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Is the a market still for "Greed" or "The Big Parade", et al?

post #1 of 27
1/27/12 at 8:07pm
Thread Starter 

Blame re-watching When the Lion Roars for putting this bee in my bonnet.

 

I'm really quite surprised that given how long DVD has been around, we still have yet to see a DVD release for classic silent movies like "Greed", "The Big Parade" and many others. I understand that the Warner Archive is attempting to fill that hole (especially with the Lon Chaney silents, for example), but really... still nothing after all this time?

 

I guess I'm not just asking where these classic silents are, but if the market is still present for them, especially "Greed", though the movie may be more notorious than popular at this point.

 

So, what's the buzz on this? Frankly, I think we could use an all purpose silent movie thread to keep track on what is out from whom and what is still missing. All I can say so far is thank goodness for Kino and the Warner Archive or we'd have nothing aside from the Chaplins and the Keatons out there.

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post #2 of 27
1/27/12 at 8:27pm
I, too, am surprise that Greed and The Big Parade, as well as The Crowd and The Wind, have not made it to DVD. With Kino's frequent silent releases, as well as the popularity of the Chaplin films (now owned by Criterion), plus, the recent (as of Tuesday) release of Wings, the FIRST Academy Award winner for Best Picture, on DVD, silent films remain popular favorites for film fanatics and wondrous time pieces for new audiences. I still await for these titles to surface, wondering if it's damaged film elements, or a long process of putting these titles off that we've reached an era where WB wonders if a pressed release of these films would sell, that has kept the films off of the market for so long. Time will tell-- hopefully, before I, currently 26, have grandchildren or reside in a seaside rest home.
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post #3 of 27
1/27/12 at 8:36pm
Thread Starter 

Same here, in a sense. I'm not yet 35 but there is so much of movie history I have yet to see (still not seen anything by Griffin *hangs head in shame*) and more than anything, I want to build a library of as much as I can in good quality as possible so years down the line, I can pass down this love of the art form I have.

 

Thank you for reminding me about The Wind, I'm sure there are loads of others out there. Out of curiosity, I see a lot of the Harold Lloyd box sets released years ago are going out of print, at least from Amazon. Is there a planned reissue or something coming, because I sure would hate to think I've missed out on Safety Last or other classics.

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post #4 of 27
1/27/12 at 8:46pm
I'm surprised we do as well as we do for catalogue titles, given that the Studios regard such releases as strictly a niche market. Most of the Studios would be happiest sticking to releasing their latest product, or tried and trusted franchises or stars (I'm looking at you, Paramount).
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post #5 of 27
1/27/12 at 8:53pm
Thread Starter 

We may actually have caught a break with Universal celebrating their 100th anniversary. One of their silents, Traffic in Souls, from 1913 is on their list of movies due for release this year. Understandably I'm NOT expecting a blu-ray, restored to perfection copy, but to see at least that glimmer from the vaults of a studio is quite nice.

 

As for Paramount... yeah, you'd think with their 100th, we'd be getting more, but I got a gut feeling we should count ourselves lucky we got Wings.

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post #6 of 27
1/27/12 at 9:29pm
I think the very high prestige silents like Greed are still in limbo waiting for a possible retail opening. Hopefully, success from Wings might lead to a few AAA silents being released by other studios, but they still seem to be dominantly released by boutique labels like Criterion or Flicker Alley. Even the WAC just releases a handful each year, though it will likely increase in the future. However, Wings is the first silent film I recall in recent memory getting shelf space at Wal-Mart and its ilk so hopefully it leads to more people getting interested in movies of the era.

DVD-only releases by Warner Bros are pretty much freak releases like last year's Tracy/Hepburn set or the upcoming Vol 2 Charlie Chan set (could be blu, but I seriously doubt it). A DVD-only is dimly possible due to their potentially niche appeal as silents, but its really Blu-ray or MOD at this stage.

The market seems to be improving a bit on deep catalog home video, so there's still hope.
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post #7 of 27
1/27/12 at 10:02pm
Why has Warner delayed The Big Parade for almost a decade since initially confirming a remaster?

They can at least license out to Kino, Criterion, or Flicker Alley if they can't make the costs work for them.
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post #8 of 27
1/27/12 at 10:16pm
Thread Starter 

First I've heard about a remaster for The Big Parade, especially given what a unique piece of movie history it is, doing anti-war before All Quiet on the Western Front would come along a few years down the line. Come to think of it, kind of surprised we have not seen a MOD release for John Gilbert for that matter, given what a huge silent star he was back in the day.

 

As for Greed, I want to believe, given its reputation, that a commercial sale is still possible. I know most of the original movie is long since lost to time but whatever remains should be preserved and presented in the best possible format.

 

Like was said, with Wings getting the big release and All Quiet on the Western Front getting high profile as well (granted, it is not a silent, but a silent cut does exist and is being included in this reissue), you would hope interest in these classics will be revived. I sure hope so as to have the opportunity to enrich my collection thrills me.

