The WWE™ - Page 4

Smackdown was a good show.

Flair had another great promo. I just noticed tonight that he does too much finger pointing.

Scott Hall looked thin but that's expected. He needs new tights and knee pads.

I heard Stephanie is a big fan of I Love Lucy, so I wonder if that's why the dog was named Lucy.

Kevin Nash's flip over the top rope wasn't bad. I've seen many wrestlers do that, especially when they were unsuccessful on the first try.

I'm not looking towards the NWO vs. Austin and Rock match on Raw. There are better ways to build the PPV matches in the last minute and without spoiling them.



I have to disagree with you about 90% of the WCW wrestlers being awful. The only WCW wrestler who appeared on TV that would come closest to being awful was Hugh Morris, though I view him as being average. Heavyweights like Booker T, DDP, Storm, Awesome, and Kanyon are very good. If you like cruiserweights then that is where WCW really delivered, unfortunately you missed out on it. WWF signed many great WCW cruiserweights but only three have appeared on TV: Shane Helms, Kidman and Chavo. Right before WWF bought WCW, Kid Kash was in WCW and I believe so was Modest. I wish WCW were still around because the cruiserweight tag team division got off to a hot start.

~T

Obviously you didn't watch a lot of WCW then Jeff. Because the wrestling in WCW for the most part, especially the cruiserweights and luchadores were far better than anything seen in the WWF. And Kevin Nash started in the WWF before he started in WCW. He became a big time main eventer in the WWF as Big Diesel before he ever stepped foot in WCW. So you can't lay him on WCW. Same with Scott Hall and Hogan.

As for bringing in the cream of the crop, Vince hasn't even come close to bringing in WCW's cream of the crop. Steiner, Goldberg, Sting, the Luchadores are WCW's cream. They've got DDP and Booker, and they're pretty good, but they aren't the cream either. They've got Flair, and he was definitely in WCW's cream of the crop. The problem is he over 50. But he can still be fun to watch. You also have to remember the ring is bigger in the WWF. Also, these guys were inactive for quite a while after WCW's last show. You see after they got used to the ring size and got the rust out, they could easily hold their own.

The problem in WCW wasn't the wrestling, at least not until everyone got lazy. The problem was the writing, the booking, politics, and having no leader.

Sure you can. In the WWF all three of them were getting just a little too big in the ego department, and thought that they were bigger than the company. That's why Vince wasn't so sorry to see them go. In WCW that attitude was just cultivated to a ridiculous degree by the people in charge in WCW, and helped bring about the death of WCW. They were responsible for helping to partially bury all those luchadores and cruiserweights you're so fond of (and so am I, at least to some extent, although some of the spotfests they engaged in at times got a little much). I won't agree with you about Steiner and Goldberg being the cream of anything, but Sting sure as hell was, and Steiner and Goldberg are proven money-makers despite my personal opinions of them. But the whole infatuation with Hogan, Nash and Hall's perceived starpower is what buried that company in the first place, and WCW should have been smart enough to see it coming. They mortgaged their future for the present.
Speaking of WCW guys, where's Vampiro? I really liked that guy and thought he would have been good in the WWF. And is Kidman still part of the WWF? Hopefully the rumors I've been hearing about the split will be true. I've heard that one part of the company will be more focused on wrestling, and the other will be focused on the entertainment. Then maybe we can have our cake and eat it too.
I feel sorry for Sid Vicious now. I never could stand the guy, but did any of you hear the interview he did at www.betweentheropes.com? I didn't, but I did read some excerpts about it on www.1wrestling.com. Poor guy sounds really down on his chances in wrestling, but a bit wiser in regards to mistakes he may have made in the past. I hope he can somehow come back in some capacity.

Sure did, saw them all in the WWF originally, and then later sucking worse in WCW.

And Kevin Nash started in the WWF before he started in WCW. He became a big time main eventer in the WWF as Big Diesel before he ever stepped foot in WCW. So you can't lay him on WCW. Same with Scott Hall and Hogan.

As for bringing in the cream of the crop, Vince hasn't even come close to bringing in WCW's cream of the crop.

Steiner
About to explode from steroid abuse

Goldberg
One trick pony

Sting
retired

"And Kevin Nash started in the WWF before he started in WCW."



