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The Roots of Heaven Blu-ray Review - Page 2

post #31 of 48
1/19/12 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVid View Post

'Tis true! The chariot and wagon sequences on THE EGYPTIAN and THE ROBE blu-ray do utilize the surround channel most effectively; and I just played the Aton sequence Joe described from THE EGYPTIAN and it is as he said. I have side dipoles and a single horn transducer in the rear and the effect was sweet!
I can't wait to get JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH on blu-ray! I hope Twilight Time has that on their list!

You may have a point, but what you're hearing is a new mix. It's not the surround sound that audiences experienced when these movies opened in the first run theatres. It's interesting to note that second run and neighborhood houses refused to go along with magnetic multi-channel sound and Fox was forced to provide mono optical track prints for these theatres.
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post #32 of 48
1/19/12 at 7:27pm

Well Matt, you did to me again.  Your review caused me to get on the SAE web site and order THE ROOTS OF HEAVEN and it has been shipped.  You have never steered me in the wrong directions before and I trust this will be clear sailing too.  Looking forward to watching the film.  Thanks. 

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post #33 of 48
1/19/12 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVid View Post

The PAL JOEY and PICNIC blu-ray soundtracks are most likely the first-time 5.1 mixes that have already been released on DVD in THE KIM NOVAK COLLECTION from Sony. I heard the PAL JOEY 5.1 mix on the dvd and it is definitely processed, with only relative separation, as opposed to true multi-channel sound. The PICNIC dvd in this set, on the other hand, is restored, with a discrete mix that improves on the 2-track matrix stereo from former dvd releases. Still, no matter how you cut it, Twilight Time's PAL JOEY and PICNIC look like they are going to be first-rate presentations on blu-ray.
With regard to CinemaScope 4-track stereo, it does appear that surrounds were only employed for specific sequences and that directional dialogue and high-fidelity stereo music in the front channels was the primary goal. There is surround information in both THE ROBE and THE EGYPTIAN, albeit mostly confined to storm rumblings. I think if theaters had fancier Perspecta processors in their auditoriums, they were able to give their CinemaScope surround speakers more separation and ambience.


The screener of PICNIC arrived in today's mail. I haven't had a chance to preview it yet, but the packaging list the audio as 5.1 DTS HD-MA.

 

I should have the review up by Saturday night.

 

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post #34 of 48
1/20/12 at 5:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Lidolt View Post

You may have a point, but what you're hearing is a new mix. It's not the surround sound that audiences experienced when these movies opened in the first run theatres. It's interesting to note that second run and neighborhood houses refused to go along with magnetic multi-channel sound and Fox was forced to provide mono optical track prints for these theatres.
Fox received many complaints in early 1954 that Fox films weren't utilising the surround (or as it was called "Auditorium Effects") track enough. Daryl Zanuck sent memos to the sound department demanding that they make greater use of the A.E. track, but since so many of the tracks are lost it is hard to know if any major change was made.
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post #35 of 48
1/20/12 at 6:33am
Other studios did seem to be more aggresive with surrounds than Fox.

but one person mentions its hard to know what was on the actual sorounds with so many of them being lost. What makes him think they were lost.
Fox has almost all of theirs as does MGM and Warners.
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post #36 of 48
1/20/12 at 6:35am
Yes, but of course the original audio is just 4.0 for this film. When you bump to 5.1, something has to be changed to get there.
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post #37 of 48
1/20/12 at 7:27am



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Caps View Post

Other studios did seem to be more aggresive with surrounds than Fox.
but one person mentions its hard to know what was on the actual sorounds with so many of them being lost. What makes him think they were lost.
Fox has almost all of theirs as does MGM and Warners.


Too bad people can't go back and read or re-read some of those great articles in Perfect Vision that you were involved in on the hunt for the stereo tracks to films.  Because of those in depth writings a lot of laserdiscs would have been released in Mono instead of stereo as they ended up.  Those discussions and the ones in the letters to the editor were always favorite readings of mine.   From what I remember, Columbia was the main company that had no idea what they had or did not have at the time.  I am sure Mr. Crisp has that well in hand now. 
 