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post #9 of 27
1/28/12 at 5:36am

If Wings sells well, I wouldn't be surprised if Warners does a trumpeted release of The Big Parade if the materials are in good shape. I think they could have done a separate Blu of Ben-Hur instead of releasing it SD in the big box set of the 1959 version if they had not already released it years ago in the last Ben-Hur DVD box.

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post #10 of 27
1/28/12 at 9:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH. View Post

If Wings sells well, I wouldn't be surprised if Warners does a trumpeted release of The Big Parade if the materials are in good shape. I think they could have done a separate Blu of Ben-Hur instead of releasing it SD in the big box set of the 1959 version if they had not already released it years ago in the last Ben-Hur DVD box.



Agreed, although I am happy to get the silent Ben-Hur at all. Maybe WHV will consider doing a reissue of that later. Also happy to get the silent version of The Ten Commandments on that set. Truthfully, there are more silents out there and I think there is, pardon the expression, a market out there that is just not being heard by the studios. Hopefully Wings will change that, especially given places like Amazon have sold through their allotment and won't be shipping again for another two to three weeks. Good sign, I'd say.

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post #11 of 27
1/28/12 at 2:12pm

A very good sign. Glad to hear sales have been better than anticipated (even if the anticipation was low). Can only be good news.

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post #12 of 27
1/28/12 at 11:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH. View Post

A very good sign. Glad to hear sales have been better than anticipated (even if the anticipation was low). Can only be good news.



Well, here's a good question - are sales of Wings strong because of the fan base that has been waiting so long or are they strong because it IS the first Oscar winner and Oscar season just got going, so that is helping to drive demand?

 

Probably both, but either way you slice it, it is encouraging for the future and similar releases. I'd like to think if The Artist wins Best Picture, we may see a revival of interest in silents in the mainstream as well.

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post #13 of 27
1/29/12 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPeriolat View Post



Agreed, although I am happy to get the silent Ben-Hur at all. Maybe WHV will consider doing a reissue of that later. Also happy to get the silent version of The Ten Commandments on that set. Truthfully, there are more silents out there and I think there is, pardon the expression, a market out there that is just not being heard by the studios. Hopefully Wings will change that, especially given places like Amazon have sold through their allotment and won't be shipping again for another two to three weeks. Good sign, I'd say.


Best Buy is also showing it as back ordered too.  And like Amazon it is the Standard DVD, while both have copies of the Blu-ray available to ship now.  Are we sure that the DVD was delivered on it's release date of 1/24 or was it delayed and no copies have been shipped.  Has anyone received the DVD yet?

 

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post #14 of 27
1/29/12 at 1:01pm
I grabbed the DVD at a Best Buy. They had a few of the Blu-ray in the new release section but only had one dvd back in the catalog section. I think perhaps Paramount overestimated the ratio of Blu to DVD buyers for this title, since the blu is still available on amazon. Regardless, it is a great release that is long (long) overdue and it appears to be a very successful one. With Oscar season on and The Artist getting attention as only the second possible silent oscar winner and other nominee Hugo being about film preservation they could not have released this at a more opportune time. I hope other studios are paying attention and will be willing to take some risks on their silent titles.
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post #15 of 27
1/29/12 at 1:42pm
Kino, Image, Flicker Alley and countless other studios have released far less known titles that THE BIG PARADE, GREED and THE WIND so Warner has no excuses. They can talk film elements, sales and anything else until the moon comes home but I'm not going to buy it. I'm a large supporter of Warner and I'd say I was probably their biggest supporter on countless forums but there's simply no excuse for these titles not to have been released five years ago.
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post #16 of 27
1/29/12 at 2:54pm
Everybody, please remember that most silents don't have music tracks. Creating one requires a composer, an orchestrator, the hiring of musicians and a studio (and recording engineers), rehearsals and then recording. All of this costs a great deal of money, which may not always be recouped by even a normal DVD release. Take an even strain.

Mike S.
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post #17 of 27
1/29/12 at 3:22pm
I'm fairly certain both GREED and THE BIG PARADE have tracks unless someone can tell me I'm wrong. If money has to be spent it looks like GREED, THE WIND, THE CROWD and THE BIG PARADE would be worth spending it on and certainly more than titles like DESERT NIGHTS, CAPTAIN SALVATION, EXIT SMILING, THE PAGAN or the handful of William Haines titles that have been released.

While someone such as myself is interested in Haines and DESERT NIGHTS, there's no question that legendary titles are going to appeal to a lot more people. Again, if these small guys can release stellar titles then there's no reason Warner couldn't have done something by now.
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post #18 of 27
1/29/12 at 3:45pm
Yes!!! Bring on more silents!! I'm eagerly awaiting GREED, THE BIG PARADE, NAPOLEON (with the Carl Davis score), THE CROWD, THE STUDENT PRINCE IN OLD HEIDELBERG and THE WIND, among so many others*. Plus the Kevin Brownlow series A CELEBRATION OF THE AMERICAN SILENT FILM. I'm guessing that STUDENT PRINCE will turn up on Warner Archive, but who knows if we'll ever see the others. I'm hanging onto my VHS copies until I learn otherwise.

