*** Official "MEMENTO" Discussion Thread - Page 4

Great, GREAT film!

Did anyone else noticed that a couple times Teddy was trying to get the Jaguar (w/ all the cash in the trunk) from Leonard??

Right at the beginning of the film when Teddy points out to Leonard that his window is busted " I can get that fixed for ya.."

Near the end of the film at the Tattoo parlor Teddy says something about parking the car in the back for him.

did anyone notice this?

`Jason

I've only seen it once but I do recally Lenny refusing to lend Teddy his car at once point. Interesting....

just watched it again and found another 'refusing to let Teddy have the car moment'

While Lenny is putting Dodd in his truck Teddy wants to drive his Jag, and is shot down.

After they let Dodd go Teddy makes a comment about why Lenny didn't take Dodd's car and offers to trade cars w/ him.

very cool

~Jay

Just purchased and watched tonight, Teddy is all over that car from beginning to end...or end to beginning, however you wanna look at it
On the first watching I really wanted to believe that Lenny was not Sammy, but the g/f caught something I missed, when they show Sammy in the hospital pretending to recognize people to make the doctors happy, there is a brief moment where it's not Sammy they show, but rather Lenny.

This is the craziest friggen movie i've ever seen! It makes other 'mind bending' films like 'Total Recall' seem about as simple to understand as an episode of 'Beavis and Butt-head'! And I love it, but i'm not even going to attempt to discuss it until I see it a couple more times. I'm going to print this thread out too.

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"How can I heal, when I can't feel time?"

Leonard from Memento

If Teddy's "all over the car from beginning to end", how come he's sitting in it waiting for Leonard to come out of Natalie's house? Wouldn't he just take off with it? Or break into the trunk and take the money?

Also, in watching the DVD for the first time, I caught further evidence that Leonard is Sammy that I didn't notice in the theater. In one of the shots of Sammy in the institution, someone walks across the shot in front of Sammy and when the person clears, there's about three frames of Leonard in Sammy's place before it cuts to a different shot.

Rob

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"That suits me down to the ground."

I've watched this movie twice so far and I will watch it again and again.

I was also wondering why Teddie was all over the car, but didn't take it when he was in it(he's a cop so you figure he'd know how to hotwire a car).
And I do think Leonard is Sammy(isn't that why you get that fleeting scene in the mental hospital of Leonard?I mean why would the director put that there?)
Great movie. I hope I can get my wife to watch it with me this weekend(I'll be watching my horror DVd's alone).I'd like her to see it. Hear Jane Sixpack's view on it.

Teddy probably didn't want to cause a 'scene' in front of Natalie's house ( he probably doesn't want to be seen by her and be associated w/ Jimmy's dissappearance anymore than he has )by breaking into the trunk.

Teddy probably figured he could somehow get Leonard to trade cars or at some point let him get in the trunk.

Watching the beggining of the flick it was pretty funny how stubborn Leonard was in not letting Teddy drive it.

~Jay

My 2 cents:

1.I agree Lennys wife is attacked but survives.
2.Lenny kills her with the insulin shots went she tests him.He is sent to a institution.Its unclear how,but he most likely escaps.This last memory is of his wife dying so he has no reason to believe other wise.Lenny warps the Sammy story in his mind-he can learn by conditioning ot instinct.
3.John G IS the person who raped his wife and Lenny kills that person with the help of Teddy.
4.Teddy says "I took that picture of you" "I was sure youd remember" For this I think Teddy took the pic and kept it for himself, and Lenny without any evidence that he finally got revenge forgot and it started all over again.
5.Teddy uses Lenny to make some cash with James G(notice the tatoo on Lennys right forearm that has "....or James" a tatoo Lenny added himself(from the clues Teddy had been giving him)
6.Lenn kills James(Natalies b/f).Teddy tells Lenny everything so Lenny writes down clues to lead to Teddy so he cant be used by Teddy again.
7.Dod thinks Natalie has the money(thats in Lennys trunk).Afraid of what Dod will do, Natalie uses Lenny to get rid of Dod.
8.Natalie does realize it was Lenny who killed Jimmy, but since its no fault of his own and hes obviously been used she helps him kill Teddy since hes behind it.
9.I also believe with the death of Teddy, the cycle was broken and doubt there would be another John G.


If you remember when Nataie puts her hand over his heart he says somthing about saving that spot. Thats where the "I Did It" tatoo is. I think thats also to represent he did what he set out to do-but he realized as long as Teddy was alive he could be manipulated-so Teddy was the last John G.