 

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post #38 of 48
1/20/12 at 7:58am

What a great idea!  Thank you for the reminder.  I have the Perfect Visions and will never part with them (likewise, the Absolute Sounds).  Re-reading now should be more rewarding than ever.

 

Confession:  I didn't even know about The Roots of Heaven till Twilight Time announced it, and I even missed this review at first.  It's on its way.

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post #39 of 48
1/20/12 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Caps View Post

Other studios did seem to be more aggresive with surrounds than Fox.
but one person mentions its hard to know what was on the actual sorounds with so many of them being lost. What makes him think they were lost.
Fox has almost all of theirs as does MGM and Warners.

Judging from what we hear( or rather not hear!) they are generally lost or if Warner's has them- badly transferred.
Zanuck berated the Fox sound department for not using the "surround"( called "AP"in the UK for Audience Participation) more.
There is one of his memos where he advised them to see " Battle Cry" which had guns firing over the audience from the APs. Where is it on the Warners dvd? Nowhere.
And while on Warners, I have seen more 70mm prints of " 2001 " from and including its Cinerama showings than I can remember. In every one "a ladies cashmere sweater has been found" in on the 6th surround track( and on the left when split dolby surround prints are used). Where is it on the dvd and BD? Why in the centre of course.
Clearly not much attention or indeed any, is given to the use of correct rear channels when these vintage films are transferred. We should demand better.
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post #40 of 48
1/20/12 at 3:24pm
To my eyes and ears, the opening Fox logo and music do not look or sound like they are from 1958. It sounds like a later recording of the Fox fanfare and CinemaScope extension music. Is it possible they tacked on something different? When the credits begin, the music sounds correct.
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post #41 of 48
1/21/12 at 7:57pm

John McElwee's Greenbriar Picture Shows site has an excellent write up concerning THE ROOTS OF HEAVEN and it's only Roadshow booking at the RKO Palace in New York. Mr. McElwee's site is always informative and interesting and this one is really is a great one.  I think if you take the time to read it you will certainly come away with a little more interest and knowledge of the film and the time it was released in. 

 

http://greenbriarpictureshows.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

 

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post #42 of 48
1/21/12 at 9:56pm
Informative write-up.
But I don't need encouragement. I'll pick up Roots of Heaven and Pal Joey in my next go-round.

(I wish you would clean up the language in your signature, Allen.)

475

700
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post #43 of 48
1/22/12 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahollis View Post

Well Matt, you did to me again.  Your review caused me to get on the SAE web site and order THE ROOTS OF HEAVEN and it has been shipped.  You have never steered me in the wrong directions before and I trust this will be clear sailing too.  Looking forward to watching the film.  Thanks. 

I have that same problem with Matt too.  He gets expensive after a while....laugh.gif

 

 

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post #44 of 48
1/22/12 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard--W View Post

Informative write-up.
But I don't need encouragement. I'll pick up Roots of Heaven and Pal Joey in my next go-round.
(I wish you would clean up the language in your signature, Allen.)
 


I was not trying to encourage you, only offering an interesting piece of writing about a not very well know film. 

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post #45 of 48
1/23/12 at 7:15pm
Back to Roots of Heaven - just a question to clarify, is this a BR only release?
I didn't see any mention of an SD.
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post #46 of 48
1/23/12 at 7:26pm
Thread Starter 

Blu-ray only.

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post #47 of 48
1/25/12 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Caps View Post

Yes, but of course the original audio is just 4.0 for this film. When you bump to 5.1, something has to be changed to get there.

Coverting 4.0 to 5.1 should be easy. The "5" is left front, center front, right front, left surround, right surround. All you have to do is send the surrond channel from the 4.0 to the left surrond and right surround. The rest is the same.
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post #48 of 48
1/25/12 at 7:03pm
Yes, but usually the mono surround is turned into a fake stereo surround, losing some directionality with the front.
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