F.Y.I. you guys, Hall and Nash wrestled in WCW/NWA long before WWF. OZ... Diamond Studd... ring a bell? Early 90's, maybe?

Kids nowadays, no respect for history.

I don't agree with the theory that guys like Nash, Hall and Hogan caused the death of WCW. In my opinion, the 2 main catalysts for WCW's failure were: 1) It got oversaturated with the addition of Thunder to the weekly programming (what happened to WWF with Smackdown) 2) WWF was putting on revolutionary programming for the mass audience. Simply, things got stale in WCW and viewers tuned into Raw. Afterwards, that is when things began to collapse behind the scenes with Bischoff leaving, Russo coming in, etc. Under Bischoff the cruiserweights were treated very well, it was when Russo took over that they started to disappear or get poorly used.

Vampiro received a concussion from Awesome at a Thunder that put him out of wrestling for a long time. I don't know if he has fully recovered yet. I think he has everything that the WWF is looking for in a wrestler.

Kidman is still with the WWF. He's been off of TV since the Alliance became extinct. The only wrestler I know who has been let go in WWF is Jerry Lynn. If they really have plans for a cruiserweight division, I can't understand that decision.

I feel sorry for Sid too. I saw the PPV in which his injury occurred. Although they didn't show his leg breaking, he was clearly in so much pain. I've always liked the guy.

~T

Vampiro, I believe, has been healed for quite some time and wrestles regularly in Japan. If I remember correctly, according to the wrestling "dirt sheets", Vampiro was a major a**hole behind the scenes in WCW (A jerk?!?. In WCW?!?! Go on!). His wrestling ability was nothing special, and besides his unique look, has nothing impressive to bring to the WWF. It takes more than a unique look to be an interesting character. Ask Goldust.

As for the reason for WCW's demise, it was a number of factors, the major ones being greed and stupidity. Greed by the wrestlers, and stupidity by the promoters. A lot of fans look back at WCW and have fond memories. I do myself, but the fact is, the VAST majority of the time, it sucked. If I remember correctly, the company really only turned a profit for those few years during the most recent wrestling boom. People seem to forget the embarrassingly pathetic stuff like Robocop, Beach Blast 93, the Shockmaster, and the INCREDIBLY stupid move of giving Hogan Vs. Goldberg away... ON FREE TV!!! They got no one to blame but themselves.

They're older, slower, and worse in the WWF now than they ever were in WCW. They were part of the biggest angle in wrestling history. Now they're just a bunch of old farts in the same angle being ripped off by Vinnie Mac in a desperate attempt for ratings. Big Diesel and Razor Ramon was far worse than Hall and Nash in WCW NWO.


Maybe! But better than Booker and DDP ever were or ever will be. Far more interesting. And could at least pop a crowd. Not to mention, the overwhelming majority of fans in the WWF would rather see him than Booker or DDP. All I can do now is laugh at Booker and DDP now, and what Vince has done to them. DDP especially.





Only because he has no desire to sign with the WWF. Just has no use for the WWF and is not gonna give up a guaranteed 3 milion per year to sign for far less. Doesn't loved wrestling enough to work til he's 50 at it. Huge draw, big time main eventer, extremely popular, and no doubt the number one guy from WCW the WWF fans wanted to see. Goldberg/Austin makes more money than any single thing they can do now. Pure money in the bank.



True! Again, had no use for the WWF to want to go there. Has said so in interviews. That's why he never left WCW. Again, money in the bank in the WWF. A big time main eventer and huge draw.

Just my opinions.

Vince could have had an absolutely epic angle with the WCW invasion, and he stunnk up the joint and blew the biggest moneymaking angle in wrestling history. He'll never get that chance. So,cream of the crop? Hardly. What he got was some leftovers on the cheap, and a couple of midcarders at best.None of the luchadores, and only a few of the great cruiserwieghts.

I'll say this jeff. If the current incarnation of the WWF that we've seen the last year is what is considered to be good, I'll pass. I watched the beginnings of WCW, as well as the NWA year, and the wrestling in it was vastly superior to the stuff I've seen from the WWF lately. One Raw they had a total of 18 minutes of wrestling in a 2 hour show. The WWF has become nothing more than a soap opera.

