Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › "Pal Joey" Feb 14th 5.1 with isolated music track
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"Pal Joey" Feb 14th 5.1 with isolated music track

post #1 of 38
1/16/12 at 8:20pm
Thread Starter 

Twilight Time is released a limited 3,000 blu-ray of "Pal Joey" 5.1 sound with an isolated music track.

 

This film has never been released on video in stereo (But in 1957 and with Frank Sinatra one would think a stereo print may have been released at some point in a few major cities?)

 

I remember reading (back in the 80's) they were looing for 4 track masters which may have existed for the soundtrack  (Joe Caps do you know if this is true?)

 

 

 

I saw a beautiful new print of this film about 5 years ago at the Egyptain Theater in LA and was impressed. Prior Home video versions weren't as colorful and sharp. The film held up very welll and worked better on the big screen


Edited by GMpasqua - 1/16/12 at 8:38pm
Reply
post #2 of 38
1/16/12 at 8:29pm
Thread Starter 

From the Twilight Time Web Page:

 

 

 

PAL JOEY (1957) (PRE-ORDER) (BLU-RAY)
Starring:  Frank Sinatra, Kim Novak, Rita Hayworth
Directed By:  George Sidney
Composed By:  Lorenz Hart, Richard Rogers
 

 

PLEASE NOTE: This item has a planned release date of FEB. 14th and is only available for PRE-ORDER at this time.
1. Orders are not shipped until complete. If you wish to receive in-stock items prior to pre-ordered items, you must place separate orders.
2. Release dates are subject to change. All dates are estimates and subject to manufacturer revisions beyond our control.
3. Order modifications. Orders can be canceled and items removed upon request. We are unable to add additional items to pending orders.
4. Payment details. Credit cards are pre-authorized but not captured until we ship the order. Check or PayPal payments are required at time of order.

 

Special Features: Isolated Score Track / Backstage and at Home with Kim Novak / Original Theatrical Trailer
LANGUAGE: English
VIDEO: 1080p High Definition / 1.85:1
AUDIO: English 5.1 DTS-HD MA
SUBTITLES: English SDH
1957 / Color
111 MINUTES
Limited Edition of 3,000 Units


“Admirable gusto…a swiftly moving, cheerful, and adult musical.” —The New York Times

 

“A strong, funny entertainment, with colorful characters and solid story built around the Richard Rodgers and Lorenz Hart songs.” —Variety

 

Frank Sinatra stars as John O’Hara’s caddish crooner in this 1957 film version of the O’Hara/Rodgers and Hart musical, Pal Joey. A fresh—very fresh—arrival on the San Francisco nightclub scene, the amoral and ambitious Joey soon finds himself entangled with two “mice”: the rapacious stripper-turned-society dame Vera (Rita Hayworth) and the good-girl chorine Linda (Kim Novak). Handsomely directed by George Sidney, the film features a double handful of Rodgers and Hart’s greatest tunes, including “Zip,” “My Funny Valentine,” “The Lady Is a Tramp,” and “I Could Write a Book.”

 

 

Enjoy the extensive Julie Kirgo liner notes and film art packaged with the Blu-ray disc.

 

Pal Joey.jpg

 


Edited by GMpasqua - 1/16/12 at 8:45pm
Reply
post #3 of 38
1/16/12 at 8:30pm
Thread Starter 

pal joey flags.jpg

Reply
post #4 of 38
1/17/12 at 6:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMpasqua View Post


I saw a beautiful new print of this film about 5 years ago at the Egyptain Theater in LA and was impressed. Prior Home video versions weren't as colorful and sharp. The film held up very welll and worked better on the big screen

Pal Joey on DVD is a puzzle. I've seen this movie several times in theaters and have always found it to be a very elegant looking movie with beautiful color. I once recorded the movie off TV and it looked good. The VHS cassette was one of the best I've seen. The original DVD which obviously I expected to be far better was a disappointment and did not reflect the visual quality of the movie. The new DVD in the Kim Novak box-set is also below potential.

