The WWE™ - Page 2

Powerbomb isn't a difficult move, nor are many other wrestling moves. Instead of Hogan lacking the skill to perform moves, he just doesn't do them; the same applies for other wrestlers. I hated Hogan when he was in the WWF, but I've learned to appreciate him more.



Ric Flair.

~T

Well I for one am glad to have Hogan back in the WWF. Wrestling is not about wrestling anymore guys (not sure how I feel about that), its about story and performance, and Hogan is the man!

Since this is a general WWF discussion I thought I'd mention the one thing that drives me nuts about WWF right now

WHAT?

I hate that. It annoys me to no end that nobody can say two words without the croud chanting WHAT. Couldn't SC have come up with something better than that, IT SUCKS!

Just so everyone knows, Kurt Angle is a wrestling SUPER GOD!

Until my next post,
Marshall

That's funny, I think its hilarous, and I usually can't stand catch phrases. It was starting to get on my nerves a bit (and still does) when they do it to everyone, but as long as its Austin, Angle or Vince I don't mind too much. The funniest thing about it? Angle's reactions to the fans doing it to do him. And how funny is it, by the way, when the fans started chanting "YOU SUCK!" "WHAT?" in time to Angle's music?
Angle is hilarious. I can't believe how good he is sometimes.
Most entertaining wrestlers (today):

Triple H
Kurt Angle
Steve Austin
Undertaker (I can't believe I'm saying that, but this angle with Flair is great!)

On another note, during Smackdown! last night they ran a local commercial saying that RAW is coming to Phoenix April 8th! Wooo! I just moved here six months ago from South Dakota, so I can't wait to see the WWF again. Last time I saw them was three years ago, and I had to drive 200 miles to do it. This time its about a 20 minute drive!

Okay, let me jump in here. First off, Goldberg and Stone Cold are really nothing alike. Goldberg outwieghs Austin by 35-40 pounds. He's also 2 inches taller. They don't look alike other than having a shaved head. And before you say WCW had Goldberg shave his head to make him Austin-like, Goldberg was shaving his head towards his last year in the NFL, long before Stone Cold made it big. As for Style, their styles are nothing alike. Goldberg is a power wrestler. And when allowed to, he's very talented. The man is lightning quick and very athletic. And brutally strong. Stone Cold is none of those things. He's a brawler. They've both made it big and there's no need to constantly compare the two.

As for WCW, how come when they do something, it's gardbage, yet when the WWF does it, it's fantastic. Seems to me that lately the WWF is nothing but a rehash machine. Try something new and quit ripping off WCW. The night the NOW beat up Rock didn't even look like a Raw. It looked like a WCW Nitro.

Terrel, really, come on. Goldberg is pure marketing, just like Hulk Hogan. At least Hogan can have a decent interview every now and then, but Goldberg was only beaten in the crappy interview race by a select few like Scott Steiner. He's physically talented, but not talented wrestling wise. He does have charisma, as long as he doesn't open his mouth. The "undefeated" bad-ass who did little talking but much fighting was a great gimmick for him.
Steve Austin is a brawler, eh? You either have a short memory or you simply don't know that Austin is a talented technical wrestler. Not on par with Benoit or Angle, but in the same ballpark. The CHARACTER of Stone Cold is a brawler, yes, but he still can show signs when the situation calls for it. Remember when he "out-wrestled" Triple H at No Mercy last year? Or when he counter-wrestled Angle (of course I know he couldn't do that in real life, but work with me here.) Do you not know that his character when he first came into the WWF was called "The Ringmaster," and it was for a reason? Granted it was a bad gimmick, but the point still stands. And in his days in WCW as "Stunning" Steve Austin he was almost exclusively a technical wrestler? I showed my cousing a tape of Austin from WCW with the long hair and the completely different style, and he didn't recognize him until I told him who it was.
Kind of sounds like you don't know quite as much history as you should.

Marvin hit the nail on the head.

Marvin please, you're the one that obviously doesn't know much WCW history if that's all you think about Goldberg. Goldberg put on some hella matches with Steiner, Sting, DDP, and Hugh Morrus, when he was allowed to. The problem the last year in WCW was they horribly misused Goldberg and continued to throw him into 2 minutes squash matches, and gave him the worst heel turn that almost ruined him. But then WCW misused most of it's wrestlers. And Goldberg put out some good promos in his last two years in WCW, especially with Brett Hart. Just because he doesn't belt out those silly a** promos that the Rock does doesn't mean he's horrible either. Everytime Rock opens his mouth I want to puke. Other than that, I like Rock. But his promos have gotten sickening.

