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Is the b&w era of TV on DVD slowly coming to an end? - Page 4

post #91 of 591
1/25/12 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regulus View Post

Is the B&W era of TV on DVD coming to an end?
Explain whay the Motion Picture Acadamy has Nominated a B&W SILENT MOVIE (The Artist - The First B&W Movie to come out since Young Frankenstein IICRC), not to mention the first Silent Movie since Silent Movie (Which was produced by the same person as Young Frankenstein, Mel Brooks). laugh.gif


Raging Bull was a 1980 release though it did have color home movie footage. Schindler's List did have a final color sequence but was for all intents and purposes a black and white film. The Elephant Man was also all black and white, and it, too, came after Young Frankenstein.
 

 

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post #92 of 591
1/25/12 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH. View Post


Raging Bull was a 1980 release though it did have color home movie footage. Schindler's List did have a final color sequence but was for all intents and purposes a black and white film. The Elephant Man was also all black and white, and it, too, came after Young Frankenstein.

 

As long as we're listing modern B&W films, Manhattan also followed Young Frankenstein. Although your list of titles followed it.. More recently, there was Good Night And Good Luck

David
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post #93 of 591
1/25/12 at 8:23pm
My goodness, Regulus, you seriously thought there hadn't been any Black & White movies released since Young Frankenstein? There have been a lot!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regulus View Post

(The Artist - The First B&W Movie to come out since Young Frankenstein IICRC)
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post #94 of 591
1/26/12 at 4:27am
I Stand Corrected! redface.gif

I do believe The Artist is the first Silent Movie to be released since Silent Movie. (1976) biggrin.gif

I wonder, will some Studio Exec ponder about reviving Movie Serials? laugh.gif
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post #95 of 591
1/26/12 at 6:24am
Thread Starter 

    Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack P View Post

Yes, but the conversation was shifting gears to the CBS Syndication Bible. smile.gif
Truthfully, there aren't many B/W shows I'm still losing sleep over not being on DVD or not being finished except for "Burke's Law". Finish that, and I'm one step short of B/W nirvana.
...all I'm left with is "Burke's Law" and "Sheena" on the Grail list, one more year of "Gunsmoke" to finish out the half hour era for the near-Grail list and that's it. Every other Grail title for me is late 60s to late 70s color for starting up and unstalling.


Jack, that's wonderful that you're interest in b/w TV has just about come to a close and that almost all your favorites are finished.  But I started this thread because there are still M-A-N-Y shows from the b/w era that I'm very interested in and if people want to talk about color shows, or b/w movies, there are more appropriate threads for those things.  I don't mind an occasional divergence like what my good friend Steve O. did.  He brought up the CBS Syndication library but his first comments concerning it were directed toward a b/w show, thus keeping in step with the purpose and title of the thread.  He then mentioned a couple of color shows after that.  But he didn't exclusively mention color shows like you did.  That's why I politely, with an appropriate smiley, tried to make that point.  I don't mind if other issues evolve in the thread, but I'd like to see it stay somewhat on track and I fear it has veered off topic over the last day or so. 


Without going into details, one studio specific portion of my crystal ball has all but confirmed my concerns over this issue.  It's very apparent that we are seeing a release shift that continues to move away from b/w TV and towards a decade (the 70's) that I'm just not very interested in.  The same is true for the 80's and beyond.  Yes, there are a small smattering of titles I'd like to see from those decades, but those aren't on any release schedules that I'm getting wind of.  So I'll have to be content with Timeless (who is clearly committed to the era of series I'm interested in), and the few scraps that Shout, CBS, and the others offer.  But I know it's going to be less than last year, which was less than the year before, which was... and so on since the last quarter of 2008. 

 

 

Gary "still excited about some things that are coming later this year though - we are still going to see some nice shows from the golden age of TV released in 2012" O.