I very much hope the BRD will at last present Pal Joey properly. I'm longing to hear The Lady Is A Tramp in hi-def sound!
Reply
post #5 of 38
1/17/12 at 6:49am
The film was never in stereo. It is not a scope movie and Columbia only occasionally did stereo for Cinemascope movies.

You could do a remix if Columbia kept sterep prerecords, but as AFAIK, they did not.

I';; but this is just fake stereo derived from the mono dialogue, music an d effects track.

doesn't matter much. this film stinks. A classic case of taking a great broadway show and making a piece of junk out of it.

It's miscast, most of the original score and story is gone, the whole thing has been cleaned up. tons of rodgers and Hart hits dragged in from other shows. What a disaster !!
Reply
post #6 of 38
1/17/12 at 6:55am

I only have the original DVD release, so I'm looking forward to a great advance to that with the Blu-ray. Fiingers crossed.

Reply
post #7 of 38
1/17/12 at 7:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Caps View Post

The film was never in stereo. It is not a scope movie and Columbia only occasionally did stereo for Cinemascope movies.
You could do a remix if Columbia kept sterep prerecords, but as AFAIK, they did not.
I';; but this is just fake stereo derived from the mono dialogue, music an d effects track.
doesn't matter much. this film stinks. A classic case of taking a great broadway show and making a piece of junk out of it.
It's miscast, most of the original score and story is gone, the whole thing has been cleaned up. tons of rodgers and Hart hits dragged in from other shows. What a disaster !!

I could say much the same about Camelot (songs cut, non-singers were cast, too many close-ups like a TV movie, etc), which you seem to really admire. I agree that Pal Joey was transformed from its Broadway original into little more than a vehicle for Sinatra. As a representation of the original, it is indeed a travesty. However, on its own terms, I would hardly say it stinks. I think that as far as Sinatra vehicles go, it's pretty good (but I am prejudiced as I am a huge Sinatra fan). It also showcases Rita Hayworth and Kim Novak quite well.

I, too would be surprised if it was ever in stereo. I'm pretty sure that all my Sinatra recordings of the songs from Pal Joey are in mono.
Reply
post #8 of 38
1/19/12 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B_K View Post

I agree that Pal Joey was transformed from its Broadway original into little more than a vehicle for Sinatra. As a representation of the original, it is indeed a travesty. However, on its own terms, I would hardly say it stinks. I think that as far as Sinatra vehicles go, it's pretty good (but I am prejudiced as I am a huge Sinatra fan). It also showcases Rita Hayworth and Kim Novak quite well.

Seconded. The movie is not what it should have been but it does not stink.
Reply
post #9 of 38
1/19/12 at 4:17pm

I don't know the stage version of Pal Joey.  Worse, I never even saw the film till just last year when it was beautifully presented at the Lafayette Theater.  So, out of all context, viewing it just as a Sinatra film I was seeing for the first time, I really enjoyed the eye and ear candy.  Fortunately, this isn't the first musical I've "learned" in reverse order -- film version, then stage -- and I look forward to getting to know the original book and score.  As for now, I'm hoping for the best with this release.

 

Reply
post #10 of 38
1/19/12 at 5:01pm
Thread Starter 

The story is basically the same except for a subplot to blackmail Joey by Gladys and some other guy.

 

The film lost a host of songs (basically they couldn't get by the censors) and much of the dialog was cleaned up for film.

 

The two biggest changes are that Joey is a singer and no longer a dancer (Gene Kelly played Joey on Broadway) and the location was moved from Chicago to San Francisco

 

To satifsy the censors Vera is no longer a married woman but a widow. Linda's character is also larger and I don't recall that she was a treat to Vera in the stage version.