As for wrestling, since when has Stone Cold done anything other than punch, kick, stunner. I even saw the man throw 8 punches in a row one night. As for marketing, any wrestler that gets to superstar status gets their partly through marketing. Goldberg got there with the least marketing of anybody. How can you say someone who had no gimmick, and used his own name got over on marketing. BS. I assume you're gonna tell me that you could put anyone in that winning streak and they'd be a superstar. The man got over because he had the look, charisma, the athleticism, the power, and the rage that fans loved when he got in the ring. Tell me one wrestler his size that could do a standing backflip and simultaneously catch a 330 pound Hugh Morrus coming off the top rope and powerslam him? Tell me one guy his size that could leapfrog Sting and in one motion turn and spear him out of his shoes? Tell me one guy who could scoop slam and jackhammer a 500+ pound Paul Wight in the same match? Tell me one guy that can grap a 275 pound Scott Steiner by the thigh and neck and press him 5 times over his head with pure arm strength? Tell me how many guys that have his size and mass are as athletic and as quick as he is? The Answer? Nobody Marvin.

This is Pro Wrestling Marvin, not amateur wrestling. Hardly anyone in the WWF does any mat wrestling. It's all brawling, and punch this and kick that. Why? Because the vasy majority of people don't give a crap about technical wrestling or mat wrestling. They want drama and brawling between big guys, and that's what the WWF and Goldberg give them. But make no mistake, if Goldberg wrestles a technical match, nobody would've even cared. They want to see him kick a**, and he does that better than anyone.

C'mon Marvin! Admit it. You wanna see this man wreak some more havoc.

Austin is a great technical wrestler. Ever since he returned from his recent injury, he has been more of a technical wrestler like he was during his WCW days. Terrell, in the past year he's demonstrated that he isn't a brawler like you think he is against guys like Benoit, Angle, and just recently Mr. Perfect.

Goldberg is great. He brings power, athleticism and intensity to the ring unlike anyone I have ever seen. The man is just plain exciting to watch. You didn't see much from Goldberg on regular television because they were mainly squash matches, but on PPV he was in some good and great matches. He and DDP at Halloween Havoc had one of the best matches of that year. He and Steiner at Fall Brawl had one of the best matches of that year. He demonstrated that he can perform many moves (spectacular ones) against Saturn at, I think, Spring Stampede. His promo with Bret Hart on a Thunder was one of the best of that year.

~T

Did I anywhere in my comments mention the Rock? No, I sure didn't. I'm not going to defend the Rock at all. He used to be funny, but the act has gotten old, and everytime he ducks out of the way and pretends to put his arm around the guy as they jump over him...uh, I mean "belly-to-belly suplexes" him I want to cry, especially when he does it to someone like Angle. But hey, what do I know, many of the fans love him, so good for him.

Never said Goldberg wasn't a great athlete, but calling him a wrestler is like calling Hulk Hogan an actor. It doesn't work. You liked Goldberg's interviews, eh? Where he looks at the camera and screams at the top of his lungs? Ok, but sounds vaguely familiar to Hulk Hogan to me. And of course the guy can have a decent interview once in a blue moon. The writers got lucky that night.

Oh, and there was a guy who was as physically gifted as him. Scott Steiner before he blew up. Some of the crap he used to do in the late 80's early 90's with his brother Rick was just absolutely amazing. Too bad now he's a big immobile hunk of meat.

And you know why that heel turn didn't work? There were two parties at blame; WCW and Goldberg. He didn't have the versatility to do anything with the part. Hell, even Hogan managed that! And so did Austin.

Hey, if you don't want to admit that Austin has wrestling ability and is an athlete, go ahead, but your opinions don't mean much to me when you say things like Apparently my whole statement about wrestling Triple H and Angle last year went in one ear and out the other.

Hey, I'm not saying Austin is bad. On the contrary. But let's face it, the WWF is a brawler's league. The majority of the wrestling fan's done care. Austin is good when he's in with a good opponent, as are most wrestlers. Yes, Austin had some wrestling talent. But nobody wants to see Goldberg wrestle a technical match, even though he has that ability. I know I don't.

Certainly, Goldberg is not the greatest on promos, but in his last two years, he gave promos as good as HHH, and I don't hear people complaining about him. Just because you don't cut over the top promos doesn't mean you're bad. Goldberg is about average on promos.

