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The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.) - Page 92

post #2731 of 2829
1/6/08 at 7:26am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesTLewis
Ouch.

Okay, sorry, that was harsh. Not everyone is going to see things the same way, but if the Studios get an inconsistent or poorly thought out response from us here at HTF, can we blame them much if they ignore us?

Your sig is fine, just borrowed it for my own use.
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post #2732 of 2829
1/6/08 at 7:45am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike kaminski
Is it possible that the DC mix on the new set used elements from this Enhanced Workprint master? It would explain why it uses "cleaned up" sounding elements taken from the WP, but re-mixed in a different way (as the Rachel scene music is, and possibly may also be the case for Deckard's intro). Perhaps these were discovered and mistakenly thought to be the original sound masters for the DC--they would have 1992 dates after all.

Snip...

So, I might have solved this. As Scott writes, these "Archival versions" were taken from the original six-track masters--but there were no six-track masters made for the DC, the sound mix was only done for a 35mm release. So when they were making the new DVD and found 70mm six-track masters from 1992 they thought it was proper DC elements--but they are from a never-released Enhanced Workprint that Warners created that year.

Not sure I'm following ... if that were the case, wouldn't, for example, Desolation Path then be on the Final Cut? After all, there are no six-track masters for that other than what they pull from other material.
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post #2733 of 2829
1/6/08 at 10:59am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_d
Not sure I'm following ... if that were the case, wouldn't, for example, Desolation Path then be on the Final Cut? After all, there are no six-track masters for that other than what they pull from other material.

Has nothing to do with the Final Cut. Really, its the best answer there is right now. It is said that they had to create the mix out of a variant of sources due to damage, gaps, etc., so perhaps thats why WP-sourced audio is only in certain places. You could never simply sync audio from the Enhanced Workprint anyway, the editing is different so things would drift out of sync, so it could only be used in parts. To me its the only rational explanation though--they find these cans in the Warners archive with an august 1992 creation date and when they play them back its the film without the voice-over so they assume its some kind of 70mm DC element, when its really from the Enhanced Workprint that was thrown away.
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post #2734 of 2829
1/6/08 at 11:59am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike kaminski
Has nothing to do with the Final Cut. Really, its the best answer there is right now. It is said that they had to create the mix out of a variant of sources due to damage, gaps, etc., so perhaps thats why WP-sourced audio is only in certain places. You could never simply sync audio from the Enhanced Workprint anyway, the editing is different so things would drift out of sync, so it could only be used in parts. To me its the only rational explanation though--they find these cans in the Warners archive with an august 1992 creation date and when they play them back its the film without the voice-over so they assume its some kind of 70mm DC element, when its really from the Enhanced Workprint that was thrown away.

I think the problem in your logic may be that you're struggling to find a reasonable explanation beyond that they made some sort of mistake.

Needing audio from different sources to pull together a six track recording is all well and good ... but is still does not explain the problem. The Director's Cut scene where the Desolation Path music is used (5.1 version) is the same scene as in the Final Cut. Yet, the Final Cut has the correct 5.1 music. If they have the audio, they have the audio and they should have used it for the Director's Cut. They messed up and I don't even want to attempt to guess at how they messed up. Nor do I expect an explanation.
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post #2735 of 2829
1/6/08 at 12:32pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_d
I think the problem in your logic may be that you're struggling to find a reasonable explanation beyond that they made some sort of mistake.
And your problem is you are jumping to conclusions. Its one of the things that has always annoyed me about this forum, somebody spots one or two teeny weenie minor differences and then suddenly the sky is falling.

And besides, Warner Quality Control is always speedy about their responses to these things and their lack of incite one the matter indicates there is no matter.
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post #2736 of 2829
1/6/08 at 12:58pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_d
Needing audio from different sources to pull together a six track recording is all well and good ... but is still does not explain the problem. The Director's Cut scene where the Desolation Path music is used (5.1 version) is the same scene as in the Final Cut. Yet, the Final Cut has the correct 5.1 music. If they have the audio, they have the audio and they should have used it for the Director's Cut.

Thats exactly why I think I have the only explanation right now. If they have the audio then they have the audio, as you said--so it can't be because of lack of sources. I believe they mistook the 1992 Enhanced Workprint audio for the 1992 Directors Cut audio, I'm saying they put it in there by accident because they thought it was the real DC soundtrack when really it wasn't. Otherwise theres no way that Workprint-exclusive elements like the music could have ended up in the film.
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post #2737 of 2829
1/8/08 at 6:01am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

finally finished disc 2 dangerous days. i wonder if it'd looked awesome on HD! =P. i know they didn't have enough time and wanted to rush it before the end of the year AND we're in a SD DVD->HD media transition but having an "ultimate" collection that i paid good $ for in 5 HD discs only to have 2 of them being SD is kinda' strange . perhaps there is an "extreme" edition in the future where disc2&4 will be rediscombobulated into hd?
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post #2738 of 2829
1/8/08 at 7:15pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Blade Runner, four disc set: stellar content, lousy packaging...which is probably why I'm about to call for my second replacement due to scratched dvds, which really seem to be on the rise these days. I've begun to feel as if the only practical course of action is to accept damaged media...because that next replacement will be in even worse shape than my original.