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Visit My Pathetic WebPage
"....With that in mind,I humbly add my own prophecy of
what the dawn of the new millennium shall bring forth-
one thousand more years of the same old crap" Jose Chung




[Edited last by JonZ on September 07, 2001 at 02:46 PM]

I don't think Lenny and Sammy are the same people, the reason Sammy was giving his wife the shots is because he was a doctor before is brain damage.

Lenny was never a doctor so why would he be giving shots to his wife?

I have only watched the move twice so my view could change, but after reading 5 pages of comments and 2 viewings I do not think Lenny = Sammy.

I do think Teddy has used Lenny for several murders.

The reason Teddy doesn't drive off in the car in front of Natts house is he doesn't have the keys, Lenny has the keys he just forgot to lock the car.

Another thing I wonder about is in one point of the movie someone asks Lenny why he drives such a nice car and wears nice cloths, he says he got the Money from Insurance after his wife died, why did he make that comment up? Their is no way he could remember what he got after his wife died.

Great movie tho!

[Edited last by Lance_R on September 07, 2001 at 07:17 PM]

> "I don't think Lenny and Sammy are the same people, the reason Sammy was giving his wife the shots is because he was a doctor before is brain damage."

huh?? where was that said in the movie? I don't think they ever said Sammy was a doctor

~Jay

Not to sound like a know-it-all, but I don't think there is any doubt that Lenny = Sammy. The evidence is overwhelming and the evidence that's there, it makes no since if Lenny isn't Sammy.

For instance, the quick shot of Lenny in the mental hospital (replacing Sammy) makes no sense unless Lenny is Sammy. Why would that be there?

There's a quick flash of Lenny remembering the insulin needle as he sits on Natalie's sofa. Why put that there if it means nothing?

Also, the argument that Lenny isn't Sammy cause Lenny couldn't give insulin shots is incorrect. A Doctor doesn't need to give insulin shots. Many ppl with diabetes give them to themself and anyone can be trained to do so.

Finally, I remember reading that Joey Pants (Teddy) gave an interview about Memento and confirmed that Lenny is Sammy. Might be in this thread somewhere.

Doug

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This thread has been wonderful. Like everyone else, I was really impacted by the movie. In fact, I was kind of bummed that anybody had me watch it as I couldn't concentrate on anything else after I watched it.

I don't believe Lenny = Sammy. I think Lenny transferred some of his experiences to Sammy. Teddy doesn't say there isn't a Sammy. He says Sammy didn't have a wife. There are also some things in the police reports that contradict some of the things I've seen posted here.

By way of summary, let me say that you guys should really check out the extra features on the DVD. For instance, the Short Story (50 pages of text) written by the director's brother. When I finished with the extras, I had a better understanding of the movie. NOTE: apparently the Canadian version doesn't have these extras, but does have an option for viewing in chronological order.

I also enjoyed the salon article analysis by Andy Klein.

Mikah has a point that I'll clarify in my post. True, Lenny isn't Sammy. There is a real Sammy Jankis but he's not the person portrayed in the flashbacks. I believe that's actually Lenny's story. Perhaps not every detail but close, particuarly the fate of his wife.

Doug

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Something to think about: Notice the similarities between how Leonard is preparing to tattoo himself with a pen & needle, and when Sammy is preparing to inject his wife with a shot of insulin. How did he learn how to prepare a tattoo needle?

"I don't think Lenny and Sammy are the same people, the reason Sammy was giving his wife the shots is because he was a doctor before is brain damage."


Sammy was an accountant, not a doctor.

[Edited last by Mark_wH on September 08, 2001 at 04:38 AM]

Hum...

I did not go through every post in this thread so perhaps this has been mentioned already...

Does anyone else believe that Natalie has no feelings for Lenny, but used him to 1) get rid of the people who were after her boyfriends money and thus her and 2) get rid of Teddy?

--
Holadem

I think the quick shot of Lenny in the hospitol show that the Sam Jenkins story is in fact about him.

I that while Natalie used Lenny,she began to feel sorry for him after he was talking about his wife and how will
he get over the grief if he cant feel time speech he made laying in bed with her.

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Visit My Pathetic WebPage
"....With that in mind,I humbly add my own prophecy of
what the dawn of the new millennium shall bring forth-
one thousand more years of the same old crap" Jose Chung

Good point Jon.. Natalie was kinda rude in the beginning (the end, heh) but after that night of Leonard's dispair speech, she really connected with him.