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post #96 of 591
1/26/12 at 8:57am
The movie part I agree was off-track, but I honestly don't see where my own comments did that. Sometimes a lenghthy thread will have a few side matters related to it. It stemmed from someone asking if CBS Syndication Bible updates were always reliable leading indicators of a DVD release, and I felt it had to be noted that there are a couple instances where that hasn't happened which I think is necessary to let those not think an update is a 100% guarantee the DVD will then follow.
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post #97 of 591
1/26/12 at 10:23am
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack P View Post

The movie part I agree was off-track, but I honestly don't see where my own comments did that. Sometimes a lenghthy thread will have a few side matters related to it. It stemmed from someone asking if CBS Syndication Bible updates were always reliable leading indicators of a DVD release, and I felt it had to be noted that there are a couple instances where that hasn't happened which I think is necessary to let those not think an update is a 100% guarantee the DVD will then follow.


Jack, I'm not looking to get into a "he said, she said" type of disagreement.  My initial response wasn't meant to be a huge hand slap or anything of that nature, and had you left your first reply at just what you said above and not gone into a long explanation of why you didn't care if anything else b/w got released because you were personally satisfied with the current state of releases then I'd have had no problem.  But I felt like you were kind of telling me it's no big deal if b/w TV on DVD is in decline because you don't care and you've got all you want from that era.  And I just wanted to re-assert my feeling, which is clearly the opposite of yours in this matter.  If I felt like you did I wouldn't have even started the thread at all.

 

 

Gary "no harm, no foul" O.

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post #98 of 591
1/26/12 at 1:32pm
Ummm, getting back on track, sort of, I just watched the first few episodes of Overland Trail in glorious b&w, and must say it is a very entertaining show with old pro William Bendix and a VERY youthful Doug McClure, easily one of my favorite western actors. TMG has done a very good job with the release, and even though the quality is not of The Twilight Zone, it is still very watchable and good quality.
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post #99 of 591
1/26/12 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard V View Post

Ummm, getting back on track, sort of, I just watched the first few episodes of Overland Trail in glorious b&w, and must say it is a very entertaining show with old pro William Bendix and a VERY youthful Doug McClure, easily one of my favorite western actors. TMG has done a very good job with the release, and even though the quality is not of The Twilight Zone, it is still very watchable and good quality.



Glad to hear about Overland Trail, Richard.  I look forward to this one myself.  And glad you are getting the thread back on track.  biggrin.gif

 

 

Gary "Timeless has been on fire with their releases recently" O.

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post #100 of 591
1/27/12 at 5:31am
Speaking of b&w shows that I really enjoy, has anyone heard any rumors about Perry Mason being continued in 2012?
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post #101 of 591
1/27/12 at 5:39am
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by GMBurns View Post

Speaking of b&w shows that I really enjoy, has anyone heard any rumors about Perry Mason being continued in 2012?


So far PM has been released at a fairly consistent rate of speed.  Until we hear otherwise, I'd feel good about seeing more this year.

 

 

Gary "it would be a shame if Perry Mason got stalled - I don't think that will happen though" O.


Edited by Gary OS - 1/27/12 at 6:03am
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post #102 of 591
1/28/12 at 6:19pm

Burke's Law was mentioned above.  I enjoyed watching that when it was on (I think) American Life TV.   Was an explanation ever given why releases stopped?  Did Fox pull the plug on licensing it?  This would be a good property for Shout Factory.

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post #103 of 591
1/28/12 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve...O View Post

Burke's Law was mentioned above.  I enjoyed watching that when it was on (I think) American Life TV.   Was an explanation ever given why releases stopped?  Did Fox pull the plug on licensing it?  This would be a good property for Shout Factory.


VCI said it was all Fox on not allowing them to license the remaining seasons.  I would not be opposed to Shout picking up the rest of the sesons.  They would do a great job with it. 
 

 

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post #104 of 591
1/28/12 at 10:39pm
What the *bleep* is wrong with Fox? How can they not be satisfied with Burke's Law's performance on DVD? It was a strong seller for crying out loud! To whoever at Fox suggesting not allowing them: Did you fail economics 101 or something?

As for the likelyhood of Shout picking up where VCI left off? Well, MatthewA claimed that their relationship with Fox had all but gone south. However Brian Ward denied it, and Cliff MacMillan never said, or implied, that said relationship had all but gone south. So I don't know who to trust.
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post #105 of 591
1/28/12 at 11:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vnisanian2001 View Post

What the *bleep* is wrong with Fox? How can they not be satisfied with Burke's Law's performance on DVD? It was a strong seller for crying out loud! To whoever at Fox suggesting not allowing them: Did you fail economics 101 or something?
As for the likelyhood of Shout picking up where VCI left off? Well, MatthewA claimed that their relationship with Fox had all but gone south. However Brian Ward denied it, and Cliff MacMillan never said, or implied, that said relationship had all but gone south. So I don't know who to trust.


