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post #61 of 3869
3/3/02 at 10:10am
That's what I see as part of the problem Marvin. Vince said they were a reall threat to the WWF, that they were a poison. Then what did he do? Right after establshing them as a real threat, he had Austin squash them. That totally ruined any credibility they had as legitimate threats to the WWF. Now the audience doesn't take them seriously. And if we go by ratings, the NWO is starting to fade already. I attribute this to two things.

1. The statements I made above

2. The NWO angle is nothing more than a rehash that's been beaten to death.

Now, I don't think anyone wanted to see the NWO dominate for 6 months like they did in WCW. But they should have at least dominated for maybe 3-4 weeks. Maybe they will. Maybe we haven't seen it yet. But another problem, does anyone really take a 50+ year old Hogan, a 45year old Nash, and a 40+ year old Hall as serious threats? Probably not. How old is Hall anyway? He's gotta be 40, at least. I know Nash is well over 40.
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post #62 of 3869
3/3/02 at 11:43am
Quote:
But another problem, does anyone really take a 50+ year old Hogan, a 45year old Nash, and a 40+ year old Hall as serious threats? Probably not. How old is Hall anyway? He's gotta be 40, at least. I know Nash is well over 40.


Hogan is 48
Hall is 43
Nash is 42

I don't mind this angle since I stopped watching for 6 years having been a huge fan in the 1980s and early 90s. They aren't serious threats, but they sell a story to people that have maybe stopped watching wrestling. It's good to see a recap of what the nWo was. The Rock's continual presense as a face is becoming a lot more boring and stale. He's been saying the same tripe for the past 2 years. The WWF really need to re-develope him. I was in hysterics seeing the nWo pounce on him.

That "WHAT?!" chant has got to go.
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post #63 of 3869
3/3/02 at 12:39pm
Hogan was 48 when he was in WCW. He was about 46 when he came to WCW. Hogan's at least 50. As for the other two, that's probably about right. But Hogan is older than 48. He may want us to think that. But I don't believe Hogan is 48.

Quote:
That "WHAT?!" chant has got to go.


That is annoying.
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post #64 of 3869
3/3/02 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Hogan was 48 when he was in WCW. He was about 46 when he came to WCW. Hogan's at least 50. As for the other two, that's probably about right. But Hogan is older than 48. He may want us to think that. But I don't believe Hogan is 48.


Hogan is 48. He was born Augest 11th 1953. Any source via the Internet will confirm that.
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post #65 of 3869
3/4/02 at 12:30am
Well, if not 50 he certainly looks it. Thanks for the info.
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post #66 of 3869
3/4/02 at 10:06am
Quote:
Uh, can you quote me examples of Goldberg being violent in public? No Thi, don't think you can because he hasn't. The only incident was him yelling at HHH for making derogatory comments about him in an interview, and even then it was just yelling. Something he admits he was wrong in. Let's don't make stuff up about the guy.


Notice I said "supposedly."

The problem with the NWO is that they haven't been as destructive as they were in WCW nor as Vince McMahon promoted them to be. In addition, each wrestler hardly has his original personality. McMahon wanted ratings, I think it would have been more successful to let them be themselves and let the fans decide who they want to cheer or boo. It wouldn't have hurt WWF if they had been a destructive force from No Way Out all the way to Wrestlemania. Rock is returning the week before Wrestlemania, so he could have teamed up with Austin to get the long awaited payback.

Reports from house shows indicated that Hogan is in great shape and that Hall isn't.

Hopefully the split will make angles and wrestlers more fresh. If you do the math, the way The Rock has been appearing in WWF for the past 2 years would have been equivalent to 4 or more years several years ago.

Bret Hart was offered by WWF to make an appearance at Wrestlemania as a special guest referee for the WWF title match. He also said that they would let him punch Vince McMahon in front of the Toronto crowd. He turned it down. Also, WWF had plans for Hart to be part of the invasion angle last year, but McMahon failed to meet Hart.