 

Some great songs were cut ( though some were filmed: "What is a Man" by Vera when Joey first vists her on the patio and "You Mustn't Kick it Around" - as part of the dream sequence at the end)

 

some great songs Roger and Hart songs were added :The Lady is a Tramp" "Small Hotel" "I Didn't Know what Time it was" and "My Funny Valentine"

Reply
post #11 of 38
1/19/12 at 5:08pm
At this time it's hard to say what the "original" PAL JOEY is. The recent, middling Broadway revival (where Stockard Channing and Martha Plimpton, in support, crushed the leading man) used a revised book, which was indeed harsher, and raunchier, than the sanitized movie. But it was a 2008 sensibility applied to a period piece, not 1940 Broadway.
Reply
post #12 of 38
1/19/12 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B_K View Post

I'm pretty sure that all my Sinatra recordings of the songs from Pal Joey are in mono.

The "stereo" issue of the original Capitol soundtrack LP claimed to be part true stereo and the rest rechanneled mono. The only Sinatra tracks claimed to be stereo are "I Didn't Know What Time it Was" and "What Do I Care for a Dame?" The Sinatra session listings I've seen do show these two tracks having been the last he recorded for the film, and at a separate session from the rest. Here's the track listing from the "stereo" LP with the tracks claimed to be stereo marked with an asterisk:

Side One: MAIN TITLE
THAT TERRIFIC RAINBOW*
I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TIME IT WAS*
DO IT THE HARD WAY (Instrumental)
GREAT BIG TOWN*
THERE'S A SMALL HOTEL
ZIP*
I COULD WRITE A BOOK
BEWITCHED*

Side Two: THE LADY IS A TRAMP
PLANT YOU NOW, DIG YOU LATER (Instrumental)
MY FUNNY VALENTINE*
YOU MUSTN'T KICK IT AROUND (Instrumental)
BEWITCHED (Reprise)
STRIP NUMBER (Instrumental)
Dream Sequence and Finale:
WHAT DO I CARE FOR A DAME*
BEWITCHED
I COULD WRITE A BOOK*

The SINATRA IN HOLLYWOOD box presents all the PAL JOEY tracks in mono.
Reply
post #13 of 38
1/20/12 at 6:43am
I have the fake stereo Joey album right in front of me -- and NOWHERE does it claim that nay of it is true stereo.
the Joey tracks on the Sinatra in Hollywood, produced by didier Deutsch., were all mono, because a search through various vaults and archives turned up NO stereo tracks at all.
Reply
post #14 of 38
1/20/12 at 7:41am
Thread Starter 

I had read in (I believe) the "Perfect Vision" video quarterly back in the late 80's early 90s some one was searching somewhere in a Mid America land vault for 4 track masters for "Pal Joey" - Do not know why they thought these might exist

 

 

Reply
post #15 of 38
1/20/12 at 9:28am
As you know, I wrote many articles for the Perfect Vision, and I do not remember that information b eing passedon. At that time, columbia was not looking for anything in their vault, trust me.
Reply
post #16 of 38
1/20/12 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Caps View Post

I have the fake stereo Joey album right in front of me -- and NOWHERE does it claim that nay of it is true stereo.

Here's a scan of the track listing from the back cover of my copy, Joe (I added the red highlighting). Catalog number is Capitol DW-912. I'm thinking it's the first 'stereo' issue because it's got a big "NEW Duophonic" sticker pasted on the front.

421
Reply
post #17 of 38
1/20/12 at 4:37pm
That LP is not true Stereo. It is "electronic" stereo. That is what "Duophonic" means. That was Capitol's name for fake stereo reprocessing of mono recordings. These type of alterations usually sounded horrible and serious LP collectors avoid these like the plague.
Reply
post #18 of 38
1/21/12 at 7:13am
Right. Duophonic was Capitols fake stereo. Horrid.

The lp was released in 1957, before stereo records. its hardly likely Capitol would go back to columbia Pictures a year latere and ask for true stereo tracks for a film, that was not particularly a hit.


However, they certainly went back to various studiss to get stereo tracks for Oklahoma, Carousel, and King and I.
Reply
post #19 of 38
1/21/12 at 7:51am

But wasn't Bells Are Ringing the first cast album released in both mono and stereo formats? It came out in late 1956.