It is strange, Fox cannot seem to negotiate with outside vendors like Shout! (not just Burke's Law, but Peyton Place, for example), but are also unwilling to release much of anything unless it's been released in the last five years or so.

 

I'd blame greed, I'd blame arrogance, I'd blame terminal stupidity, but it's probably all of the above.

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post #106 of 591
1/29/12 at 12:25am
Again, who am I supposed to trust? Neither Brian Ward, nor Cliff M. ever said, or implied that their relationship with Fox had all but gone south.
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post #107 of 591
1/29/12 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vnisanian2001 View Post

What the *bleep* is wrong with Fox? How can they not be satisfied with Burke's Law's performance on DVD? It was a strong seller for crying out loud! To whoever at Fox suggesting not allowing them: Did you fail economics 101 or something?
As for the likelyhood of Shout picking up where VCI left off? Well, MatthewA claimed that their relationship with Fox had all but gone south. However Brian Ward denied it, and Cliff MacMillan never said, or implied, that said relationship had all but gone south. So I don't know who to trust.

It is strange about Burke's Law as there are only the two main seasons, Amos Burke-Secret Agent and the remake. We got only one season here in the UK too. I would like to see The COmplete Burke's Law sometime but I doubt that it will happen.
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post #108 of 591
1/29/12 at 8:15am
Again, who am I supposed to trust? Neither Brian Ward, nor Cliff M. ever said, or implied that their relationship with Fox had all but gone south.

Sorry for repeating myself. Brian denied it, and I don't remember Cliff M. ever saying of implying that said relationship had gone south.
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post #109 of 591
1/29/12 at 8:40pm
Laramie, Season 2, now available at my local Sam's
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post #110 of 591
2/1/12 at 7:45am
The one thing for sure is that nothing is for sure. As of now, Timeless only has access to licensing from Universal. But who knows when that might change in the future? Management and executives at these studios are like a revolving door and just because they might happen to have people there now who refuse to let any shows out for a reasonable price does not mean that things can't change at any point. I don't expect Warner to do anything as they seem to be going along with their own release program albeit at a snail's pace. But Sony has opened the doors to Shout so maybe at some point they will deal with TImeless and maybe we can get some of their black and white shows. Fox, has always been the absolute worst, hence all of their shows, the Ziv shows and the Four Star shows are all locked away from view. But one can only hope that at some point someone there comes to their senses and realizes that they are never going to do anything with hundreds of these series and that they can get some money for them by cutting a deal. CBS seems to feel that by sublicensing, they would be competing with themselves. But again, maybe at some point, they let Timeless have shows like Gunslinger, Hotel de Paree, Trackdown, etc.
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post #111 of 591
2/10/12 at 7:57pm
Thread Starter 

Well, at least we got some good news from Shout today about another b/w series - Route 66.  I'd have preferred we got a chance at just the missing S4 instead of a Complete set release, but perhaps they will still offer the last season as a stand alone down the line.  If they improve the A/V quality from the uneven releases Infinity gave us a couple of years ago, I'll likely get the complete set anyhow.

 

On the downside for b/w fans like myself, it's now crystal clear that Shout is firmly entrenched in the color era, what with more announcements for several more 70's series.  Don't get me wrong.  I'm happy for fans of the series that are being released.  And I'll get one or two of the color offerings myself.  But I do think the pattern is very clear in terms of what direction Shout Factory is heading.  Perhaps they will shock me and release Lassie, Bachelor Father, Dobie Gillis, or the rest of The Lone Ranger.  Or maybe they'll really surprise me and release the remaining Mr. Peepers episodes.  But I'm not holding my breath for any such announcements.  I still contend that Timeless is the only real bastion of vintage b/w TV left - at least when it comes to multiple quarterly releases.  Sure, we will still get a release or two from one of the majors.  For instance, I imagine CBS will continue to release things like Perry Mason, Rawhide, Gunsmoke, and HGWT.  Hopefully WB Archives will continue to release some of their material.  And indies like MPI or Shanachie will give us something here and there (Donna Reed & Car 54, as respective examples).  But overall I'm not real impressed with the b/w output we've seen thus far in 2012 and what I know is coming (other than Timeless, and CBS to a lesser extent).

