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Is the b&w era of TV on DVD slowly coming to an end?

post #1 of 591
1/12/12 at 7:30am
Thread Starter 

I was just reading a couple of the threads here about how happy some were with the upcoming release schedule and it hit me that most of the excitement was about shows that ran in the 70's or beyond.  Other than a few titles coming from Timeless (thank God for that company), and one or two coming from outfits like Shout, MPI or Warners, it looks like 50's and early 60's TV - my favorite era of television - is slowly coming to a close.  Shout in particular has really swung toward 70's material with the upcoming releases of Police Woman, S.W.A.T., Kojak, Police Story, The Rookies, and Adam-12.  Here Come the Brides is right there as well, and then there's Webster and Designing Women which are 80's shows.  CBS/Paramount is releasing Laverne & Shirley, Father Dowling, Mannix, Mission Impossible and probably some others I'm missing. Uni is going with Night Gallery, while Warners is bringing us Scarecrow & Mrs. King, Family Matters, Eight is Enough and Logan's Run. 

 

Now, I want to be clear that I'm happy for fans of these shows.  This is not meant to be a negative post about these series.  I will be picking up a couple myself.  It's just that most of them do not appeal to me.  The era of the 70's overall doesn't appeal to me - with a few exceptions.  And while we do have a few b&w classics that are lined up, with a few more set to be announced soon, the release pattern is definitely swerving away from the older material.  No question about that in my mind.  In fact, if it were not for Timeless striking that great deal with Universal the 50's/60's portion of my collection would probably have been cut in half last year.  They've been a real life-saver in my book.  And it's clear that but for them again this year (and I do know Timeless has more 50's/60's material in store for us in coming months) I'd be up a creek waiting for the shows I'm most interested in.  CBS, Shout, and others will undoubtedly offer a few titles from the golden era of TV, but overall it looks like studios are definitely moving further and further away from the b&w stuff.  There are still a few things coming that I'll pick up.  Just not nearly as many as in years past, nor as many as I'd like to see.  As I said in another thread - Oh well, it was a good run while it lasted.

 

 

Gary "at least my wallet is getting a well-deserved rest" O.  biggrin.gif


Edited by Gary OS - 1/12/12 at 7:42am
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post #2 of 591
1/12/12 at 7:43am
I believe your observation is right Gary. There is an obvious slow down in truly "vintage" TV series, but hopefully there will be enough releases to keep you entertained. I'm not sure what particular shows you are still hoping to see but I hope they at least continue to trickle out even if at a slower rate than you would like. I think as with everything, it is driven by money and how many sets they believe can be sold. As the TV on DVD market continues to tighten, obscure shows from any era will have a tough time seeing release and the older they are, the worse it will be.
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post #3 of 591
1/12/12 at 7:44am
I think b & w TV on pressed DVD has been dead since late 2010. Some smaller companies have tried to continue it but with mediocre sales are now moving on. However I think it will definately continue with DVD-r releases.
Warner archive should have a big year this year for b & w TV shows. They are continuing Cheyenne already and should have at least one more season later this year. The Gallant Men is promised for this year. At least two of the following classic western tv shows should see release later this year once music rights are cleared up: Maverick, Sugarfoot, Bronco, Lawman, Colt 45. I would also expect another surprise b & w show or two this year from Warner archive.
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post #4 of 591
1/12/12 at 8:18am
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Montytc View Post

I believe your observation is right Gary. There is an obvious slow down in truly "vintage" TV series, but hopefully there will be enough releases to keep you entertained.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not really complaining as much as I am making an observation about the release trends.  I've got plenty on the shelf already and there will be several releases this year that I'll be interested in.  No doubt about that.  A few have already been officially announced, and I'm confident more are coming (the crystal ball helps in this department - wink, wink).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Korstick View Post

I think b & w TV on pressed DVD has been dead since late 2010. Some smaller companies have tried to continue it but with mediocre sales are now moving on. However I think it will definately continue with DVD-r releases.


I'm still not sure what to think about the WBA stuff.  The only thing I've observed is that the system moves very, very slowly with releases.  And unfortunately, on top of that, Warners doesn't have a ton of material I'm personally interested in.  They have some series, but not a lot.  Most of the westerns you mentioned, in particular, don't do much for me.  And the one or two that I do like I've already secured from Encore.  Not sure why it is, but I've just never been a huge fan of their western material even though I'm a huge western genre fan in general.  I would be interested in Dr. Kildare, but I have serious doubts about when that one would come down the pike.  Right now the best shot I have with them is the Ron Ely Tarzan series.  Time will tell.