I'm still not sure Natalie knew what she was doing in setting up Teddy. I think that cheapens the fact that it was actually Leonard who set Teddy up.

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That is a great comment.



I saw this the first time, my wife didn't. Reversed and frame-scanned to show her. I still hadn't pieced together the movie at that point, but the idea that Leonard is Sammy came up.

Brilliantly executed film.


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--Jay

"No one can hear when you're screaming in digital."

My Home Theatre Pictures...

"You're no messiah. You're, you're a movie of the week. You're a ... t-shirt, at best."

Alright, let's try this again ...

On my third viewing, I took some notes about things that still bugged me and I had not read a satisfactory explanation for, and I thought I'd present them to you for some educated feedback and discussion. They are:

1. Who was on the other end of Lenny's telephone conversation?

I think a good case could be made for Teddy post-hangup - Lenny says "sir" a couple of times, the caller refers to the police report, Lenny even says "I know you're a cop ..." and eventually Lenny is told about Jimmy ("What drugdealer?"). But what about pre-hangup? Was that Teddy too and Lenny simply had his reboot in the intervening time? During this pre-hangup period (essentialy the first half of the B&W flashback scenes), Lenny goes through the Sammy Jankis story and his own history in excruciating detail, but Teddy reveals that he is sick about hearing about him (in the coffeeshop). Was Teddy merely trying to placate him on the phone or was this someone else, someone who had never heard the Sammy Jankis story? Is it possible this was Jimmy doing some background checks (remember he says "Sammy Jankis" before he dies)? Then again, Jimmy says "yeah, I remember you" as if they have met before, so it's possible that he heard the story then. It could not have been Natalie because she didn't really know or care about Lenny at that point in time. Before the hangup, Lenny says "call me back," so he was clearly interested in talking with this person more and there is even some implied trust.

2. Why was Lenny listening at the motel room walls with the glass?

I think there's a faint telephone ring in the background - did Lenny have a phone number that he thought might go to another room? How did he get the number - *69 or something? Remember, he still does not have Teddy's number or picture at this point in time. Teddy was obviously in close proximity since he slips the photo under the door so soon after Lenny hangs up on him, but does that necessarily imply that he is staying in the same motel?

3. Why doesn't Lenny have more pictures from the time right before the film takes place?

He has the photo of his truck, and that's about it - he doesn't even have one of Teddy, with whom the film implies he has had a lengthy relationship. He has clearly trained himself to use pictures as a memory crutch, so it is not like this is a new technique he is developing (in addition to the fact that a Polaroid was taken when he presumably killed the real John G.). Teddy could have simply stolen incriminating photos to create a Lenny Tabula Rosa, but that strikes me as a lazy answer.

4. Do the B&W flashbacks with Sammy and his wife alone prove that Lenny did kill his wife with an overdose of insulin?

My logic is that the entire film is a first person limited narrative (Lenny is in all the scenes) save for those few scenes in which Sammy and his wife are alone and the Sammy/subliminal Lenny shot in the nursing home. If we are indeed in Lenny's head, does that not mean that we are seeing Lenny's altered memories with the Jankises standing in for himself and his wife? Again, dismissing these scenes as fabricated imagery from the facts of which Lenny had knowledge just seems too easy.

Leonard has full memory before the "incident" so he would know that his wife was not a diabetic and Sammy was real and Sammy killed his wife with an insulin overdose. Correct?

I would like to know more of Jimmy Grant and Leonards relation ship. How long have they known each other etc.

I think Teddy was the guy on the phone every time and after Leonard would talk about Sammy long enough he wouldn't remember it was Teddy.

[Edited last by Jeremiah on September 20, 2001 at 04:03 PM]

[Edited last by Jeremiah on September 20, 2001 at 07:25 PM]

I just thought of something but I don't know what to make of it...

Remember at the end when Jimmy Grants calls Leonard "Sammy"? There is no good reason for him to say it unless he thought that Leonards name was Sammy right?

Leonards wife had to of died later because the intruder was strangeling her and then was never able to finish her off before Leonard came in. It wasn't like she was shot and dying.

But Leonard should be able to remember if his wife was a diabetic and Sammy Jankis was the one who gave his wife the insulin overdose because these things were pre "incident".

Someone please give me your thoughts.

Memento is an inigma rapped up in a riddle.