As for cream of the crop, I guess that depends on what you like. So no point in arguing over certain wrestlers. But I'll say this much. He sure as hell didn't get the people that his fans wanted him to get. He sure didn't get the guys that could have made millions for him. He sure didn't get the guys that could have had incredible matchups with any number of his WWF main eventers. He screwed the pooch on that. Buying WCW will turn out to be the worst thing he's ever done.

I don't think I have ever laughed at an Undertaker promo until last Monday night when he was kickin' the shit out of David Flair...

David Flair says "What are you doing" in a weak, out of breath gasp...

The Undertaker replys "What am I doing!?!? I'm KICKIN' YER ASS, That's what I'm Doin'!!!" -throwing a nice punch to the face of David as he emphasized the word KICKIN'



Am I the only one who enjoyed watching DF get his ass abused by the Taker?

What?

I about died laughing when the NWO dumped that coffee all over the poor coffee guy! Man, I love the WWF again! Stephanie MacMahon is frgging hot and what kinda roids is HHH on!? Did you guys see Flair on Smackdown going nuts and saying "whoo!!" I was dying!

I toast a Steveweiser to the WWF for making it the most enjoyable I've seen since the Undertaker still dressed in black and had Paul Bearer.

Oh ya...I agree the "what" chant has to be stopped !

BTW, Hogan turns 49 in August. (source, imdb.com)

Yeah, that hot coffee scene was nice... the guy did a pretty good job of selling it and making it disturbing with his shrieks of pain. It's just the premise of having an official 'Coffee Checker' that I don't get???

I call HHH 'Triple HGH' as in Human Growth Hormone.

I never said what is on now is good

It was really good 3 years ago. What's on now is stale due to lack of competition.

On Byte This, Vince McMahon said that we can expect more cruiserweight action after the split. It's a shame that guys like Jerry Lynn, Elix Skipper and Kid Romeo (I loved their team), and Kaz Hayashi (he was the best wrestler to watch during those last WCW months) are gone. I had absolutely no idea they had a mini WCW invasion angle. I'm a big fan of Mike Sanders. In fact, I think I was the first person to make a sign for him: I had a "Mike Sanders is the commish and a god" sign at Nitro/Thunder, and he pointed it out to the camera man and Scott Hudson made a remark about it. Afterwards, I started seeing "Mike Sanders is a god" signs on the shows.

The Island Boys sound good. I kind of miss big men tag teams like Earthquake and Typhoon. Sounds like these guys can work well in the ring though.

~T

I just wish Edge & Christian would be back together. It's just not TLC w/o them

I totally agree. Spliting them was a huge mistake. Edge has become such a bore.

Dudes this is the official WWF thread. Anyone gonna respond?

Alright, Ryan.

Splitting up Edge/Christian was inevitable. How many times can you watch the same 6 guys go through the same tables, fall off the same old ladders, and be hit by the same old chairs before it gets completely boring. We saw it at No Mercy 99, Wrestlemania 2000, Summerslam 2000, Wrestlemania X-7, and even on Smackdown. I loved the matches as much as anybody. They were all superb, but they couldn't keep topping themselves. Maybe, a Hell in a Cell, but that's about it. Anything more extreme, and one of them would probably end up in a wheelchair.

The WWF completely messed up the whole Edge/Christian singles pushes, but what with the whole crappy Invasion angle, McMahon lovefests, half the programming dedicated to Austin and/or Rock, and now the NWO, they got completely lost in the shuffle.

And it's not just them. Who out there actually cares about the Hardyz or Dudleyz? They're all talented wrestlers, but how the heck have they changed over the past 2 years? The tag division is completely stale, and I don't think Chuck/Billy are gonna revive it.

Billy and Chuck are good wrestlers, but the whole way the WWF have handled both B&C and E&C is rediculous. Thus far B&C have made little impression being tag team champs. It's almost like they are just there and no more, almost expected to lose their titles at Wrestlemania. I hope these guys last. It's a complete tradegy E&C aren't competiting in this year's Wrestlemania. It was too early to split them IMO. last year, we had an awesome tag team event.

