stopping the destruction of the universe.

The "manipulated living" are people near the vortex of the cross-over who also want Donnie to take the "vessel" back (the engine) though without abilities of the manipulated dead. The book verifies that once it is transported safely back by Donnie that some of them will still be haunted by their actions or what they saw in the alternate universe.


Actually a pretty straight forward time-travel thriller but with a great edge of making you think Donnie is simply crazy. Like I said above, a really good script. There is no slop there, it is all tightly woven together and thought out.


BTW, I haven't listened to the commentaries, so while the book is very helpful I didn't need the commentaries to explain it as if it's some cryptic film.

oh yeah, the Last Temptation/Evil Dead double billing.

Evil Dead - Frank is dead and trying to control Donnie, as is his girlfriend though she seems to be filling his last days with joy (IMO).

LToC - what was said earlier. He will end up being a martyr for his universe but before that happens he follows the path where he doesn't die for the universe and sees what happens.

Symbolism is well-used in the film I think.

Yeah, while Drew and Noah aren't powerful like Frank since they weren't killed, they are definately pushing him down Frank's path too. I agree with the idea that they are saying "Donnie Darko" because they are understanding that he is the one, the "escort" for the vessel mentioned in the book.

Thus Drew's "odd" seating of him next to Gretchen, "allowing" her to pick that seat. And Noah introducing the book to him after Frank tells him that "they" will help you.

Even the doctor has some odd stuff to say when Donnie sees Frank under hypnosis at the end. Everybody else is pushing for Donnie to use his mental powers to return the airline engine "vessel" back to it's proper universe.

I guess basically that means that engine A went to universe B and missed him, and engine B is sent back to universe A (by Donnie's powers over time, he must escort it back according to the book) where it kills him.


Also how about the fact that water and fire are the 2 aspects of the time travel/alternate universe thing (again, in book) and Donnie FLOODS the school and BURNS Patrick's house down.

Yeah, obviously the chapter title confirms that Frank used Gretchen as insurance. He knew that Donnie might still not escort the engine back so he used "saving her life" to make sure that Donnie did what he was supposed to do.

Seth,

I think that may be the first time I have actually seen someone have an online conversation with himself.


Wild Film!! Don't you think?

BTW,


I just wanted to add. I really like the anti It's a Wonderful Life aspect of this film.

My thoughts were more in line with the comments made by Michael Reuben:

There is no doubt that Donnie Darko is an intriguing story with multilayered interpretations to bewilder the audience but unfortunately the movie did not totally deliver onto the screen which was more frustrating than trying to understand the motives of the movie. The lead character of Donnie Darko was played marvellously by Jake Gyllenhaal while the direction was handled by first-time Director of Richard Kelly who shows us some nifty techniques to stamp his talents and competence. However, it seems that the element of storytelling was lacking as they both failed to convey some of the messages that were crucial to the plot or transitions. Nevertheless it was a fun but yet fascinating ride and a great first-effort attempt from a film-maker who will be commanding more attention in future.

The main strengths of the movie IMO was the great soundtrack, the dark humour and snappy dialogue. I Just loved how the 1980s music blended with certain scenes (and was actually mentioned on the DVD). Also got a kick out of the Back to the Future and DeLorean references.

actually, the title of that song is "head over heels"...it's on their album 'songs from the big chair'.

yes, i'm just being anal...

Actually John I was reading through the thread and adding stuff as I came across different posts...5 pages and I hadn't read any of them till after my first post. I'm glad I hadn't though or I might have been slightly spoiled. As it was the whole thing was wide open.

So just take my series of posts and pretend like I put 1 per page as if I'd been involved in the thread the whole time.

my bad todd -

by the way you wrote it i thought you were trying to quote the song title.

sorry...my mistake!

Seth,

I think you definitey nailed the gist of DD, a lot sooner than I did at least. I would completely agree with your explanation of the meaning behind all the events that transpire during the film.

I have to respectfully disagree with DD being I don't personally find it to be straight-forward, instead I was rather astounded by its refusal to stick to one genre convention. I think that the plot, however straightforward once analyzed, is executed with a deftness, subtlety and lyrical timelessness and clarity that can be absorbed on many levels. And while it is intended to be a time travel thriller, DD works on levels much deeper than that, and is subject to interpretations that go so far as to contradict the original intentions of the director.

Cheers,

Joseph

I mean straight forward in terms of actual story underneath it all. There is plenty of subtext due to the film's parallel nature with Donnie's character, that he might be crazy, his "anti-social" attitudes, views on social structure, family behavior, etc.

But all of this is hung off of a story that at it's core is simply a time travel/alternate reality story, rather than "hard to tell, kinda weird" thing like perhaps Muholland Drive.

Though a MD book on the DVD might help clear that up just as much as Darko.