~T
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post #67 of 3869
3/4/02 at 10:20am
That's Bret Hart, being a whiny little moron as usual

He caused the Screwjob himself, by refusing to drop the belt at the PPV. If he didn't want to drop it in Canada, then he should have extended his contract so that he'd drop it on the next PPV. Vince would not have his people go to another company wearing his belt, and that was beyond "reasonable control" that he had. I'm sure the no one was in on it except Earl Hebner who was actually involved in the match. Vince has made his peace offering, and Bret has rejected it, so he can go be a spoiled brat all he wants. I just hope he saved those fat WCW paychecks
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post #68 of 3869
3/4/02 at 11:04am
Jeff,

Let's not forget that Brett's brother Owen was killed three years ago during a WWF Pay-Per-View stunt that went horribly wrong.

I think it's probably a little unfair of you to be calling him a whiny little whatever given those past events. You'll remember the Hart family blaming the McMahon's for Owen's accident, and the WWF settling with the Hart family in court.

I'm sure he's got some pretty negative feelings for the WWF that have absolutely nothing to do with him having lost the title to Shawn Micheals the way he did. Given the circumstances, I can more than understand if Brett wants no part of the WWF.

Moe.
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post #69 of 3869
3/4/02 at 1:24pm
Bret did not deserve what happened to him in montreal. Vince screwed bret that night. I'm tired of the WWF marks who think Vince can do no wrong. He can. He is the greatest promoter of all time, no doubt, but he is an evil person. Remember, he did this to Wendy Ricther in 85 after she wanted to have a lawyer look at a contract which was prposed by The WWF. Not wanting Ricther to do this, they pulled the same screwjob on her.
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post #70 of 3869
3/4/02 at 3:21pm
Quote:
He is the greatest promoter of all time, no doubt, but he is an evil person.
Oh, COME ON! Give me a freakin' break. What are you, twelve? I think you're confusing his on air persona with his real life one. He's evil? How can you even say that! Do you have some intimate knowledge of him that you'd care to share with the rest of us?
I'm tired of the Bret Hart marks who think Bret can do no wrong. He can. He is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, no doubt, but he is a bitter person.

Be serious, it took two people for the Montreal screwjob to happen. It took Vince, who wouldn't let Bret go out the way he wanted, and it took Bret to think that he was bigger than the WWF. I guess he found out the hard way when he left the WWF that he wasn't.
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post #71 of 3869
3/4/02 at 5:43pm
Bret Hart should be bitter after what happened to him. As I remember, he had a creative control clause in his contract, and therefore didn't have to lose to Shawn Michaels at all. But he was willing to lose the next night on Raw. And after all those years with WWF, Hart deserved to go out the way he wanted and McMahon should have trusted him.

I don't think McMahon has made peace with Hart, he just wants Hart back when WWF needs him for success. There have been several recreations of and references to the Montreal screw job, and if I remember correctly, they even did it in front of the Hart family who were at ringside on a Raw.

~T
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post #72 of 3869
3/4/02 at 7:24pm
Vince won't let it go with Bret. Likewise Bret won't let it go with Vince. Maybe Me calling Vince Evil was a bit strong, but he is an egomaniac.
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post #73 of 3869
3/4/02 at 8:23pm
Exactly. When you're dealing with two egos that huge (and after watching Wrestling with Shadows, Bret does have a huge ego, and everyone knows Vince does) something like that is bound to happen. I don't know that Vince still holds anything against Bret, but I'd imagine Bret does. And frankly, while it might not be rational, I can understand him not wanting to work for Vince when his brother died there, even if it was an accident.
I really wanted Bret to do well in WCW, but they just didn't seem to have any idea what to do with him. Just shows you how screwed up that company was. They have one of the most charismatic, talented wrestlers in the history of the business, and they can't figure out what to do with him. I wish he'd come back to the WWF, if only because he deserves to go out better than he has.
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post #74 of 3869
3/4/02 at 8:35pm
Brett's had some terrible things happen to him and his family. I wish it hadn't happened. But the fact is Bret is a whiny, crybaby. This industry made him rich. It gave him a secure life for he and his family. And Bret became famous from wrestling. And he constantly whines about Vince and wrestling. Hey, I'm no fan of Vince McMahon at all. But it's time to let that go. The only time I hear Vince talk about it is when asked in interviews. Let it go Bret, stop whining, and enjoy life.
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post #75 of 3869
3/4/02 at 9:56pm
Bret's contract said REASONABLE creative control. This did not include walking off with McMahon's belt to the competition.