As for Goldberg's wrestling ability, you aren't born a great wrestler, you're made one. And Goldberg has the athletic ability to be one if he wanted. As for the marketing, Goldberg got over on less marketing than a lot of the big stars in WWF. Again, he used his own name and basically had no gimmick, ala The Rock or Stone Cold, not that there's anything wrong with that. Goldberg was practically over from the end of his very first match. He skyrocketed to the top for all the reasons Thi and I listed. And very little of that had to do with marketing. Certainly a big winning streak helped, but you can't just give anyone in wrestling a huge winning streak and make them into huge stars. That used to be an argument for people that disliked Goldberg.

You've got to have the size, the physique, the charisma, and the athleticism to become a huge star. Rock, Austin, Goldberg, Hogan, HHH, and a number of others have it. The vast majority don't.

Here's a clear statement that shows that you obviously haven't seen a lot of Goldberg. I gave you an example of a great promo he cut. And what do you do, say it was luck. I could give you a number of examples of where he gave good promos, but the man doesn't need a silly a** promo to get over. He was over from day one without speaking a word, and with no marketing. I also gave you at least 4 examples of great matches that Goldberg put on, when he was allowed to wrestle more than 2 minutes. You cleverly ignored that. As for Austin, If you notice in my post above where I stated;


But again, wrestlers aren't born, they're made. But nobody wants to see Goldberg wrestle. They want to see him fight. As for Steiner, he was a hell of an athlete. But he couldn't scoop slam and jackhammer Paul Wight, because he was never as strong as Goldberg. But he was a helluva athlete, and a great tagteam wrestler. As for Austin being a great athlete, well, let's put it this way. He's a good wrestler, but he's nowhere near the athlete that Goldberg is, and never was. He's more experienced than Goldberg and is a better wrestler now. But that's where the line ends.

Marvin, you don't become a megastar as fast and as big as Goldberg did without some talent. I know, at least from your tone, that you dislike him and don't want to give him any credit. But the man at one time was the biggest star in wrestling, and was always one of the top 3 with Austin and Rock. So give the man a little credit. I've given Austin some credit.

Another thing, calm down. You seem like you're ready to blow your top.

Mike, I believe the Austin match in question was against Chris Benoit when he gave him about 12 German suplexes in a row. That match was amazing on both an entertainment and technical level, really really great on both men's parts. If anything, Angle was copying that

Mind you, I LOVE Kurt Angle, I have since he originally hit the ring. The man took his world-class skill at amature wrestling and moved it into this new arena. The big thing is that he can actually act. You put him on the mic and he holds his own with the best guys in the buis (of which he is one), and has been that way from the get-go.

I just wish Mr. Perfect would wrestle on Smackdown, I always loved that character.

Now Angle is a hell of a wrestler. I really like Angle. I even like Austin. Rock is getting old, well those over the top promos are anyway.

As for that match Jeff, it was Benoit that was utterly amazing. I though Benoit made Austin look better than he was. Benoit is great too. His only problem is he has not a speck of charisma. If he had charisma he'd be huge.

Agreed, Benoit is the exact opposite. Someone with HUGE talent, but no charisma or mic skills. Sometimes the fans do it right, and put someone over because they're that damn good.

To answer some questions, as Jim Ross noted on the WWF website in his Ross Report, Nidia is getting ready for her first match in OVW, I believe.

As for Hayabusa, last I heard he is in re-hab. I don't believe he has any feeling in his lower half (neck down). That guy is just incredible and really, a loss to the Japanese wrestling scene. I don't get to watch wrestling from Japan as often as I would like, but I have/had a tape of him and he is something to see. Picture Sabu, with a mask.

Also, as was reported on 1wrestling.com, Billy & Chuck vs. APA has been pulled from WM X-18.

Also, I believe it was Kurt Angle that gave Austin the 12 suplexes. The match was one of the best matches I have ever seen. This was during the Austin (Alliance) time and when the announcers were claiming that Austin could not beat Angle.

Some of the best Raw matches ever in my opinion... just to add something new....

Bret Hart vs 1-2-3 Kid (X-Pac) (WWF Championship)
Austin/HHH vs. Benoit/Jericho (WWF Tag Team Championship)
Triple H vs Taka Michinoku (WWF Championship)
Jericho vs Triple H (WWF Championship where Jericho won and then was overturned).