Anyone else here dispirited to the point where "the play's the thing"; if a dvd plays through without skipping, freezing or manifesting any other kind of image break-up, you decide this one's a keeper? I'm pretty much there now, because we've reached the age where "the aesthetics of new"--whereby something is devoid of apparent defect--are, it would seem, no longer attainable.



--Jack
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post #2739 of 2829
1/8/08 at 7:41pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

I never even check the bottom of my DVDs for scratches.

I've had pristine-looking DVD's turn out to be defective and I've had discs with scratches play fine.

Playing the actual DVD and making sure there are no defects is really the only way to be sure.
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post #2740 of 2829
1/8/08 at 9:56pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Does anybody have any clue what the meaning is behind the dead woman in the bathtub in BLADE RUNNER? I only noticed her recently on the HD-DVD (she's submerged in the tub behind Deckard during the climax in the scene where Batty puts his head through the wall and then fights Deckard in the same room), and low and behold there is even an unused take featured in the supplements where you can really see her in detail as Deckard walks into the room and sits on the rim of the tub. There is no mention of her in the commentaries, she's just visible in the background of the scene in the final film, and very clearly seen in that unused take in the supplements, so I'm left baffled. Is this a remnant of the otherwise unfilmed "sixth replicant" subplot, or just a bit of strange background detail that was added to the shot to catch audiences off-guard and leave them uneasy?

Vincent
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post #2741 of 2829
1/9/08 at 9:02am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

My Briefcases are sitting in my local Post Office.... Just have to pay the £30 import taxes to release them and I can finally see this set for myself.......
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post #2742 of 2829
1/9/08 at 11:21am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill GrandPre
I never even check the bottom of my DVDs for scratches.

I've had pristine-looking DVD's turn out to be defective and I've had discs with scratches play fine.

Playing the actual DVD and making sure there are no defects is really the only way to be sure.



It's because I've seen the two--scratches and playback glitches--correlate so often, that I always check. And then there are those accursed expectations that new media look, well, new. But I'm driving myself crazy in the pursuit of the latter, so last night I viewed all the content on my scratched up Disc 3 and watched all the sections that branch off the main feature for the different versions...and it all seemed to play fine. So I hereby embark on getting real and relaxing my standards a bit; it's a keeper.



--Jack
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post #2743 of 2829
1/9/08 at 11:42am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Does anyone else feel that The Final Cut is a little bit softer looking in the fine detail department in some shots, especially character closeups?

I thought I noticed this in transitioning from the original theatrical cut to the FC last night; I'd made no adjustment to my equipment, but was struck by the shift.

The FC offers a more dynamic image with striking contrast, along with those much better composited effects shots...but left me with a feeling that the merest hint of noise reduction had been applied. On the other hand, it might just be perceptual, given the change in color timing and contrast...



--Jack
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post #2744 of 2829
1/9/08 at 1:51pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_P
Does anybody have any clue what the meaning is behind the dead woman in the bathtub in BLADE RUNNER? I only noticed her recently on the HD-DVD (she's submerged in the tub behind Deckard during the climax in the scene where Batty puts his head through the wall and then fights Deckard in the same room), and low and behold there is even an unused take featured in the supplements where you can really see her in detail as Deckard walks into the room and sits on the rim of the tub. There is no mention of her in the commentaries, she's just visible in the background of the scene in the final film, and very clearly seen in that unused take in the supplements, so I'm left baffled. Is this a remnant of the otherwise unfilmed "sixth replicant" subplot, or just a bit of strange background detail that was added to the shot to catch audiences off-guard and leave them uneasy?

Vincent

"...or just a bit of strange background detail that was added to the shot to catch audiences off-guard and leave them uneasy?"

That is my guess as they never filmed the sixth replicant AND Sebastien clearly had, at some point, placed his "toys" all over the building as decor, like the one sitting at the bar and the mannequins in the lobby on the first floor.
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post #2745 of 2829
1/9/08 at 1:55pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Johnson
Does anyone else feel that The Final Cut is a little bit softer looking in the fine detail department in some shots, especially character closeups?

I thought I noticed this in transitioning from the original theatrical cut to the FC last night; I'd made no adjustment to my equipment, but was struck by the shift.

The FC offers a more dynamic image with striking contrast, along with those much better composited effects shots...but left me with a feeling that the merest hint of noise reduction had been applied. On the other hand, it might just be perceptual, given the change in color timing and contrast...



--Jack

dvd or BD / HD-DVD?
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post #2746 of 2829
1/9/08 at 2:05pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Just watched both 1982 Cuts.