Chuck Palumbo is alright, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever put the wood "Billy" and "good wrestler" together in the same sentence. Billy Gunn is perhaps the single biggest piece of shit in the WWF in the last five years. He can't wrestle, he can't talk, all he can do is hurt people with his sloppy wrestling and greased up body. The WWF is mishandling Chuck Palumbo alright, they put him with the worst wrestler in the company. Hell, even Big Boss Man is entertaining compared to this guy.

"even Big Boss Man is entertaining compared to this guy."

Let's not say things we can't take back. As bad as Billy is, was, and will forever be, at least he was never in the Kennel from Hell.

That's such a great DVD. I would love to see a 2-3 DVD set covering his whole career.

I really hope No Way Out and Hell in a Cell and the Rumble matches are on DVD at some point soon

The problem that WWF has to deal with is that they've done so much, they've gone to the extreme, in terms of angles and wrestling; everything they have done recently or will do will pale in comparison to the past.

I thought Christian held up well after the split of the tag team, but Edge didn't regardless of how he was pushed. I find him to be very dull in the ring.

I'm another member of the "I hate Billy Gunn" club. The only fan of Billy seems to be J.R. who always called him "the best pure athlete in the WWF."

Chuck is pretty good. I would've liked to have seen a few other NBT members like Sean O'Haire stay on TV.

That cage match with Bossman and Snow was so awful that it was comical.

Did anyone watch Weakest Link? I thought it was a lot more entertaining than the last WWF one, and this set of people seemed to do better. Bubba was surprisingly knowledgable (and funny), as I think he was the strongest link in all rounds; on the other hand, Steve Austin was worse than Booker T.

~T

HBO was promoting a new (?) season of Bob Costas's show and one of the clips was an interview with Vince McMahon.

I've read Costas's anti-WWF remarks before and the clip showed Vince acting very...well, pissed off and confrontational. I thought "DAMN! and I missed it!"

Nobody here probably has an idea if that particular show will be repeated anytime soon but does anyone know where I could find a transcript to that rather heated interview?

Anyone catch RAW?

It was great to see the nWo in action again. The biggest egos in wrestling all in the same ring!

And the Hollywood Leg Drop was just too sweeeeeeeeeet!

Here is the link for the transcript. HBO has it archived.

Vince vs Costas

Raw was wonderful last night.... best show in months. Although, I can't seem to stay awake during Smackdown anymore. Makes me want to spend the 39.95 for WM X-8

I thought Raw was a bad show. There were some things that they did on the show that puzzled me.

I dreaded the NWO vs. Rock and Austin match because I felt it would spoil the Wrestlemania matches, especially the Hogan vs. Rock one. WWF exceeded my expectations. I thought that maybe there would be some foreign objects, some run-ins, a lot of teasing, etc, but basically it was a clean match. I can't believe they let Rock and Hogan wrestle against each other for that amount of time and to let Hogan get a clean win over Rock (I can't remember the last time Rock jobbing cleanly). It did absolutely nothing to promote the Wrestlemania matches. Before Raw, I had no idea whether Hogan or Rock will win, but I think it's safe to say who will now. Regardless of all of that, I thought the match was good. NWO guys didn't hold anything back, especially Nash.

I can't believe that with a week left to Wrestlemania, they centered the WWF championship angle around a dog. The dog crapping and getting run over by the limousine were absurd. Why give Triple H a serious injury a week before Wrestlemania? It would work better if they had done that a week or two ago.

The board meeting made no sense whatsoever. Before NWO arrived, McMahon wanted Flair to leave WWF to let McMahon gain control of it, Flair refused. Then because of that McMahon brought in the NWO to invade, poison, and kill the WWF. Now McMahon is trying to get WWF back again?

~T

WrestleMania is tonight. Here is the full 11 Match card:

Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock
Triple H vs. Chris Jericho for the Undisputed WWF Title
Scott Hall vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair
RVD vs. William Regal for the WWF IC Title
Kane vs. Kurt Angle
A.P.A. vs. Hardy's vs. Dudley's vs. Billy and Chuck for the WWF Tag Team Titles
Lita vs. Trish vs. Jazz for the WWF Women's Title
Christian vs. DDP for the WWF European Title
Edge vs. Booker T.
Goldust vs. Maven for the Hardcore Title

I'm pretty excited about tonight. It's WrestleMania!!