The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.) - Page 81

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Yep.

If you don't like a part of a movie, you need to live with it or just stop watching the movie.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

I think the point being made is basically, "go edit your own movie", and not "edit someone else's movie". Coppola started AZ precisely because he wanted to make movies that he wanted to make, the way he wanted to make them, without someone else interfering with him or second-guessing him. Likewise Lucas doing his own thing with Lucasfilm, once he was in a position to finance them.

Of course tomorrow's filmmakers are going to start in their basement. But they should be shooting and editing their own footage, not re-editing an existing movie to suit their own tastes.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

I'm very much in favour of the author's intent. If Ridley thinks the FINAL CUT is the best version of the picture, then who am I to argue with that? I don't have to watch it. I'm glad they kept it simple. I don't want to mess around with options, I just want to watch the film as the author intended us to.

I'm only in favour of fan cuts when it serves a purpose i.e. The RIC of Superman 2 was to flag Warner Bros. that there is a market here. It worked.
Now there's Selutron who is saying that the Donner Cut is an embarrassment to Dick Donner, so he's lobbying Warners to pump some money in and do it properly -- I doubt they'll be doing it again.

If Francis thinks Apoc Now in 2.20:1 is fine, then I'm happy with that decision. I don't necessarily agree with him, but the image wasn't severely compromised; I can live with it.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

People like to get interactive with their CDs too. They change the order of tracks, they skip and delete parts they don't like. They put John Williams and Led Zeppelin on the same playlist. Nobody finds that disrespectful! It's not always the case but music can be a journey too. The composer tells his story via music and we, the listeners, change the author's concept and turn his vision into a hodgepodge. Is film a higher form of art where the plebs should keep their hands of?


Alex

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

And to think I really thought I would be endangering your job with my "popular" ideas. I already designed my new business card! Damn!

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

A film is to be viewed in a linear fashion otherwise it doesn't make sense. Music doesn't lend itself to be heard in such a way, well, not always.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Then why are there chapters on DVDs then ? You can watch your favorite part over and over, DVD and LDs broke that linear thing out ages ago. OK first you watch the movie complete (or listen to the whole record) they you replay your favorite part.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Personally speaking, unless I'm working on my own project, I watch a film from beginning to end, and never watch my favourite scenes out of my context.
If it was my own film, then I'd remove chapter breaks.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Stumbled across a copy of the 5 disc Blu-ray set last night at a local retailer. It was so awesome watching Blade Runner in HD. I wasn't certain which version I would watch first, but decided to go with the 1982 theatrical cut.

(Once again, much like Star Trek Season 1, I was struck by the notion that I could not have conceived of watching this title in this type of presentation so many years later - I have many fond memories of multiple theatrical viewings of Blade Runner back in 1982.)

Great work on the set, Charlie. Thanks for delivering such a great release to fans of this film.

- Walter.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Point taken and I'm sure no one disagrees with the best thing for a young filmmaker to do. But please remember this started with someone talking about 'building' the film as they like it.


Heck, one could easily suggest that films like Mulholland Dr. and L'Appartment would make a lot MORE sense if they were viewed non-linearly (if that's a word).

Music is sold by song (song singles or mp3 download) even when there is a full album sold as well. Movies are not sold by scene (AFAIK) only by film. End users then copy their favorite scenes and keep it on their own media or upload it to Youtube and the like. We can huff and puff about how movies should be viewed but it seems to me ... that cat's out of the bag.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

On this controversy:

In the DVD of The Straight Story, David Lynch wrote a personal message in the insert attacking this very thing (chapter stops), stating that "[Film] is a continuum, and should be viewed as such."

Of course, there's still the "shuttle" function on one's DVD player. Exceptions to this exist, obviously, like using a specific scene for a film-studies class or whatever, but I tend to hew to Lynch's viewpoint as a general rule.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Interesting choice - I doubt I'll ever touch disk 3. Those versions are burned into memory and in stock.
My views will be the Final Cut, then Dangerous Days, then on to Disk 4 & 5. Perhaps I'll go for Charlie's Doc on Disk 5 after Disk 2.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