I cannot see much difference between except more gore perhaps.
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post #2747 of 2829
1/9/08 at 2:42pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)



They came in the actual shipping boxes with the display instructions printed on the base













All the trinkets were intact, the Blu Ray discs were loose but not scratched.. Relief!

Just a shame my Christmas present was so late, thanks to UK customs..

They'd held onto them since they were shipped on the 19th December...

Well, just got to watch them now!
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post #2748 of 2829
1/9/08 at 3:15pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
I cannot see much difference between except more gore perhaps.

As far as I know that's the only difference between the 1982 US cut and the 1982 international cut.
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post #2749 of 2829
1/9/08 at 3:44pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris PC
dvd or BD / HD-DVD?





I was looking at the standard dvd set; the softness in the FC I noticed--over the other versions on disc 3--is evidenced, just barely, in some of the comparison caps between the various versions and editions floating around (dvd beaver, etc); the one of Pris's face, in particular.

It seems like there's been a substantial reduction in the amount of visible grain in the FC, and I wondered if that might enter into this; in order to reduce it by employing subtle filtering, they'd also have to sacrifice some detail. In the end, if the Final Cut is softer in certain shots, it's not by much.


--Jack
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post #2750 of 2829
1/9/08 at 4:02pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesTLewis


They came in the actual shipping boxes with the display instructions printed on the base













All the trinkets were intact, the Blu Ray discs were loose but not scratched.. Relief!

Just a shame my Christmas present was so late, thanks to UK customs..

They'd held onto them since they were shipped on the 19th December...

Well, just got to watch them now!


Wow, that's a costly double purchase you got there

edit - sd dvd not hd-dvd
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post #2751 of 2829
1/9/08 at 4:18pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Just watched the first 30 mins on SD (as the BD is a future investment till I get a Blu ray Player)

and

Omigod...

I thought I already had a Blu Ray player..

It looks and sounds astonishing!

Charles, this was definitely worth the wait. Thank you so, so much!

I can't imagine what the High def version will be like..
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post #2752 of 2829
1/9/08 at 6:50pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

James, did you import from Canada?
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post #2753 of 2829
1/9/08 at 8:30pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Just for clarification, in citing a few of the caps that have been circulating as an example of what I think is a bit more softness on the FC version of Blade Runner, I didn't mean to suggest that's where I first noticed it (since caps can be unreliable). I first detected this in transitioning from the theatrical cut on disc 3--SD version--to the Final Cut on disc one...whereupon the odd shot or two began to look a tad more indistinct.
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post #2754 of 2829
1/10/08 at 4:56am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
James, did you import from Canada?


I used a UK company called Play.com, Most of their Region 1 stock comes from Canada. Why do you ask?
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post #2755 of 2829
1/10/08 at 11:18am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

My (hopefully) better late than never HTF review is finally up here. Before the holidays, I accidentally lost all of my notes on the supplements and it took me a while to reproduce them.

Regards,
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post #2756 of 2829
1/14/08 at 7:43pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

So having had a chance to look over the various transfers of each cut of Blade Runner, how does everyone feel about the revised color timing of The Final Cut?

I like it, but I'm also glad I went with the four disc edition to get the archival versions (SD dvd). I haven't listened to the commentary, and I don't have the fifth disc to hear if the rationale for the new look was given, but it did seem to enhance the "noirish" aspect of the film...and curtail what almost began to look like a kind of flashiness or "mall culture" gaudiness on view in some scenes in the city (not that I know what the heck that means, exactly). Not that it didn't work exactly as intended, but I wonder if the earlier versions don't seem a little more of their time...whereas The Final Cut--with its darker look--feels more contemporary. Just taking a flying stab in the dark to try and articulate a vague impression I had of the new look.

I commented before about a perceived lack of sharpness in the FC; not sure what I was on, but it was probably sleep deprivation...which is everyone's drug of choice these days, isn't it? But I don't see it now, after comparing it on a variety of monitors. Looks great.



--Jack
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post #2757 of 2829
1/15/08 at 12:44pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

FYI:
I see in the sports news that the "Blade Runner" will probably not be able to run in the China Olympics! For further details see:

SI.com - Olympics - IAAF delays decision on Olympic eligibility of amputee - Friday January 11, 2008 7:17AM
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post #2758 of 2829
1/15/08 at 4:37pm

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesTLewis
I used a UK company called Play.com, Most of their Region 1 stock comes from Canada. Why do you ask?
The numbers on the bottoms of your briefcases were a dead giveaway.
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post #2759 of 2829
1/19/08 at 4:13am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
The numbers on the bottoms of your briefcases were a dead giveaway.


um... seeing as I may have missed this in all these posts...

How do they denote canadian releases?
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post #2760 of 2829
1/19/08 at 5:25am

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesTLewis
um... seeing as I may have missed this in all these posts...

How do they denote canadian releases?
For SD, in the US the run is 103,000, whereas the Canadian release is only 10,000. Not sure what the numbers are for BD, but you get the idea.
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