Reply
post #20 of 38
1/21/12 at 9:28am
The Columbia Bells are Ringing cast album was recorded stereo, but it was only later that the stereo LP was released. It odd to think of now, but it was a while before Columbia Records started releasing mono and stereo versions of LPs on the same day. The cast album of Bernstein's Candide was recorded in the same month as Bells, but the stereo LP didn't come out until 1963!

Bottom line, I don't think there are stereo Pal Joey tracks anywhere either. Was just showing an odd notation on the LP release. Listening to the record, the 'stereo' tracks sound similar to the duophonic ones. There might be some very narrow stereo going on in places, but it's not immediately noticeable.
Reply
post #21 of 38
1/21/12 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH. View Post

But wasn't Bells Are Ringing the first cast album released in both mono and stereo formats? It came out in late 1956.

Stereo records came out in 1957. Sinatra's first stereo L. P, Where Are You, came out that year.
Reply
post #22 of 38
1/21/12 at 9:35am

I seem to remember being told that in the case of Candide, the mono and stereo recordings are from two different sessions.

Reply
post #23 of 38
1/21/12 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas in CT View Post

I seem to remember being told that in the case of Candide, the mono and stereo recordings are from two different sessions.

I guess it's possible, but I doubt it, just because of the expense that would be involved with recording (and paying everybody) twice. There are definitely different 'takes' used on the mono vs. stereo (as is true of Bells), but I think they're the same sessions. I think stereo was just new to them, and, they chose different takes due to technical mishaps.
Reply
post #24 of 38
1/21/12 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Skoda View Post

I guess it's possible, but I doubt it, just because of the expense that would be involved with recording (and paying everybody) twice. There are definitely different 'takes' used on the mono vs. stereo (as is true of Bells), but I think they're the same sessions. I think stereo was just new to them, and, they chose different takes due to technical mishaps.

I know that in Sinatra's Capitol albums, the mono and stereo versions were recorded simultaneously with a multi-mic set up for mono and usually 3 for stereo. This is why you hear more instruments in Come Fly With Me and Only the Lonely on the mono versions. After 1958, Sinatra's albums were recorded primarily for the stereo market. To anyone interested in recording techniques I recommend Chuck Granata's book Sessions With Sinatra. Because Sinatra recorded from the late 30's to the digital era, his history parallels that of the recording industry's.
Reply
post #25 of 38
1/21/12 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B_K View Post

I know that in Sinatra's Capitol albums, the mono and stereo versions were recorded simultaneously with a multi-mic set up for mono and usually 3 for stereo. This is why you hear more instruments in Come Fly With Me and Only the Lonely on the mono versions. After 1958, Sinatra's albums were recorded primarily for the stereo market. To anyone interested in recording techniques I recommend Chuck Granata's book Sessions With Sinatra. Because Sinatra recorded from the late 30's to the digital era, his history parallels that of the recording industry's.

Thank you for the concise explanation. I'll have to get Granata's book. I spend a lot of time listening to Frank Sinatra's recordings at Capitol. The sound is warm, clear, intimate and with immediacy and presence. Especially the mono recordings. The mono recordings are so fine you won't notice the absence of stereo. Competitive with today's recording technology (oh yes it is). Artistically, the Capitol albums are a listening experience everyone should have:

http://www.amazon.com/Capitol-Records-Concept-Albums-Sinatra/dp/B000BWI70W/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1327175345&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Capitol-Years-Frank-Sinatra/dp/B00000FDCY/ref=sr_1_17?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1327175391&sr=1-17

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Capitol-Singles-Collection-Sinatra/dp/B000002U51/ref=sr_1_6?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1327175345&sr=1-6

I also have Sinatra In Hollywood 1940-1964 which is a meticulously restored and organized collection:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000066BN9/sr=1-1-spell/qid=1327175525/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1327175525&sr=1-1-spell&seller=