If Lynch thinks that way, then good to him (as long as he only does it to his own movies) it's a director's choice. But to me, chapter have been a reality since laserdisc (and in fact, VHS could be indexed also, which is something I did already in the 80's). People expect to access parts of the movie to either play for demo, studying the editing, or just rewatch a scene they love.
In fact, I think many directors at one point in the 90's, started to edit their movie so that they can be played chapter by chapter, which each chapter a mini-movie. It's just like how the director's cut market influence the theatrical cut (ie the director gives up the fight he would have tried to win by any way possible in the past, because they know they can always make it up with the longer cut, that the studio will make anyway either with them or without them). Chaptering is a part of the package, these things have more impact on creation than we think. It started with laserdisc, every director had one of these machines, and it started changing how they viewed their work. I mean, I'm not sure Ridley Scott cared for how his movies looked on home video, until laserdisc came along and exploded at the end of the 80's.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

I used to be all for Lynch's way of thinking regarding chapter stops until one night when I was watching my DVD of "The Straight Story" and the disc froze up halfway through. After I had to shut down and restart the player, the only way I could get back to where I was was to scan through the entire movie. It was a major pain in the ass that interfered with the experience of watching the movie far more than any chapter stops ever would have.

I'm glad Lynch has finally seen the light and, beginning with Inland Empire, has consented to have chapter stops on his DVD's.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Charles -

You have done what I thought was impossible. You have made every day of the long, long wait for a BLADE RUNNER special edition worthwhile.

Thank you.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

@Charles de Lauzirika

I just finished to watch the 5 disc DVD set, and I really don't know what to say, because I'm speechless. This has got to be the most elaborate DVD set ever produced for a single movie, and I'm really happy now that this fantastic movie finally, after all these years, got the treatment it deserved. I really hope that this DVD set will generate enough buzz so that Ridley and some studio might be interested in doing another science fiction movie again - possibly a sequel of Blade Runner?

The Final Cut was obviously made with the highest respect possible towards the original material, unlike some other prominent filmmaker... The special effects are the same, only cleaner, and most fixes are hardly noticeable, even for those who are looking for them.

I was surprised at one thing though - you guys didn't fix the jump cut in the scene when Deckard encounters Leon after killing Zhora. Was this intentionally left in as a "beloved mistake" ?

Again, a big thank you for your love and dedication, and good luck with our own film project!

Greetings from Germany

Oliver Achten

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Everyone realizes that the chat transcript is up, I suppose?



Cees

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Just ordered my briefcase set from Deep Discount. Can't wait.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Actually, that's not a beloved mistake. That "flaw" was entirely intentional. And there are actually two jumpcuts in that scene. The first, when Leon knocks the gun out of Deckard's hand, and the second, when Leon punches a hole into the decontamination truck. It's an old trick employed to generate an unexpected shock or impact within a shot, used here to make Leon seem faster and more powerful. So to smoothe out those jumpcuts would have been to diminish the power of the desired effect.

And, as always, thank you Oliver, Anthony and everyone for the feedback.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Mr. de Lauzirika,


I understand the motivation to use a jump cut in this scene, but there is a small problem with it: the moment Leon slaps the gun out of Deckard's Hand, a car is passing in the background, and there is steam emerging from the right side, so that by deleting these few frames, the movement of these objects is disrupted.

But after all, it's just some small quirk which I noticed in the previous versions and I hope my observation didn't came off as belittling your efforts, which I deeply repect. The Final Cut looks and sounds incredible, and I can hardly imagine the thrill you guys must have had to assemble this version from all the original elements. My heart was beating higher when I saw all those cans of precious film elements in the documentary, destined to be destroyed....


It's the least we can do, thank you again. Considering the reaction around the world so far about the set, I can safely claim that you guys made lots of fans more than happy!

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Interesting I went to check that out on my Director's Cut version. I watched it several times (referring to the knock the gun out of Deckard's hand sequence) and even concentrating on the car's movement in the background (both in fast and slow motion) I don't see anything bothersome.

If that bothers you, then the older Bond films must drive you crazy.

Charlie:

That does raise an interesting question. What questionable instance can you share with us from your years of studying the film, only to be surprised that Ridley Scott wanted it that way?

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Damn i missed so much! Been without power for 3 days, because of an ice storm. They said it could have been a week, and for some it will be. My fear was getting Blade Runner in the mail, and not having any power to watch it. Kind of like the Twilight Zone, "Time Enough at Last", id break my glasses before stting down to read after the big one! If i worse glasses.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Alien and Blade Runner are such landmark classics that I think every studio wants Ridley to come back to the genre. He recently said he's open to the idea but that it all depends on whether he can find an interesting script. It will be interesting to see Ridley doing another sci-fi, mostly to see how it will turn out. You have to keep in mind that Alien and Blade Runner were made when Ridley was much younger and still somewhat influenced by Stanley Kubrick. What will his new sci-fi be like now that Ridley has become more ... Ridley?

