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post #31 of 50
2/10/12 at 11:35am
It started as a way to prevent titles being clipped by overscan, but today's fixed-pixel displays don't have much overscan so the practice should be abolished.
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post #32 of 50
2/10/12 at 11:57am
Much agreed. The worst offender I have seen is Star Trek III: The Search for Spock on Blu-ray. The frame for the opening titles is shrunk way down. I was baffled when I saw it, especially since none of the credits come anywhere near the edge of the frame. I really hate it. The dvd version was fine.
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post #33 of 50
2/10/12 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P View Post

It started as a way to prevent titles being clipped by overscan, but today's fixed-pixel displays don't have much overscan so the practice should be abolished.

I wouldn't have a problem if they did it because the original title design was outside the SMPTE RP safe area and was in REAL danger of being cropped on a normal consumer TV. While in "rare" instances it could even be necessary to prevent titles on the top or bottom of the screen from being cropped. However, whether with the Disney animations or any of the 007 films, there's been absolutely NO valid reason to do it. I believe they just don't want anyone to have a copy that is ACTUALLY IDENTICAL to what the theatrical release looks like.

You can look at any of the Disney films I refer to and see the titles would have been no problem if done normally. Besides, everyone knows that if there WAS a "slight" problem, they could have squeezed the picture slightly, which would be totally unnoticeable to most people and virtually imperceptible to all but the craziest of film buffs.rolleyes.gif

I believe there's some other EVIL purpose behind it, but, even I can't imagine what it is.smile.gif
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post #34 of 50
2/12/12 at 9:46am



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman707 View Post


I believe they just don't want anyone to have a copy that is ACTUALLY IDENTICAL to what the theatrical release looks like.
 

 

Actually there is some truth to that. Studios will not release the master version - basically for that very reason. They always take it down a step (for Copy protection/illegal bootlegs)

and, well you know -  you never give the original away

 

Although I do not believe titles are windowboxed for that reason. Windowboxing is done to please all the screaming Walmart Shoppers who complain their sets cut off the words - basically these people do not know how to calibrate their sets (or that they even have the ability to do it)

 

Yet the end titles are usually Not window Boxed???

 

The biggest irony - when the studios do not cut off the picture image the Walmart shoppers also scream! And so Pan and Scan versions are released

 

 

As the Hayes Code Believed:   People need to be protected from themselves

 

Maybe we should have a Hayes Code for Home Video with regulations required for properly presenting films and limiting the amount of advertising when a disc starts up 

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post #35 of 50
2/13/12 at 2:13pm

RE: Window boxing titles. The main reason for doing it is because they are legally obligated to put all text in the "title safe" area per agreements with the various Guilds/Societies.

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post #36 of 50
2/13/12 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway View Post

RE: Window boxing titles. The main reason for doing it is because they are legally obligated to put all text in the "title safe" area per agreements with the various Guilds/Societies.

Which begs the question of how TV networks can get away with shrinking end credits of TV shows and movies down to unreadable size during TV airings to make room for more annoying commercials. I've always wondered how the various guilds let them get away with that.
Edited by Rob_Ray - 2/13/12 at 3:01pm
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post #37 of 50
2/13/12 at 2:44pm

I agree with that. I thought that the credits had to be a certain size and must remain on screen for at least two seconds.

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post #38 of 50
2/13/12 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealg View Post

Much agreed. The worst offender I have seen is Star Trek III: The Search for Spock on Blu-ray. The frame for the opening titles is shrunk way down. I was baffled when I saw it, especially since none of the credits come anywhere near the edge of the frame. I really hate it. The dvd version was fine.


I have the same problem with the Blu-ray version of Grease. 
 

 

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post #39 of 50
2/13/12 at 4:00pm

Grease is the worst because when that music starts and it changes to animation, it should be big...and this version just shrinks and lessens the impact.

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post #40 of 50
2/13/12 at 7:18pm

I watched this last night. The presentation is clear and smooth, but I have to admit to liking the transfer of the last DVD release a little more than this version.