Also want to mention that I feel Kane is very talented and has come a long way since Issac Jankem and "The New" Diesel. One of his best matches was against Steve Austin, (No Way Out, 1999 I believe) where he won the WWF title, then later lost it on Raw the next night.

Also, be on the lookout for a split in the company.... should give others some time to shine.. and maybe, just maybe, give the lightweights some decent air time. If Paul Heyman is given the chance to show what he can really do, his booking is some of the best. Just take a look at what he did for ECW. Misterio vs. Juvi, Eddy Guerrero vs. Dean Melenko just to name a couple.

Long live Brakkus... hee hee.... now that was something else.

I hope you guys realize this stuff is just a constant soap opera with a great deal of involvement of physical ability. No one wins the Title per se. Its what works for ratings and to make a great story keep going week to week. Did anyone ever see how much is involved to make just one match go. I've seen one of Pat Patterson's playbooks for one match and its as big a TV guide. Most of these guys are good friends, that have to be. They spend more time with each other than their own families.

Yes, Kurt gave Austin a crapload of multiple german suplexes in a match one time during a PPV, but Benoit did it first when he gave Austin 10 or more suplexes during a match on Smackdown before the whole Alliance angle. It was one of the best Smackdown's ever.



I just love people who think wrestling fans don't know this.

Nah, I'm not ready to blow my top, but when my friends and I talk about wrestling, we always act over the top. Seems to blend with how over the top wrestling is.
You're right, I detest Goldberg, and I think he's a joke. I guess it comes from some of the comments he's made about wrestling and the WWF, which seems hypocritical to me. On the one hand he'll criticize the WWF product as being too adult, but the WCW product he was on wasn't exactly kiddie-fare, especially towards the end. Oh well, to each his own I guess.

Gee, thanks for the revelation there guy. I don't know too many people who watch wrestling who are over the age of ten who don't realize that. Some people just kill me.

By the way, did anyone watch Tough Enough 2? Did you see that guy who was talking crap about Taz, and then he's reaction when Taz showed up at the end and got in his face? That was hilarious!

That pretty much explains it Marvin. No need for any further debate. Nothing I say will matter. So Goldberg has no interest in the WWF, and doesn't respect it. Neither does Sting. Who can respect a wrestling promotion that has skits depicting sex with old women, oral sex, grown men kissing the naked butt of the owner, etc.



You can't be serious.

It was great when Benoit did one German suplex after another, I didn't know when he would stop. I enjoyed it so much that I started laughing.

Goldberg is good on the mic. His style is different, and I admit it took me a while to warm up to it. His hatred for WWF is nonsense: WWF right now has been toned down to what WCW used to be, and he wants to be a hero to children but he crushes his opponents and supposedly acts violent in public.

How about the news of Bret Hart being offered to appear at Wrestlemania?

~T

What?

Yeah, you're right, WCW never did anything like that. They never paraded women down to the ring in next to nothing and have little "matches" where they'd tear each other's clothes off, or have someone get run over by a Hummer, or people getting beaten down with lead pipes. Come on, I'm not defending the WWF's morality, but today it is like watching Sesame Street compared to what it was like three years ago. Here's my favorite quote by Goldberg: Funny, he didn't seem to have a problem being in an angle with Scott Steiner where he jack-hammered Midajah through a table and Steiner put his "wife" (I'm not sure if she was his wife or just an actress) in the Steiner recliner. I see, violence against women is okay but bra and panty matches aren't. Ok, I get it.

Uh, can you quote me examples of Goldberg being violent in public? No Thi, don't think you can because he hasn't. The only incident was him yelling at HHH for making derogatory comments about him in an interview, and even then it was just yelling. Something he admits he was wrong in. Let's don't make stuff up about the guy. This man has given more to charity than anyone. He flew all the way to Hollywood on his dime to see a young boy on The Maury Show, who lost his arm, and he wanted to meet Goldberg. He spent a whole day with a young child and gave he and his family tickets to the next Nitro, and flew them over to Nitro, again on his on dime. This was the Make A Wish Foundation charity. He constantly visits childrens hospitals, and sign autographs, own his own time. He received the Jewish Star for his overwhelming work in charites in Israel. That is a very difficult award to get. I'd call that a hero to young children. They talked about all of this on Nitro and Thunder numerous times.

As for the WWF being toned down recently, I wholeheartedly agree with that statement Thi. But that doesn't take away the ridiculous stuff they did all in the name of the almighty dollar. And just recently, twice we saw Vince bare his his for grown men to kiss. Why? Because of sagging ratings. And Goldberg never stated he hated the WWF. Only that he doesn't respect a lot of the stuff they did. Sting said the same thing when he decided to retire, yet he never gets criticized.