Is Vince evil? No. Is Vince a buisnessman first and foremost? YES. He wants what will be best for his company. Things have changed quite a bit from the 80's era of constant house shows and months on the road. The boys get days off EVERY week. They can take leave to heal without worrying, he treats them right for the most part. If Vince were evil, Hogan, Hall, and Nash would not be there right now, because they abandoned him. But he wants what's best for his company and is willing to let bygones be bygones. Heck, he even offered to Brett that he could punch him out at Wrestlemania. Why do you think so many people are working in Connecticut now? Jim Cornette, Sgt Slaugter, Bob Backlund, Al Snow etc. He's taking care of them when they retire. Heck, even though Mick Foley is off the active radar, guess who's still booking his appearances, maintaining his web site etc?

I loved Owen Hart, he was a gentleman and a wonderful performer. He made a mistake, in a stunt he loved doing and was a full supporter of. It's a HORRIFIC tragedy that this man is dead. But you know what? If you could ask Owen today, he'd probably say he'd do it again.
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post #76 of 3869
3/5/02 at 9:24am
Bret loved wrestling and WWF. He seemed to have a very good relationship with Vince McMahon, might have been able to call them friends. Put yourself into his position to see how you would feel when a "friend" has betrayed you and the life you love has changed dramatically. I know I would be as bitter as he is. Add to that everything that has happened with his family. I think why you hear it so much is because that incident has to be brought up whenever Bret is interviewed, just like a former WCW employee will be asked why WCW failed.

It's a shame what happened to Bret in WCW. He got off to a great start with the feud with Flair then they lost focus on him (I can't believe he put over Will Sasso). He was on the rebound when Russo took over leading the new NWO, but unfortunately Goldberg ended his wrestling career.

~T
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post #77 of 3869
3/5/02 at 10:50am
*****Raw 3/04/02*****

This thread will need some organization.

I thought Raw was okay. I was tired so that might have something to do with my opinion.

Is DDP also helping Vince McMahon?

I really liked Booker T and Austin until the run-in. Booker T should be more aggresive like he was last night and in WCW instead of the stylized wrestling he's been doing.

RVD and Storm wasn't as good as the match on Sunday Night Heat.

It looks like WWF listened to my complaints because Hall's, Nash's, and Hogan's personalities are starting to shine.

David Flair looks like he's in good shape. It was wise of him to dye it to brown or back to his original hair color.

~T
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post #78 of 3869
3/5/02 at 2:39pm
Anyone here sick of the Rock being a face? I am really bored with this guy. He needs a heel turn. Every week it's the same act. I laughed at Hall, during the nWo attack, looking through the ambulance and shouting, "Do you smell what you're cooking Rock?!". Classic stuff.
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post #79 of 3869
3/5/02 at 3:58pm
Rock has been overexposed like many other wrestlers in WWF. With the upcoming split, hopefully we will only see guys once a week on television. I don't want to see him turn heel again. He probably has the record for most turns in a year or two year period.

~T
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post #80 of 3869
3/5/02 at 4:21pm
Thi,

Name me all these mysterious heel/face turns. He began the WWF at Survivor Series 96 as a face, turned into a heel in 97 because the fans hated him. He stayed a heel until mid to late 98 where he toyed around being a face, until he turned full heel again at Survivor Series 98. He stayed that way until shortly after WM 15 in 99, and he's been a face ever since then.

By my count he's only turned 4 times over a 5 and a half year career, and basically been a face for the past three years which is unheard in this wrestling day and age. Heck, Austin's turned more times in the past year than Rock. Hardly a record.