The tracks from Pal Joey (disc 5, bands 18-24) are in mono and sound fine to me.
Reply
post #26 of 38
1/21/12 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas in CT View Post

I don't know the stage version of Pal Joey.  Worse, I never even saw the film till just last year when it was beautifully presented at the Lafayette Theater.  So, out of all context, viewing it just as a Sinatra film I was seeing for the first time, I really enjoyed the eye and ear candy.  Fortunately, this isn't the first musical I've "learned" in reverse order -- film version, then stage -- and I look forward to getting to know the original book and score.  As for now, I'm hoping for the best with this release.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMpasqua View Post

The story is basically the same except for a subplot to blackmail Joey by Gladys and some other guy.

The film lost a host of songs (basically they couldn't get by the censors) and much of the dialog was cleaned up for film.

The two biggest changes are that Joey is a singer and no longer a dancer (Gene Kelly played Joey on Broadway) and the location was moved from Chicago to San Francisco

To satifsy the censors Vera is no longer a married woman but a widow. Linda's character is also larger and I don't recall that she was a treat to Vera in the stage version.

Some great songs were cut ( though some were filmed: "What is a Man" by Vera when Joey first vists her on the patio and "You Mustn't Kick it Around" - as part of the dream sequence at the end)

some great songs Roger and Hart songs were added :The Lady is a Tramp" "Small Hotel" "I Didn't Know what Time it was" and "My Funny Valentine"

My first acquaintance with Pal Joey was as a film. It's my favorite Sinatra film, or vehicle. I didn't know about the history of the film and the play until later. When I read the play, I found it a more daring and original work. Very much a part of the late 1930s. I would like to see that get filmed today the way it was written. But the Sinatra film is something special.

Can anyone comment on the musical integrity of the complete soundtrack CD's? Mono or stereo? Fake stereo? Needle drops instead of tape sourced? It's been released a few times by different labels across the pond. I've never heard it myself.
Reply
post #27 of 38
1/21/12 at 4:30pm
474

Evidently there is a soundtrack CD on the U.K.'s Blue Moon label. This is supposedly the original soundtrack album remastered. But it's the studio takes, not the soundtrack studio takes. Has anyone heard this CD?
Reply
post #28 of 38
1/21/12 at 8:17pm
According to Chuck Granata over at the Sinatra Family Forum, the stereo tracks to Pal Joey are lost. Read his comments in THIS THREAD. In addition to writing the book I mentioned earlier, Chuck has also produced or co-produced several Sinatra compilations, including the complete Columbia set and the set mentioned by Richard--W, Sinatra in Hollywood.

There were stereo tracks; but apparently they were discarded. He describes his work on that compilation throughout the thread, but post 74 specifically deals with Pal Joey's stereo tracks.
Quote:
Posted by Richard--W: Evidently there is a soundtrack CD on the U.K.'s Blue Moon label. This is supposedly the original soundtrack album remastered. But it's the studio takes, not the soundtrack studio takes. Has anyone heard this CD?

Richard, on another thread at the Sinatra Family forum, the Blue Moon soundtrack to Pal Joey is identified as an unauthorized version from Spain; so i would not expect much from it. The Sinatra Family Forum is a good resource for Sinatra info.

Also, speaking again of Chuck Granata, he co-hosts and produces Nancy For Frank on the Sirius/XM Siriusly Sinatra channel. On the show he sometimes discusses the various takes of Sinatra's songs and his efforts to produce the best sounding compilations possible.
Reply
post #29 of 38
2/21/12 at 9:49am

Has anyone received their Twilight Time Pal Joey or Swamp Water Blu-rays?  I usually get my pre-ordered discs within a couple of days of release date, which for these was the 14th.  Still nothing today, and on the website I see the status of my order is "PENDING".

Reply
post #30 of 38
2/21/12 at 9:52am
I have not received Pal Joey yet; but I did receive a "shipped" notification email yesterday.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › "Pal Joey" Feb 14th 5.1 with isolated music track