Marvin, please show me you can do better than that. You're honestly comparing that to those things I mentioned. Nobody cares about women in skimpy outfits or violence. This is wrestling, which is a sport these women have particiapted in. It's the over the line garbage that you yourself know that the WWF has done repeatedly. Sickening stuff. Stuff that WCW never did because Time Warner wouldn't let them.



Again you're comparing this with Mark Henry having sex with 70+ year old woman. Receiving oral sex. Grown men kissing Vince's bare butt. Need I go on? And this statement purely goes to show that you obviously don't know much about Goldberg or ever watched WCW much. That was not his girlfriend. That was a stunt woman, otherwise an actress hired to play his girlfriend. He doesn't even have a wife. And you didn't know that. Why am I even arguing with you. You detest him, like I care. Go on detesting him. Boy, why do I even bother. I've only watched wrestling once in the last month, it's been so bad.

Whatever Terrel.

Since we're talking about the WWF here and not WCW, does anyone even care right now about the NWO? I don't know, I guess the attack on the Rock should have ended before the truck ramming the ambulance thing. Their confrontation in the ring was awesome, and some of the best mic work I've seen from either of them. Now I'm having a hard time caring.

Austin/Hall looks a little more interesting, and Hall, who is the most innately talented of the three when he's not in self-destructive mode, has a better chance of putting together a good match with Austin than Hogan does with Rock. I wonder why Nash doesn't have a match yet. Are they worried they might have to get rid of Hall suddenly and want a backup plan?

Triple H/Chris Jericho should at least be an excellent wrestling match, even if they aren't doing that great of a job building Jericho up. He comes across as needing too much help, and I think a heel is more effective when the fans think there is a chance he can beat someone on his own.

I wonder what will happen to the tag titles. Thank God they ditched the Chuck/Billy vs APA thing. APA are entertaining enough in small doses, but tag title match? Against Chuck and Billy? I really wish they'd get rid of those two. Billy Gunn has done nothing but irritate me ever since the New Age Outlaws broke up the first time. At least when he shows up I know I can have a cigarette break.

Angle vs. Kane. Poor Angle, he's going to have a hard time pulling a good match out of Kane.

Flair vs. Undertaker. Undertaker has really stepped it up in interviews lately, building this feud well, but in the ring, I just don't see either of them being able to do much.

Hopefully Wrestlemania will be able to somewhat live up to last year's incredble show (one of the five best PPVs I've ever seen) but it won't be easy.

I watched the NWO when they came back for one or two episodes. Then I left. It looked like a complete rehash of the WCW angle. What the WWF needs is some new blood and some creative writing. I mean, this is wrestling, and they rarely have any wrestling on the show. That night I think they had a total of 18 minutes of wrestling on a two hour show. Pitiful. The only thing the NWO adds is some variety. The problem is that variety comes in the flavor of a 50+ year old man who looks it. And Nash, a guy who wrestles like a 50 year old. Hall is the best of the three, but he's only compelling with Nash as a team.

The NWO angle has been blead to death. I'd have preferred to see them come back as a faction, but not the NWO. That angle has been beaten to death. Also Jericho, Angle, and some others deserve some main event time. Some new angles need to be created. Surprise us and quit grasping for ratings straws is my suggestion for McMahon. And whatever they do, get that terrible, irritating Stephanie off the TV.

Well, the only thing I'll say in defense of the NWO angle right now, is I was really worried that they'd come in and do what they did in WCW...take over the whole show. At least they haven't done that. They are targeting 2 guys right now, and haven't started interfering in every match. I thought that was what would happen, because Vince said he was going to destroy the WWF. The only way the NWO can do that now is if they bore the audience to death.
Yeah, I think the electricity of Hogan vs. Rock is going to sputter once they both have to get in the ring and wrestle. Maybe Hogan will pull out some of those wrestling skills that I know he has, but never uses. Saw a tape of him from Japan years ago, I think it was between when he left WWF and went to WCW, and he can actually wrestle. He's no Kurt Angle, but he's also no Viscera, if you know what I mean.
I'm kind of interested to see where on the card they place Triple H vs. Y2J. You'd think it would be last match of the night since it is for the WWF Title, but they've been known to move the title match down for what they consider a bigger non-title match. I hope not, as Jericho deserves a little main event spotlight in a one-on-one match.