 

 

Gary "hopefully we get some update on Route 66 soon" O.

 

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post #5 of 591
1/12/12 at 9:21am
Gary I have to disagree with you on a couple points. First, I'll admit that my standard of what I classify as "vintage" TV is different from yours because to me the entire 70s is part of that equation overall with the earlier period so anytime I see more 70s movement to me, that indicates things are still thriving overall. (By contrast, I can count on one hand the number of post-1980 titles unreleased or stalled that I'd still get at this point)

But second, I think it does have to be acknowledged that in years past collectively there have been *fewer* 70s shows released to completion on DVD than there were 60s shows. I remember a couple years ago here compiling a list of all completed 60s titles (and fudging a bit to include Twilight Zone) and it outnumbered completed 70s titles considerably. It just seems to me that eventually the law of averages have to dictate some measure of catch-up once we have all of the most familiar titles of the earlier period accounted for.

And even there, it seems to me that there is still a lot of thriving in the earlier periods of which you speak. "Car 54?" Finished. "My Living Doll"? Finally coming. Good prospects for finishing Route 66, and we are also seeing movement on Donna Reed, Hazel, the finishing of Steve Canyon, and the Warner Archive I am confidant will deliver on more titles from its library and fill another void. At the moment the one early 60s title that is driving me up a wall in terms of being stalled is "Burke's Law" which IMO MUST be finished to make this era truly complete from my standpoint. If that gets done, then I'm just about at the contentment standpoint. But overall, I think the volume is still quite impressive for one to program his own network and isn't quite at the point you think it is.

Just my two cents there.
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post #6 of 591
1/12/12 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS View Post

     Quote:

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not really complaining as much as I am making an observation about the release trends.  I've got plenty on the shelf already and there will be several releases this year that I'll be interested in.  No doubt about that.  A few have already been officially announced, and I'm confident more are coming (the crystal ball helps in this department - wink, wink).


I'm still not sure what to think about the WBA stuff.  The only thing I've observed is that the system moves very, very slowly with releases.  And unfortunately, on top of that, Warners doesn't have a ton of material I'm personally interested in.  They have some series, but not a lot.  Most of the westerns you mentioned, in particular, don't do much for me.  And the one or two that I do like I've already secured from Encore.  Not sure why it is, but I've just never been a huge fan of their western material even though I'm a huge western genre fan in general.  I would be interested in Dr. Kildare, but I have serious doubts about when that one would come down the pike.  Right now the best shot I have with them is the Ron Ely Tarzan series.  Time will tell.


Gary "hopefully we get some update on Route 66 soon" O.

Gary you are correct that the archives have been frustratingly slow so far but things have been picking up as well as some prices starting to drop a bit. Like Cheyenne season 2 was originally 2 parts at $34.95 too much even for a fan of the show and a supporter of the archives like me. But after they redid it on dual layer dvd-r's it was released as a single season for $49.95 which I got on sale for $34.99.
Here are a couple of things to keep in mind with the archives:
1.) They were intially slow as they were waiting for Dual Layered DVD-r capability.
2.) They have only been around since the beginning of 2009 and have been grwoing every year so they are increasing the number of titles released every month.
3.) They have a huge amount a varying titles to release and keep up with to keep all the fans happy. They are releasing old movies, some tv movies, Hanna Barbera tiles, TV titles from the 50's and 60's as well as the 70's and on.
So as they are growing I think we will see more tv titles and more follow up seasons in the future.

As another big western fan I'm surprised you don't care much for the Warner Westerns. I had previously only seen Maverick but now after seeing Cheyenne and a few episodes of Lawman I enjoy their TV westerns alot. and look forward to seeing the other series They have a bigger feel to them then other TV westerns they seem more like a Warner movie then a TV show.
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post #7 of 591
1/12/12 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Korstick View Post

I think b & w TV on pressed DVD has been dead since late 2010. Some smaller companies have tried to continue it but with mediocre sales are now moving on. However I think it will definately continue with DVD-r releases.
Warner archive should have a big year this year for b & w TV shows. They are continuing Cheyenne already and should have at least one more season later this year. The Gallant Men is promised for this year. At least two of the following classic western tv shows should see release later this year once music rights are cleared up: Maverick, Sugarfoot, Bronco, Lawman, Colt 45. I would also expect another surprise b & w show or two this year from Warner archive.