I, personally, think it's about time for a turn. Whether or not the fans will let him is another story.
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post #81 of 3869
3/5/02 at 4:44pm
I would say because the Rock has a film out this year (Scorpian King), in which Vince McMahon is the Executive producer, I can't see him turn heel anytime soon. I am of the agreement, he badly needs a heel turn. His character is going nowhere. How many times has he jobbed for Jericho of late? It was to Rock's advantage, that McMahon signed the nWo. At least they were someone to feud with him. Rock is losing popularity. Did you hear Hogan outchant him at Raw and this is a guy 20 years older than him.
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post #82 of 3869
3/5/02 at 5:05pm
I got a question for everybody, who do you think will win the Hogan/Rock match? First of all, it will probably stink. Hogan is far too old, far too slow, and has a worse moveset then Nash. Although, he may have been able to actually wrestle a decent match in Japan around 84, that was 18 years ago. Rock will do his best to carry him to a watchable one, but don't expect a five star classic.

Anywho, I can't see Hogan losing, basically because he was pricey to get and well... freakin' Hulk Hogan. But on the other hand, Rocky is definitely going to get a loser stigma if he doesn't win this year. Three Wrestlemania main events, three loses. Can't imagine a fourth for the guy. You can say whatever you want about the Rock. Love him or hate him, he has absolutely no problem jobbing to anyone and everyone. He's the consumate company man, which I guess, would be the exact antithesis to a Hogan or a Nash.
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post #83 of 3869
3/5/02 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Rock will do his best to carry him to a watchable one, but don't expect a five star classic.
Uh, Rock has never been able to carry anyone to a good match. The most he can do is not drag a match down. Of course, that's more than some wrestlers can do. I wouldn't expect much out of the Rock/Hogan match, but that's because neither of their styles at any age were conducive to making the opponent look better than they are.
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post #84 of 3869
3/5/02 at 7:13pm
Marvin,

After thinking about it for a while, you're right. For the life of me, I can't think of a match he actually carried to make it an all-time classic. But that being said, the sheer volume of good to great matches that he has been involved in lead me to believe that, although he's no Flair, he is quite a competent, and at times, great worker in the ring.

He has had amazing matches with Angle, Austin, Jericho, HHH, Foley, etc. Now, I know, anybody could have a great match with those guys, but the thing is, since Rocky has been in the main event for the past 3 years, he hasn't had the opportunities to wrestle the likes of lesser quality workers for a half hour on ppvs. Well, Undertaker, but I don't think Benoit could get a good one out of him.

His skills have evolved a lot from when he was wrestling the likes of a Sultan or Shamrock, and would like to see how he could fair in a 20 minute match against a Kane or Rhyno. At any rate, I hope Rock proves us wrong at Wrestlemania and makes Hogan/Warrior look like Big Show/Bossman.

I'm not holding my breath though.
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post #85 of 3869
3/5/02 at 9:32pm
Well, I give Rock credit for trying some things, like the Sharpshooter, and he used to throw in a dragonscrew legwhip (I think that's the name). But some of the stuff he does is just so bad. Everytime he takes a chairshot his hand comes up about a minute before the chair hits. And that belly-to-belly suplex thing he does...yikes.
But, on the other hand, he does know how to get a crowd into the match, and he can have good matches with good wrestlers. That Ironman match he had with Triple H a year or so ago really impressed the hell out of me, because it wasn't a stallathon.
And don't even get me started on the flop he does for the Stunner!
But, I'll take Rock anyday over Big Boss Man, Rikishi, Undertaker, Big Slow, Billy Gunn, Kevin Nash or Scotty 2 Hotty. And that's just people who are still on the roster that I can think of off the top of my head.
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post #86 of 3869
3/6/02 at 10:07am
Quote:
Name me all these mysterious heel/face turns. He began the WWF at Survivor Series 96 as a face, turned into a heel in 97 because the fans hated him. He stayed a heel until mid to late 98 where he toyed around being a face, until he turned full heel again at Survivor Series 98. He stayed that way until shortly after WM 15 in 99, and he's been a face ever since then.