* The "so many others" would include CIVILIZATION, THE COVERED WAGON, FOUR HORSEMEN ..., and SADIE THOMPSON. Sigh ...
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post #19 of 27
1/30/12 at 3:38pm

I want every film mentioned. Do a massive set like Fox did with the Murnau/Borzage films.

 

the 2hour or so Greed had a release on VHS with some type of soundtrack, and the extended version with all the still pictures played on TCM with some type of soundtrack, so I have no problem with those two versions coming out in a set looking as good as it can. I haven't seen the extended version, but that 2 hour one was one of the best films I've seen. I'd love to replace my copy of a copy of the VHS. Set up a a deal with Kino to share the costs and include their erich von stroheim pictures included in a boxset. Put a scandalous blurb on the box art and it would sell.

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post #20 of 27
1/30/12 at 9:05pm
Kevin Brownlow's Hollywood miniseries is held up due to cost of licensing the film excerpts, apparently.
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post #21 of 27
1/31/12 at 5:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McCart View Post

Kevin Brownlow's Hollywood miniseries is held up due to cost of licensing the film excerpts, apparently.



What a shame because it's the best introduction to the silent period of Hollywood's history that has ever been produced. The last time it was broadcast, I managed to videotape (shows how long ago that was) a couple of the installments, and naturally watching them makes me wish I had the whole thing.

 

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post #22 of 27
1/31/12 at 1:15pm
Matt ... I'm in the same boat. I found a few of the Brownlow series when they were released on VHS, and managed to tape a few more the one time the series was shown on TCM. But I'm still missing a couple, and would much prefer a DVD or Blu-Ray boxed set, both for quality and space considerations.
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post #23 of 27
1/31/12 at 1:18pm

I found a copy of the series and watched it twice last year. I'd love to buy a remastered version.

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post #24 of 27
1/31/12 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPeriolat View Post

I'd like to think if The Artist wins Best Picture, we may see a revival of interest in silents in the mainstream as well.


If it wins (and it's looking like it will), there will surely be some people who have a new found interest in seeing at the very least films on popular lists of "Best Silent Films".

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post #25 of 27
2/1/12 at 8:40am
What I do know about THE BIG PARADE is that Warner Bros. already restored it sometime around 2004 after they found the original camera negative. It was screened at festivals and then dropped off the face of the earth.

I swear I remember reading an interview with George Feltenstein in which he said WB wanted to release THE WIND, THE CROWD, THE BIG PARADE, GREED, etc., utilizing the Carl Davis scores from the Thames SIlents editions that MGM/UA released on VHS in the '80s. I think it's actually encouraging we haven't seen any of these in the Warner Archive Collection, that Feltenstein is holding out for approval for a retail BluRay/DVD release.

I'm really hoping good sales for WINGS and the success of THE ARTIST and HUGO finally gets WB to spend the money to release these, or at least gives Feltenstein a stronger case to convince the suits that these should be released.
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post #26 of 27
2/1/12 at 10:12am
About a year ago, Kevin Brownlow spoke at a screening of his restoration of FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE here in Los Angeles. A recording of Carl Davis' wonderful score accompanied the film. I remember his saying that he hoped Warners would consider releasing it on DVD or BD, but he thought the chances were slim. I'd never seen this legendary film before but found it even greater than I had imagined it would be. I wonder why, when they have a gorgeous 35mm print already and this rich tango-infused Davis score already recorded in stunning stereo, they don't "take a chance" and release it. The costs would appear to be reasonably minimal, just telecine, mastering and pressing. I'm sure it would find a large international audience if the release were region-free. Arguably, it is Valentino's finest hour and it leaves the Minnelli/Glenn Ford version in the dust.
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post #27 of 27
2/1/12 at 2:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_Kozlowski View Post

What I do know about THE BIG PARADE is that Warner Bros. already restored it sometime around 2004 after they found the original camera negative. It was screened at festivals and then dropped off the face of the earth.
I swear I remember reading an interview with George Feltenstein in which he said WB wanted to release THE WIND, THE CROWD, THE BIG PARADE, GREED, etc., utilizing the Carl Davis scores from the Thames SIlents editions that MGM/UA released on VHS in the '80s. I think it's actually encouraging we haven't seen any of these in the Warner Archive Collection, that Feltenstein is holding out for approval for a retail BluRay/DVD release.
I'm really hoping good sales for WINGS and the success of THE ARTIST and HUGO finally gets WB to spend the money to release these, or at least gives Feltenstein a stronger case to convince the suits that these should be released.


As well he should, especially with titles like Greed and The Big Parade. One could argue that NO silent should not be at least tried in the open market, but that might be problematic. Hopefully, like we have been saying with Wings and The Artist, we may be getting another shot at this. Be especially interesting to see if Criterion's sales of The Gold Rush when that comes out are in any way higher than the previous Chaplin releases. Would go a long way to proving our theory.

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