I'm hoping the two will be Sugarfoot, Bronco, or Colt .45. Thanks to Encore Westerns, I have the entire Maverick and Lawman, as well as Bat Masterson , The Rifleman, The Virginian, and Cimarron Strip. Thank God for Encore Westerns, and they continue to feed us great shows like Gunsmoke, Wagon Train, and Rawhide. TMG is the lone studio that is totally committed to that era, and will soon bring us more Laramie, The Virginian, Tales of Well Fargo (I hope), Outlaws, Wagon Train, and more I hope. While that era has slowed down, there are still many more, e.g. Hawaiian Eye, 77 Sunset Strip, Bourbon St. Beat, The Gallant Men, Mr. Novak, Ben Casey, Dr. Kildare, Channing, The Lueienant, The Lineup, The Trials of O'Brien, East Side/West Side, The Defenders, Cain's Hundred, Bus Stop, and Many, Many more that conceivably, could still sell very well to the right group of customers. The real question is: Will the controlling studios either license these out at a reasonable price to willing "niche" studios, or make them available on demand, and is it economically feasible, as the target audience continues to erode due to the march of time.
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post #8 of 591
1/12/12 at 11:37am
I wonder if the biggest headaches will be the WB Detective Shows (and let's include "Roaring '20" in there,too!) because of the music performances - there's usually one (sometimes more as in the case of Hawaiian Eye, Surfside 6 and Roaring '20s with a lead character who performs in every episode!) - The Western shows the issues are just background music!
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post #9 of 591
1/12/12 at 11:55am
It seems strange to me that Timeless has found a profitable niche in Westerns (mainly) but no one seems willing to try the B&W sitcoms of the '50s that were so popular in their day: I Married Joan, My Little Margie, Our Miss Brooks, The Life of Riley, Love That Bob .... you know the list. I'm starting to accept the fact that there will never be Season Sets of those series, and I'm not sure why. I'd grab those things faster than Chris Christie grabbing food at a buffet, and I can't be the only old geezer in the world who would.
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post #10 of 591
1/12/12 at 11:59am
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Lugoff View Post

I'd grab those things faster than Chris Christie grabbing food at a buffet, and I can't be the only old geezer in the world who would.


laugh.gif

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post #11 of 591
1/12/12 at 5:14pm
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack P View Post

Gary I have to disagree with you on a couple points. First, I'll admit that my standard of what I classify as "vintage" TV is different from yours because to me the entire 70s is part of that equation overall with the earlier period so anytime I see more 70s movement to me, that indicates things are still thriving overall. (By contrast, I can count on one hand the number of post-1980 titles unreleased or stalled that I'd still get at this point)
But second, I think it does have to be acknowledged that in years past collectively there have been *fewer* 70s shows released to completion on DVD than there were 60s shows. I remember a couple years ago here compiling a list of all completed 60s titles (and fudging a bit to include Twilight Zone) and it outnumbered completed 70s titles considerably.
But overall, I think the volume is still quite impressive for one to program his own network and isn't quite at the point you think it is.
Just my two cents there.

 

 

A couple of counter-points, Jack.  First, I specifically mentioned b/w shows in the title so whether or not our definition of "Vintage" is a little different isn't really the issue in this thread.  As to your second point, again I'd say that my post was specifically about releases in general, not simply shows being completed.  I agree that shows from the 60's have seen completion more so than those from the 70's.  But I wasn't talking about completions.  I was talking about b/w shows.  And the reality is that we are seeing a slowdown in that department.  There's just no doubt about it.  Apart from Timeless, which really did a phenomenal job last year with b/w series, we aren't seeing the same output we have in the past.  Shout in particular has really switched gears and is focusing more on 70's shows than anything b/w.  And just to head off any thought that the slowdown is because there's not much 50's and early 60's material left to mine, I need only point you to Joe's post below.  There are still plenty of older series that could be restarted, see first time season set releases, or see first time anything releases!  So I'm sticking to my guns here.  smile.gif