 

 

Gary "fortunately, there's still enough coming to keep me interested - plus my wallet is getting a much needed rest" O.


Edited by Gary OS - 2/11/12 at 3:50pm
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post #112 of 591
2/12/12 at 3:21pm
I don't know if you saw my posting, Gary, in the Ironside thread but I just picked up in Australia Seasons 5 & 6 of Rawhide, COMPLETE for $25 each! That's less than what a half season goes for here. So even if CBS abandons the show, the whole run is out over there.

As to the many black and white shows left in the can, I don't think we will ever get official DVD releases of shows like My Little Margie, Oh Susannah, Life of Riley, Burns and Allen, Jack Benny, December Bride, Our Miss Brooks, Pete and Gladys, Private Secretary, The Ann Sothern Show, Dragnet, Racket Squad, The Millionaire, The Lineup, The People's Choice, Love That Bob, Bachelor Father and many of the other 50s shows. As for the great early 60s dramas, I don't hold out a lot of hope for those either, unless Warner comes through on their promises with shows like The Lieutenant and the like. Even if they wanted to do something with them, for many of these shows there just aren't any tape elements and its too costly to go back to the 35s.
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post #113 of 591
2/13/12 at 8:09am
Thread Starter 

Neil, I hadn't seen your post in the Ironside thread, so thanks for the information!  Sounds like you got a tremendous deal, and there's no doubt the R4 sets of Rawhide are a legit way to go for fans of that series. 

 

That's another great list of shows!  I agree that most, if not all, will never see the light of day.  And that really is a shame.  But the handwriting is on the wall as far as I'm concerned, and it tells me that several of the companies I've been counting on to continue releasing b/w series are now leaning heavily toward the color era of the late 60's and into the 70's.  I honestly believe that, for the most part, the studios and indies have really shifted gears and are focusing almost all their efforts on color series.  That's clearly the case with the WB Archives and now Shout.  Other than Timeless (which is a special case because its higher ups love the older b/w westerns), and to a lessening degree CBS, we just aren't seeing much 50's and early 60's output at all.  And I see no evidence that would lead me to believe that's going to change at this point.  We are now almost 50 years removed from b/w TV, and the sad fact is that a huge portion of the dvd buying public just hasn't been exposed to that type of programming - or they just don't care anything for it.  I also have to question the younger execs that now make the decisions.  Do they even know or care about their b/w properties?  I realize that sounds cynical and mean, but it's an honest question. 

 

 

Gary "at this point I guess we just have to be happy with what we have, and the little that is still coming" O.

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post #114 of 591
2/13/12 at 8:47am
I think if we give Warner Bros. time that eventually everything they own will be available via MOD. At the rate they are going with theatrical films, that seems to be the case, so why should their TV holdings be any different? A couple of weeks ago they released a handful of film titles from the early talkie 1930 era -- obscure titles with few stars that are recognizable today -- and they must be selling because they do this fairly regularly. Virtually nobody is still alive that has any nostalgia for titles like "Man to Man" and "The Woman Racket" and I don't think they've even gotten much, if any, airtime on TCM. Obviously, the people in charge of choosing films to be released have a different agenda and a different target audience than those who are choosing the TV shows, but I still think that given enough time, most titles will become available through whatever means of access becomes the standard. Hopefully, the 50s TV titles Warners owns will become the new undiscovered gems by the next generation mining the vaults.

And as successful as Warners has been with the program, can the other studios not afford to exploit their catalog holdings? The only thing that has to happen is for the costs associated with releasing the product to become small enough to warrant the niche sales that will result.