So that would be 4 turns in about a 2 year period. And what I said about Rock holding the record was just an exaggeration, but it looks like it could be true.

I think Hogan and Rock will surprise a lot of people and could end up being the best match at Wrestlemania. I've never seen Hogan wrestle in Japan, but he has had some great matches in WWF and WCW. I rewatched Slamboree 2000 last night (boy do I miss WCW), and Hogan had a good match with Kidman. He did things such as taking a Frankensteiner from Kidman and powerbombing Bischoff through a table, things you guys probably have never seen him do unless you saw that match. During the match, Scott Hudson mentioned the criticism Hogan has received from wrestling fans and how Hogan really turned up his intensity for the match. As long as Hogan is wrestling good oppponents, I think you can expect more than a decent match. I really don't know who will win in this match, it could go to either man.

There are some things that bother me about The Rock. His sharpshooter and dragon screw legwhips are the ugliest I've ever seen anyone perform. I hate how he seems invincible sometimes, like being able to sustain a finishing submission move much, much longer than any other wrestler. However, I like the drama and entertainment that he brings to his matches.

~T
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post #87 of 3869
3/7/02 at 3:31pm
Thread Starter 
Just a reminder: Smackdown is live tonight!
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post #88 of 3869
3/7/02 at 5:53pm
Ugh! I think I'm going to vomit! Rock is cutting another one of his ridiculous, over the top promos. I've gotten to the point where I can't even stand to hear his voice. Other than that, he's okay. Now Flair, I could listen to him all night. He can talk with the best of them.

As for Rock teasing a match tonight, that's all it is, a tease. I used to hate it when WCW did this and didn't deliver. Now the WWF is doing it. They better pay off.
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post #89 of 3869
3/7/02 at 9:27pm
Thread Starter 
After the last couple of weeks, I was expecting tonight to be another let-down. But, I really enjoyed Smackdown this week! Great promos. Great mic work. And some decent (but not great) matches.

Highlights:
  • Tajiri kickin' ass! (too bad it was loused up by the WWF trying to build another match for X8 (Edge/Booker T)
  • Flair on a rampage! (great mic work as always and the intensity was fantastic)
  • The Rock's return. Yep, I'm still a big fan of The Rock (unlike others here) and get a kick out his promos every time he's on the mic. He did some good injury selling, while still managing to whoop ass. I can't wait for the Hulk/Rock match!
  • Triple H 'splitting' up the vette.
  • Al Snow in a match - nice, but short.
  • The Undertaker was somewhat entertaining this ep.

Lowlights:
  • Angle's weak Angle slam on Kane
  • Booker T
  • As usual, relatively pointless women's match (though nice to look at )
  • Stephanie's grating voice
  • Booker T

A good two hours overall. Still the same ol', but X8 should be good.

Speaking of X8...

Where's all the special matches? I'm dyin' to see a cage match, street fight, two out of three falls, ladder match, not to mention a TLC III match! So far, everything's just straight-forward wrastlin' ('cept for whatever the Hardcore match'll be). C'mon, let's mix it up a little here!

mike.
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post #90 of 3869
3/7/02 at 10:38pm
How about

The Big Lazy flipping back over the ropes while Rock was still 3 feet away from him, and selling (badly) like it actually connected

Scott Hall's pathetic attempt at a match. I've seen backyard wrestlers with more style and charisma than he showed tonight

Hogan, well, at least he did SOMETHING.

When they brought the WCW guys into the WWF, I saw once again why I never watched their show. 90% of them really, really were awful. Vince has kept the cream, dumped the excess baggage, and hopefully whenever he forms WWF^2 or whatever, he'll bring in some guys from ECW like Kid Kash, or maybe even Mike Modest. I'm hoping he sees the value in a cruiserweight SHOW, where skill and athletisism is right up there with mic time. There's a bunch of them that COUlD talk if given the chance
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