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Korstick View Post

Gary you are correct that the archives have been frustratingly slow so far but things have been picking up as well as some prices starting to drop a bit. Like Cheyenne season 2 was originally 2 parts at $34.95 too much even for a fan of the show and a supporter of the archives like me. But after they redid it on dual layer dvd-r's it was released as a single season for $49.95 which I got on sale for $34.99.
So as they are growing I think we will see more tv titles and more follow up seasons in the future.
As another big western fan I'm surprised you don't care much for the Warner Westerns. I had previously only seen Maverick but now after seeing Cheyenne and a few episodes of Lawman I enjoy their TV westerns alot. and look forward to seeing the other series They have a bigger feel to them then other TV westerns they seem more like a Warner movie then a TV show.


 

Randy, I know you are passionate about the Archive program and I've bought a few things here and there.  But overall I have to say that the big negative for me is not only slowness of release (which may, or may not, change in the near future), but also the price-point.  I hear you that sometimes the prices come down, but on average they are still too expensive for my liking.  And on top of that, most of the WB westerns have been available on Encore for a while now.  I like Lawman and have that one in my collection.  But for whatever reason I see most of the WB westerns the exact opposite of you.  I find that they sometimes get too cookie-cutter for my liking.  And the other issue I have with some of them is the use of studio sets instead of being filmed on location with spacious, real scenery in the background.  That's why I love Rawhide, HGWT and Big Valley so much.  It's a pleasure just seeing the beautiful, real outdoors in many scenes with those shows.  For some reason the WB westerns (and this also applies often to their action/detective shows from the same era) often leave me feeling claustrophobic.  It's funny because I have the same experience when I watch Abbott & Costello films.  Although MGM would give the boys bigger and more extravagant studio sets, I always preferred the Universal films because they utilized more on-location settings.  And at least when they were filming something that was supposed to be taking place outdoors in open spots, I felt it.  With the MGM films, everything was too "tinsely" for my liking.  Some of the WB TV shows come off the same way for me.  But to each his own.

 

 

Gary "good discussion, guys" O. 

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post #12 of 591
1/13/12 at 6:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Lugoff View Post

It seems strange to me that Timeless has found a profitable niche in Westerns (mainly) but no one seems willing to try the B&W sitcoms of the '50s that were so popular in their day: I Married Joan, My Little Margie, Our Miss Brooks, The Life of Riley, Love That Bob .... you know the list. I'm starting to accept the fact that there will never be Season Sets of those series, and I'm not sure why. I'd grab those things faster than Chris Christie grabbing food at a buffet, and I can't be the only old geezer in the world who would.

Well, I will get in line behind you, in case you leave any scraps.smile.gif I would love to have those shows you mention represented in my collection.
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post #13 of 591
1/13/12 at 7:12am
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Montytc View Post

Well, I will get in line behind you, in case you leave any scraps.smile.gif I would love to have those shows you mention represented in my collection.


You and me both, Tim.  smile.gif

 

The fact is there are still many, many b/w series that haven't been released yet.  Some have had public domain or "best of" type releases, but quite a few have not had any season set releases.  I'm hoping Ozzie & Harriet really does make it.  At this point it's at the top of my Holy Grail list since there have been no season set releases.  I have the Mill Creek set, and a few Shout sets (with cut prints) to hold me over, but I'd love to see this show treated with the respect it deserves.  There are still many 50's/60's shows that are languishing in vaults.  It would be a mistake for anyone to think otherwise.

 

 

Gary "guess I'm an old geezer as well" O. 

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post #14 of 591
1/13/12 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS View Post

     Quote:


A couple of counter-points, Jack.  First, I specifically mentioned b/w shows in the title so whether or not our definition of "Vintage" is a little different isn't really the issue in this thread.  As to your second point, again I'd say that my post was specifically about releases in general, not simply shows being completed.  I agree that shows from the 60's have seen completion more so than those from the 70's.  But I wasn't talking about completions.  I was talking about b/w shows.  And the reality is that we are seeing a slowdown in that department.  There's just no doubt about it.  Apart from Timeless, which really did a phenomenal job last year with b/w series, we aren't seeing the same output we have in the past.  Shout in particular has really switched gears and is focusing more on 70's shows than anything b/w.  And just to head off any thought that the slowdown is because there's not much 50's and early 60's material left to mine, I need only point you to Joe's post below.  There are still plenty of older series that could be restarted, see first time season set releases, or see first time anything releases!  So I'm sticking to my guns here.  smile.gif