Enjoy what we have now and don't give up hope. And keep rattling the cage on sites like HTF.
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post #115 of 591
2/14/12 at 6:59pm
I just saw that the first season of Maverick is slated to be released on May 29th. This should be good news for you guys

David
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post #116 of 591
2/14/12 at 7:26pm
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by David Weicker View Post

I just saw that the first season of Maverick is slated to be released on May 29th. This should be good news for you guys


 

I'm very glad for fans of Maverick.  The big thing with this news is that Warner Bros is releasing this as a pressed disc set and not through the Archives.  The timing of this announcement at TVShowsonDVD.com, set right alongside the updated news about the F.B.I. S2 sets coming from the WBA, is a perfect example of how big the difference is in pricing.  The complete season of Maverick is going to be set at $39.98, which means the conscientious buyer will be able to get this set for around $30 at release, and probably at $20-$25 shortly thereafter.  On the other hand, if a person wanted to own the complete F.B.I. (season 2) they'd be paying a minimum of $75+ dollars at release, with little chance of that price diving much early on.  That's a massive difference and illustrates the biggest problem I have with the Archive program in general.  And that doesn't even take into account the pressed vs burned disc issue.  But yes, the Maverick news is a nice addition to what is clearly a dwindling breed - b/w TV on DVD.

 

 

Gary "I'm not a big fan of Maverick (could have added this title to my collection a long time ago via Encore Western) so this particular news is only so-so for me" O.

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post #117 of 591
2/14/12 at 8:10pm
Obviously, the fact that Warner wanted to do this as a non-Archive title accounts for why it's taken this long to do it. Glad to hear it's coming out.

"The FBI" OTOH, I paid extra to get it right away via overnight shipping. I still see no quality difference issue on the pressed vs. burned issue and as I've said before, the Archive pricing is the same as what other MOD archive programs have done with TV series (like MGM which isn't even giving us anything any longer)
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post #118 of 591
2/15/12 at 7:47am
It may not have happened to everyone yet, but there's definitely a quality issue with MODs compared to regular discs. I've had technical problems already with one disc of the mini-series A Death In California and that sort of thing happens extremely rarely with normal release discs. But it's good to see they're still doing some TV shows the right way, like Maverick, though I thought Logan's Run was an odd but welcome choice. The price is also ridiculously high for an inferior product, and sometimes I can't help but feel it's a bit like bootlegs with an official stamp on. If they think there's not enough fans of classic TV out there anymore, they're basing that on a blatant lie or misconception then. Pricing and discs need to improve, so to speak, or I fear archive lines and manufacturers will inevitably run into more complaints along the way.
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post #119 of 591
2/15/12 at 11:18am
I have had just one Warner Archive disc go bad on me out of dozens purchased. That remains a lower ratio than the failure rate I got from pressed double sided discs. I also deal with DVD-R on a regular basis in the trade hobby and all you need to have is a good quality brand to guarantee long life. I've seen no indication of substandard material used for these releases.

Warner Archive has brought a lot of catalog material to the forefront in a good presentation that IMO would never have seen the light of day otherwise and the Archive program has the benefit of also guaranteeing that later releases for a TV series will continue and I don't have to live in fear over a stalled title.
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post #120 of 591
2/15/12 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_Ray View Post

I think if we give Warner Bros. time that eventually everything they own will be available via MOD. At the rate they are going with theatrical films, that seems to be the case, so why should their TV holdings be any different? A couple of weeks ago they released a handful of film titles from the early talkie 1930 era -- obscure titles with few stars that are recognizable today -- and they must be selling because they do this fairly regularly. Virtually nobody is still alive that has any nostalgia for titles like "Man to Man" and "The Woman Racket" and I don't think they've even gotten much, if any, airtime on TCM. Obviously, the people in charge of choosing films to be released have a different agenda and a different target audience than those who are choosing the TV shows, but I still think that given enough time, most titles will become available through whatever means of access becomes the standard. Hopefully, the 50s TV titles Warners owns will become the new undiscovered gems by the next generation mining the vaults.
And as successful as Warners has been with the program, can the other studios not afford to exploit their catalog holdings? The only thing that has to happen is for the costs associated with releasing the product to become small enough to warrant the niche sales that will result.
Enjoy what we have now and don't give up hope. And keep rattling the cage on sites like HTF.

Unfortunately, theatrical films are held in higher regard than TV shows, which to this day are not given the same importance. That's why they would think nothing of releasing obscure 80 years old movies with no name performers but would not likely do the same for a similar TV series. The thinking always seems to be that a movie, no matter how old or how obscure, can always stand on its own merit, but a television series has to have some kind of hook to draw in the market. Either a name star, a connection to a film or a remake, or some other catch. Otherwise, forget about it.
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