 

It's personal preference; I have friends who despised the look of the last DVD, so you pays your money and you takes your choice.

 

I'll keep both and likely alternate them when I'm in the mood to see the movie, one of the finest ever made.

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post #41 of 50
2/15/12 at 8:48am

Thanks much, RAH, for the helpful details on this transfer. thumbsup.gif

 

Haven't picked up the BD just yet, but should likely do so soon-ish.  Can't wait to see this one for the first(!) time (as I never did get around to picking up either DVD version before). biggrin.gif

 

_Man_

 

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post #42 of 50
3/15/12 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMpasqua View Post




 

Actually there is some truth to that. Studios will not release the master version - basically for that very reason. They always take it down a step (for Copy protection/illegal bootlegs)
and, well you know -  you never give the original away

Although I do not believe titles are windowboxed for that reason. Windowboxing is done to please all the screaming Walmart Shoppers who complain their sets cut off the words - basically these people do not know how to calibrate their sets (or that they even have the ability to do it)

Yet the end titles are usually Not window Boxed???

The biggest irony - when the studios do not cut off the picture image the Walmart shoppers also scream! And so Pan and Scan versions are released


As the Hayes Code Believed:   People need to be protected from themselves

Maybe we should have a Hayes Code for Home Video with regulations required for properly presenting films and limiting the amount of advertising when a disc starts up 

After watching this Blu-ray a few weeks ago, I see that they've done it again and screwed up the titles. Nobody will ever make me believe that there isn't a sinister motive behind this somehow. Now a few days ago when I watched the grainless version of "Lady and the Tramp". They actually shrunk the 2.55 AR titles. You can't tell me that the titles would have been cropped or weren't in the SMPTE safe area. While "Lady and the Tramp" is "perfect" looking, it's too perfect for me. I'm beginning to miss REAL film already. There's nothing like the smell of vinegar in the morning.smile.gif
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post #43 of 50
3/16/12 at 2:00pm
Whatever are you talking about? The titles on Lady and the Tramp are not shruken. That is exactly how they appeared in 1955. They designed the titles to appear in the center of the screen against the panoramic backgrounds. I've seen this film projected in theaters decades ago and that is exactly the way the titles have always been.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman707 View Post

Now a few days ago when I watched the grainless version of "Lady and the Tramp". They actually shrunk the 2.55 AR titles. You can't tell me that the titles would have been cropped or weren't in the SMPTE safe area. While "Lady and the Tramp" is "perfect" looking, it's too perfect for me. I'm beginning to miss REAL film already. There's nothing like the smell of vinegar in the morning.smile.gif
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post #44 of 50
3/16/12 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMpasqua View Post


Maybe we should have a Hayes Code for Home Video with regulations required for properly presenting films and limiting the amount of advertising when a disc starts up 

ABSOLUTELY! Just about the only one who gives you a choice between "Main Menu" and "Previews" is CBS/Paramount, at least on their TV shows.

Count me in as voting for that idea.

We could call it the Pasqua Code!
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post #45 of 50
3/16/12 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P View Post

Whatever are you talking about? The titles on Lady and the Tramp are not shruken. That is exactly how they appeared in 1955. They designed the titles to appear in the center of the screen against the panoramic backgrounds. I've seen this film projected in theaters decades ago and that is exactly the way the titles have always been.


You apparently don't have a clue what's been discussed with regard to "shrinking titles" (or optically zooming out), in supposed attempt to show titles that "might have" been cropped if this was not done.confused.gif I'm NOT referring to whether all the information from the original negative is displayed.

You say that "I've seen this film projected in theaters decades ago and that is exactly the way the titles have always been." As a projectionist, I can assure you that I ran the film MANY more times then you've seen it, however, the issue isn't whether the titles look "exactly the way the titles "look like" they did in 1955, but, whether they fill THE SAME SCREEN AREA as the rest of the film.