 


 
Randy, I know you are passionate about the Archive program and I've bought a few things here and there.  But overall I have to say that the big negative for me is not only slowness of release (which may, or may not, change in the near future), but also the price-point.  I hear you that sometimes the prices come down, but on average they are still too expensive for my liking.  And on top of that, most of the WB westerns have been available on Encore for a while now.  I like Lawman and have that one in my collection.  But for whatever reason I see most of the WB westerns the exact opposite of you.  I find that they sometimes get too cookie-cutter for my liking.  And the other issue I have with some of them is the use of studio sets instead of being filmed on location with spacious, real scenery in the background.  That's why I love Rawhide, HGWT and Big Valley so much.  It's a pleasure just seeing the beautiful, real outdoors in many scenes with those shows.  For some reason the WB westerns (and this also applies often to their action/detective shows from the same era) often leave me feeling claustrophobic.  It's funny because I have the same experience when I watch Abbott & Costello films.  Although MGM would give the boys bigger and more extravagant studio sets, I always preferred the Universal films because they utilized more on-location settings.  And at least when they were filming something that was supposed to be taking place outdoors in open spots, I felt it.  With the MGM films, everything was too "tinsely" for my liking.  Some of the WB TV shows come off the same way for me.  But to each his own.


Gary "good discussion, guys" O. 

Thanks for the reply Gary I understand where you are coming from now. Its funny we both are Western TV fans and Abbott and Costello fans but have different taste otherwise. I love all the A &C films and while I like the Universal films simply because some of their best and funniest films were made there, but I consider the MGM films special because they only made 3 and they were bigger budgeted. I really like well made studio sets as I appreciate the work that goes into to them and feel they add a dimension of escapism to a film if appropriate like the old comedy teams, westerns, sci-fi or horror. If its more of a serious drama then the studio sets don't work for me. So I do like the studio sets on the warner westerns. But I also appreciate the real outdoor scenary in westerns as you do but I feel that works better in color and even better then that in widescreen.
I have encore westerns but can't watch most of the shows as I am saving them knowing that they will look a lot better on DVD if and when released. Even if I recorded them I would never watch them just never like the compression and it would always bother me knowing something better is available. Coming from Laserdisc in the eighties to DVD in the 90's I'm too spoiled on quality prints now. I really enjoyed the 1st season of HGWT but lost interest in the 2nd season because the prints on that show are so poor. I may pick up season 3 at some point. Rawhide I stopped after season 1. Prints were better on this one and being an Eastwood fan I expected to love it but I didn't. I do like it but not as much as I expected. Gunsmoke I really like and the prints are great. I like Big Valley and its unfortunate they stopped that one. I appreciate and am grateful for Timeless but also frustrated with many of their releases because I know they do not have the budget to restore and remaster the shows. The Virginian was remastered and I have really gotten into that show. Laramie I really like now also but I'm sad the prints are poor on that one. I have also started Wagon Train and Wells Fargo and like both of these and the prints are pretty good on these. I'm interested in Tall Man, Cimarron City and some others from Timeless but its always scary never knowing about the quality of the prints but I realise they will never be released otherwise.
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post #15 of 591
1/13/12 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Korstick View Post


I have encore westerns but can't watch most of the shows as I am saving them knowing that they will look a lot better on DVD if and when released. Even if I recorded them I would never watch them just never like the compression and it would always bother me knowing something better is available. Coming from Laserdisc in the eighties to DVD in the 90's I'm too spoiled on quality prints now. I really enjoyed the 1st season of HGWT but lost interest in the 2nd season because the prints on that show are so poor. I may pick up season 3 at some point. Rawhide I stopped after season 1. Prints were better on this one and being an Eastwood fan I expected to love it but I didn't. I do like it but not as much as I expected. Gunsmoke I really like and the prints are great. I like Big Valley and its unfortunate they stopped that one. I appreciate and am grateful for Timeless but also frustrated with many of their releases because I know they do not have the budget to restore and remaster the shows. The Virginian was remastered and I have really gotten into that show. Laramie I really like now also but I'm sad the prints are poor on that one. I have also started Wagon Train and Wells Fargo and like both of these and the prints are pretty good on these. I'm interested in Tall Man, Cimarron City and some others from Timeless but its always scary never knowing about the quality of the prints but I realise they will never be released otherwise.