Having said that, this week I saw American Gangster in theaters and somehow the razzia in the projects (incredible intense scene) made me think of Alien, you know: narrow corridors, chaos and panic. That scene almost made me wish that Ridley would do another Alien film.



Alex

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

As I already said, it doesn't really bother me at all. It's just something which I recently noticed when I watched the DC, asking myself: i wonder if they changed that scene in the Final Cut, because of all the talk that many subtle mistakes have been fixed in the Final Cut.

It takes a lot to take the suspension of disbelief from me, especially when the movie is such a masterpiece. What I really like about the Final Cut is that it mainly looks and sounds much better. There is no change in it which calls attention to itself. If someone would have shown it to me without telling me that digital alterations had been made, I wouldn't have noticed them at all (except the dove scene of course . I don't know if I even would have noticed the reshot scenes of Joanna Cassidy, which I think only proves they did a remarkable job. It is the same movie, everything is truthful to the way this film had been shot in 1982. For me it's a new landmark in showing that you actually can polish classic films without ruining them. I cringe every time I happen to watch the Star Wars SE's. They basically ruined these movies this way.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

I received my review copy yesterday evening. WBHV sent me the four disc set with the DVD of the workprint cut packaged in a separate slimcase. It will be difficult to get through the whole thing by Tuesday, so I may depart from my usual practice and offer the first part of a "progressive" review by then. In the meantime, feel free to ask any questions about the discs and their contents.

Regards,

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Ken, how does the overall image quality (clarity, detail, etc.) of the original U.S. theatrical version, the international version and the director's cut compare to the final cut version (not counting the scenes that were recently filmed just for use in the final cut)?

Also, is the color timing of the 3 earlier cuts of Blade Runner the same as it has always been on previous laserdisk and DVD sets (unlike the new final cut, which is said to have different color timing, with a palette that leans more to the green side)?

Thanks for any info.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

All cuts have been remastered, and look very good. The final cut looks best in detail, the theatrical/international/1992 DC cut looks very similar to the excellent transfer of the 2006 reissue and the workprint has the "worst" picture quality which still means: it still looks worlds better than the 1997 release. Sometimes it's grainy in special effect scenes and darker shots, but the sharpness is quite good. And when my eye is not betraying me, the workprint has 2.20:1 AR, being from a 70mm source.

Also, the main difference of the 3 cuts is the colour grading. The Final Cut is a bit darker, and has a more greenish tone in some scenes while the other versions tend more towards the blue. The workprint generally looks good in colour, almost similar to the theatrical transfer, but in some scenes, you see that they probably had to colour correct it a lot due to the fading print. The colour gradient of the gorgeous background in the Tyrell VK scene shows for example visible solarization effects. And in some dark effects shots, colours are undersaturated and tend to grey.

Check here: h t t p : / / w w w . c a p s - a - h o l i c . c o m / v e r g l e i c h . p h p ? v e r g l e i c h I D = 1 7 1

(for some reason, the forum software does not allow me to post links)

@Mr. Lauzirika: I was wondering, how much of the special effect elements did you guys recomposite in the computer, because in the documentary, it is said than some effects were composited directly in-camera by rewinding the film in each pass. Some scenes really look super clean and crisp compared to the optical composites of the earlier cuts.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

That's a good question. If the color timing on the older releases is consistent with the previous releases, I'm good. Don't care if Ridley messed with the colors in the Final Cut, because, if he's doing a new version, he should be allowed to do whatever he wants.

Revisioning older releases AND his new release ... then he's asking for it.

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

And again: the theatrical/international/1992 DC cut seem to stem from the same source as the 2006 release since it has the same picture characteristics (sharpness, brightness, contrast, colour). Did you bother to read my post & check the link?

Re: The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

This all still makes me somewhat heartbroken that Ridley's version of I Am Legend got killed by Warner Bros. something like a week or so before principal photography was set to begin, back in the summer of 1997.

They even had the official website already up and running, and I remember it feeling like a kick in the testicles that what would've been Ridley's first genre picture in over a decade got zotzed so close to the trigger getting pulled. Here's hoping he finds his way back again, down the road.