Look at the film again. If you were running it on a screen masked for 2.55:1 projection, you will see that the ENTIRE IMAGE has been shrunken down and doesn't fill the entire screen UNTIL the titles are finished, it then fills the full screen. This has been done to more and more features lately. Yet, there's absolutely no reason in 99.9% of the time.

The same holds true for the titles on "To Kill A Mockingbird", as well as a number of other titles mentioned by others in the thread.
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post #46 of 50
3/17/12 at 12:47am
Indeed I have been following the conversation and there is no windowboxing of the titles on Lady and the Tramp. What Blu-ray are you looking at because this isn't occurring on mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman707 View Post

You apparently don't have a clue what's been discussed with regard to "shrinking titles" (or optically zooming out), in supposed attempt to show titles that "might have" been cropped if this was not done.confused.gif I'm NOT referring to whether all the information from the original negative is displayed.
You say that "I've seen this film projected in theaters decades ago and that is exactly the way the titles have always been." As a projectionist, I can assure you that I ran the film MANY more times then you've seen it, however, the issue isn't whether the titles look "exactly the way the titles "look like" they did in 1955, but, whether they fill THE SAME SCREEN AREA as the rest of the film.
Look at the film again. If you were running it on a screen masked for 2.55:1 projection, you will see that the ENTIRE IMAGE has been shrunken down and doesn't fill the entire screen UNTIL the titles are finished, it then fills the full screen. This has been done to more and more features lately. Yet, there's absolutely no reason in 99.9% of the time.
The same holds true for the titles on "To Kill A Mockingbird", as well as a number of other titles mentioned by others in the thread.
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post #47 of 50
3/17/12 at 1:20am

Mark, is your tv set to no overscan? I haven't looked at my copy yet, but I was just wondering.

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post #48 of 50
3/17/12 at 1:44am
All of my displays (LCD Projector and Plasma) are set to zero overscan and I assure you that Lady and the Tramp has no black bars on the sides during the opening credits. You can check it out for yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric scott richard View Post

Mark, is your tv set to no overscan? I haven't looked at my copy yet, but I was just wondering.
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post #49 of 50
3/17/12 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P View Post

All of my displays (LCD Projector and Plasma) are set to zero overscan and I assure you that Lady and the Tramp has no black bars on the sides during the opening credits. You can check it out for yourself.

My apologies, you're correct it's not "Lady and the Tramp", it was "Bambi" that they shrunk the titles (in width) on for no good reason. What bothered me with "Lady and the Tramp" was that they removed ALL the grain to the point that it doesn't even look like "film" anymore. Between the fact that I'm loosing my short term memory and watch so many movies that have problems with some of the transfers, I can't remember all the details anymore. However, one thing that I'm certain of with regards to this thread and "To Kill A Mockingbird" is that, once again, they ruined the titles by shrinking them.
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post #50 of 50
4/3/12 at 5:52pm
President Obama will be introducing a broadcast of the remaster used for the Blu-Ray on USA Network at 8 p.m. Eastern/Pacific on Saturday, April 7. Harper Lee released a rare public statement about the broadcast: “I’m deeply honored that President Obama will be celebrating the 50th anniversary of ‘To Kill A Mockingbird’ by introducing it to a national audience,” Ms. Lee said. “I believe it remains the best translation of a book to film ever made, and I’m proud to know that Gregory Peck’s portrayal of Atticus Finch lives on — in a world that needs him now more than ever.”

It's part of a series of broadcasts celebrating Universal's centennial. The article I read was a little confusing but I believe there will also be broadcasts of All Quiet on the Western Front, The Birds, Buck Privates, Dracula (1931), Frankenstein, Jaws, Schindler’s List, Out of Africa, Pillow Talk, Bride of Frankenstein, and The Sting coming down the pike as well.
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To Kill a Mockingbird 50th Anniversary Edition Collector's Series [Blu-ray...
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Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › A Few Words About By Robert Harris › A few words about...™ To Kill a Mockingbird -- in Blu-ray