We have to take Leonard's word for that, though. Remember (pun not intended) that the overriding theme of the movie is the fallability..., no, malleability of memory. Yet another layer to this is that even Leonard's new "memories" of pictures, notes, and tattoos get twisted and manipulated.

I don't know if this is a first, but let's get a drunk's perspective on this (I'm pretty sure of it, I killed six beers in 30 minutes. Last time I watched a movie drunk was Office Space. Go ahead, ask Wes Ray about it.).

1. Lenny is Sammy. Why do I believe this? I think that Sammy was a case that Lenny was investigating. He learns about Sammy having a condition much like Lenny does. So he writes down the name, remembers Sammy. Lenny conditions himself to remember something akin to Sammy's story (when in probable fact that Sammy's story is Lenoard's own).

2. Lenny's wife doesn't die as a result of the assault. As evident by Teddy's speeches and one of the final shots in the movie, Lenny's wife was indeed raped, but she never really dies (as Lenny believes otherwise throughout most of the movie). So Lenny goes on this search (as far as Teddy tells it), they find the murderer, and Lenny kills him. This happened a year ago, according to Teddy. I truly believe that the true story was life was going on fine, ladeeda, and Lenny (because of his state), keeps giving his wife insulin. When Lenny's wife dies of insulin overdose, Lenny comes up with the Sammy story to cover up his own faults with his disease.

3. I'm iffy with this one. I believe that either Teddy (the cop) feels pity for Lenny and keeps perpetuating the myth that Lenny is still looking for his wife's killer (when in reality, he already knows that the killer has been found), or that Teddy takes advantage of Lenny's disease and uses Lenny in drug busts for Teddy to embezzle money off drug dealers.

4. The missing "I did it tattoo." Again, this relates to the third thing I'm saying. The tatoo helps signify that he had already solved the case. But as I re-watched certain scenes, I noticed that the "He raped and murdered my wife" tatoo was there when his wife was still alive! What's the possible explanation? The only thing he remembers is his wife in that plastic sack. He thinks she's already dead. That may be why Lenny has that tatoo in the first place (thinking that his wife was dead, and he was on an investigation). So Lenny's on this investigation, thinking his wife's dead, when, I guess after her recovery from the rape, she comes back to him. So day after day, she reminds him that she's still alive. After the insulin overdose death, her real death plays into the tattoo (forgive me here, I'm not being too articulate because I'm drunk, so I'll give a better explanantion tommrrow.). Oh well, here's my cinema score.

A-

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"I don't know, Marge. Trying is the first step towards failure." - Homer J. Simpson

My DVD Collection

I also think that Leonard did know everything prior the incident so he should have remebered it if his wife was diabetic. It is stated numerous times that he tries to forget his wife but never is able to even after he burns her things.
If Leonard was indeed Sammy, how could he remember his condition after he read the "Remember ..." Tatoo? He had very clear memories of Sammy like he had about his wife.

I just saw this fabulous movie last week (a rental, though I promptly went out and ordered it) and have only seen it once, but I have a question I haven't been able to answer and don't know if it's been addressed in the thread (I don't have time to read the whole thing, but I've browsed it and didn't see any references to my question). So here it is:

Why the hell does Leonard put on John Grant's clothes and take his car? He tells him to take his clothes off so he "won't get blood on them." But why would he wear them? It's not like his memory problem has anything to do with it. He should realize that he's setting himself up to get caught if he's walking around in a dead/missing guy's clothes and driving his car.

Or is that it? Does he subconsciously want to get caught so he won't kill yet another John G? That part just has me baffled.


If this has been address please accept my apologies and politely point me to the page of the thread where it was discussed.

David

I thought I would revive this thread because I wanted to add something about the Leonard/Sammy Jankis debate.

I believe that they are indeed 2 separate people. Like mentioned above, Leonard remembers everything prior to the accident. The one thing that appears to be overlooked is the final conversation between Leonard and Teddy.

Teddy clearly tells him that Sammy did not have a wife. If Sammy wasn't real (meaning he was supposed to be Leonard) then why did Teddy say this? Teddy obviously knew about Sammy Jankis.

Sammy Jankis is a real person -- he's just not the person Lenny claims is Sammy Jankis. That's Lenny

So what you saying is that Sammy Jankis is not Lenny, but Lenny is who he thinks Sammy Jankis is, even though he thinks Sammy is someone else, when in fact that person is him (Lenny)?

That only leaves me with one question -

Who's Keyser Soze?