But in terms of presentation what I like most about DD is that it provides multiple layers as you watch it which keep you honestly unsure without having to play it cheap with forced plot changes. The basic story underneath is completely hidden from us, though it could have just as well been told as The Time Machine or something with a Sci-Fi approach instead where things were more clearly of an SF nature (thus cluing the audience in sooner).

That it didn't do that and that it went this other direction so well are what make it a great film to me. That Ebert lamented the confused ending as the main flaw kills me because in most ways it is more wrapped up than 2001, a film he loves.

No one gets 2001 the first time through...no one. Yet it is not diminished for this. In fact these extra layers are often cited as part of it's strength. It could be that Donnie Darko is on it's way down that path as well, perhaps not to 2001 status of course, but appreciated more with time.

I think it should at least stand as tall as something like Fight Club or Being John Malkovich.

Seth,

I agree with all of that. The only time I have come away from watching 2001 with the entire theme clear in my mind was when I watched it right after reading the book. Still, critics love it and condemn other films for the exact same thing.

In one of the deleted scenes, the director comments that this is definitely a Sci-Fi film, which it is, but it has so much philosophy and misdirection built in that it really isn't until the end that you start realizing it. You are right that it doesn't use cheap plot changes. Instead it gives you slivers that are just small enough to make you disoriented, much like The Sixth Sense, though the payoff in Donnie Darko is infinitely more complex.

Seth and John: I agree 100% with your observations. There is also a distinction to be made between a film that 1) defies genre conventions because it doesn't know what it wants to be (pretty common), and then a film that but keeps a consistant tone and miraculously ties up the plot threads.

I too felt satisfied by the ending. Is it the martyr factor, the art snob in me that demands a Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) I mean, I can't help but think of Mulholland Drive, another film that deals with Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Such films are accused of being too fragmented, too piecemeal to allow the viewer a straightforward, linear journey, point A to point B. But Kelly and Lynch do us the favor of lingering on shots, allowing us to soak in the imagery and get close to the characters in the midst of the cacophonic trauma they experience as a result of their respective dualities. What we are left with, are films that do satisfy, albeit in ways we don't comphrehend right off the bat. Emotional resolution without pre-credit plot summation (as in: Frank later did such-and-such, for example).

Joseph

I agree 100%. So often we see confused films even when they didn't try to walk into the mixed genre area that it is amazing to see a true mixed genre film play so wonderfully consistent in tone.

In that regard the film succeeds as well as any mixed genre film I can think of. Far more than just being a "good first attempt".

I'm still processing this film after having just watched it, but I can safely say that it is one of the most thought provoking, brave, original films that I have seen in quite some time. I liked it a lot, and I think that in a very short while, I will love it. Rented it yesterday, am buying it today.

Thanks Seth for the recommendation.

John,

It's been awhile since I've been in this thread. I did check the score and that song (that's now in your sig) is not there. I find it frustrating since the piece is just an incredible listen. It fit's that scene perfectly.

Excellent analysis, Seth. The Philosophy Of Time Travel does explain much of what's going on.

That's surprising. It is also at the beginning of the closing credits.

Also, if anyone can't read that book on the DVD (pretty much need the zoom function to do so) I have typed it out for Tino (no zoom) and can either post it or email it.

I just wasn't going to waste b/width if everyone else here has/can read it.

It leaves very little about the film in the grey.

Seth,

couldn't you post a link to it as a text file so anyone who wanted it could download it?


BTW, was the picture in your new signature taken early the morning after the one from your last signature?

I just watched this again last night and something struck me. in the "original" time line (before the jet engine) the last time Donnie sees his sister Elizabeth, they are swearing at each other, and the last time he sees his mother he calls her a bitch. I always wondered why these scenes were there, but didn't give it much thought. Now I realize why they are included. In the "alternate" time line, as Donnie is realizing the need to sacrifice himself, the last time he sees Elizabeth, he kisses her on the forehead and the last time he sees his mother they have a nice conversation. "How's it feel to have a wacko for a son?" "It feels wonderful."

Good point John, I hadn't thought about that but I've only watched it once. Lots of good stuff to see on a 2nd viewing. The best "2nd viewing" film since Fight Club, although Mulholland Drive is close.

And actually I had a buzz at the USGP (the last sig photo). This is several months later...the messy look (or perhaps the "next morning" look apparently. )



You know, what the hell, here is the text of that book. I won't use spoilers though because some Web TV people have trouble seeing under spoilers (I think Tino is one of those people).

So, DON'T READ THIS STUFF IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM. You've been warned.



Foreword

I would like to thank the sisters of the Saint John Chapter in Alexandria, Virginia for their support in my decision.

By the Grace of God they are:

Sister Eleance Lewis
Sister Francesca Godard
Sister Helen Davis
Sister Catherine Arnold
Sister Mary Lee Pond
Sister Virginia Wessex

This (sic) intent of this short book is for it to be used as a simple and direct guide in a time of great danger.

I pray that this is merely a work of fiction.

If it is not, then I pray for you, the reader of this book.

If I am still alive when the events foretold in these pages occur, then I hope that you will find me before it’s too late.

Roberta Ann Sparrow
October, 1944

*************

Chapter 1
The Tangient Universe

The Primary Universe is fraught with great peril. War, plague, famine, and natural disaster are common. Death comes to us all.

The Fourth Dimension of Time is a stable construct, though it is not impenetrable.

Incidents when the fabric of the fourth dimension become corrupted are incredibly rare.

If a Tangent Universe occurs, it will be highly unstable, sustaining itself for no longer than several weeks.

Eventually it will collapse upon itself, forming a black hole within the Primary Universe capable of destroying all existence.

*************

Chapter 2
Water and Metal

Water and Metal are the key elements of Time Travel.

Water is the barrier element for the construction of Time Portals used as gateways between Universes at the Tangent Vortex.

Metal is the transitional element for the construction of Artifact Vessels.

*************

Chapter 4 (edit, there is no Ch 3 listed)
The Artifact and the Living

When a Tangent Universe occurs, those living nearest to the Vortex will find themselves at the epicenter of a dangerous new world.

Artifacts provide the first sign that a Tangent Universe has occurred.

If an Artifact occurs, the Living will retrieve it with great interest and curiosity. Artifacts are formed from metal, such as an Arrowhead from an ancient Mayan civilization, or a Metal Sword from Medievel (sic) Europe.

Artifacts returned to the Primary Universe are often linked to religious iconography, as their appearance on Earth seems to defy logical explanation.

Divine Intervention is deemed the only logical conclusion for the appearance of the Artifact.

*************

Chapter 6 (again, no 5)
The Living Receiver

The Living Receiver is chosen to guide the Artifact into position for its journey back to the Primary Universe.

No one knows how or why a Receiver will be chosen.

The Living Receiver is often blessed with a (sic) Fourth Dimensional Powers. These include increased strength, telekinesis, mind control, and the ability to conjure fire and water.

The Living Receiver is often tormented by terrifying dreams, visions, and auditory hallucinations during his time within the Tangent Universe.

Those surrounding the Living Receiver, known as the Manipulated, will fear him and try to destroy him.

*************

Chapter 7
The Manipulated Living

The Manipulated Living are often the close friends and neighbors of the Living Receiver.

They are prone to irrational, bizarre, and often violent behavior. This is the unfortunate result of their task, which is to assist the Living Receiver in returning the Artifact to the Primary Universe.

The Manipulated Living will do anything to save themselves from Oblivion.

*************

Chapter 10
The Manipulated Dead

The Manipulated Dead are more powerful than the Living Receiver. If a person dies within the Tangent Dimension they are able to contact the Living Receiver through the Fourth Dimensional Construct.

The Fourth Dimensional Construct is made of Water.

The Manipulated Dead will manipulate the Living Receiver using the Fourth Dimensional Construct (see Appendix A and B).

The Manipulated Dead will often set an Ensurance (sic) Trap for the Living Receiver to ensure that the Artifact is returned safely to the Primary Universe.

If the Ensurance Trap is successful, the Living Receiver is left with no choice but to use his Fourth Dimensional Power to send the Artifact back in time into the Primary Universe before the black hole collapses upon itself.

*************

Appendix A

(map of human body with unreadable descriptions pointing to various parts of the body.

*************

Appendix B is the same type of stuff, apparently showing how time vectors come out of the body.

*************

Chapter 12
Dreams

When the Manipulated awaken from their journey into the Tangent Universe, they are often haunted by the experience in their dreams.

Many of them will not remember.

Those who do remember the Journey are often overcome with profound remorse for the regretful actions buried within their Dreams, the only physical evidence buried within the Artifact itself, all that remains from the lost world.

Ancient myth tells us of the Mayan Warrior killed by an Arrowhead that had fallen from a cliff, where there was no Army, no enemy to be found.

We are told of the Medievel Knight mysteriously impaled by the sword he had not yet built.

We are told that these things occur for a reason.

*************

Notes

Living Receiver
Donnie Darko (died October 2, 1988)

Manipulated Dead
Frank Anderson
Gretchen Ross (not her real name)

Manipulated Living
Edward Darko
Rose Darko
Elizabeth Darko
Samantha Darko
Katherine Farmer
Elizabeth Farmer
Jim Cunningham (died October ??, 1988) - I couldn’t read the date
Kenneth Monnitoff
Karen Pomeroy
Carey Cole
Cherita Chen
Seth Devlin
Ricky Ranforth
Joanie James
Susan Bates
Susan Bailey
Sean Smith
Leroy Jones
Michael Carter - another bit that’s hard to read
Linda Connie
Roberta Sparrow

Thats good stuff Seth. Thanks for typing that out.

As for the ending...

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Damn, The paradox's in this film are like 12 Monkey's squared.