Have you seen the TMG release of Season 1? The print quality is really not bad at all. I know the TMG prints of Seasons 3&4 were pretty poor, washed out messes, but the newly found season one prints are of massively better quality, and hoping the soon to be released season 2 will be as good.
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post #16 of 591
1/13/12 at 7:55am
I think a slowdown on monochrome shows is inevitable as we move further & further away with each year. Anyone who remembers the era of black & white would be at least in their late 40's , other than exposure to reruns.

There certainly are many, many black & white series which, sadly, I suspect will never see the light of day. The sitcoms already mentioned & the ZIV catalogue have never really been mined. Now & again we get an unexpected releae which lifts the spirits, Mike Hammer from last year being a good example.

I love the Warner westerns & detective shows , despite the noticeable lowish production values. I remain a little sceptical however that the archive will deliver. Unless we see some movement this year I suspect it will never happen. Probably 5 years too late anyhow.

On a brighter note , I understand Timeless are arranging a few more deals which will keep black & white fans happy this Summer.
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post #17 of 591
1/13/12 at 8:41am
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by silverking View Post

I think a slowdown on monochrome shows is inevitable as we move further & further away with each year. Anyone who remembers the era of black & white would be at least in their late 40's , other than exposure to reruns.
There certainly are many, many black & white series which, sadly, I suspect will never see the light of day. The sitcoms already mentioned & the ZIV catalogue have never really been mined. Now & again we get an unexpected releae which lifts the spirits, Mike Hammer from last year being a good example.
I love the Warner westerns & detective shows , despite the noticeable lowish production values. I remain a little sceptical however that the archive will deliver. Unless we see some movement this year I suspect it will never happen. Probably 5 years too late anyhow.
On a brighter note , I understand Timeless are arranging a few more deals which will keep black & white fans happy this Summer.


I'm with Chris on all these points.  He's spot on as far as I'm concerned.  We know the market for b/w shows are dwindling as each day passes.  That's a given as father time marches on.  I also agree that we likely won't ever see many of the well known sitcoms and ZIV shows, although a surprise release here and there does always brighten my day.  And while I'm not a huge fan of most of the WB westerns and detective series, I do like some of them and pricing often plays a part in what I will or will not purchase when it comes to these shows. 

 

Where I really think Chris hits the nail on the head is with his analysis/prediction about the future of the b/w Warners TV catalog.  I too take a more pessimistic view and think we are too late in the game to really see a huge amount of releases.  Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Very good to hear even more positive news about Timeless.  They are currently top dog in my book. 

 

 

Gary "I look forward to giving them a majority of my DVD buying money this year" O.

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post #18 of 591
1/13/12 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard V View Post

Have you seen the TMG release of Season 1? The print quality is really not bad at all. I know the TMG prints of Seasons 3&4 were pretty poor, washed out messes, but the newly found season one prints are of massively better quality, and hoping the soon to be released season 2 will be as good.

Laramie Season 1 is what I am currently watching and the episodes vary some are bad, some are acceptible and some are pretty good. I have found on some of the episodes it helps to switch from progressive to Interlaced on the DVD player. I hope Season 2 improves print quality. I also hope they re-issue Season 3 and 4 with new prints that they could now get from Universal. I will not buy the current ones as I understand they were made from private collectors VHS recordings and have poor prints and cut syndicated versions as a result.

From the increase in Warner Archives TV releases over the past 6 months and all their comments on their facebook page of their intentions to release a lot more in the future. I really see no reason to doubt them. After all if small companies like Timeless and Shout with limited resources can do it then why Can't a large company like Warner Archive with larger resources do it. There were many reasons as I already mentioned as to why they started slow but many of those things have now changed and we are seeing an increase as a result. Shortly after they mentioned they just cleared the music rights on Cheyenne Season 3 it was announced. At the same time they mentioned they were almost done clearing music rights on Sugarfoot so I suspect that will be announced soon.
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post #19 of 591
1/13/12 at 11:25am
It's clear that it simply doesn't have a market, whether we're talking about 50s shows or other segments.... the threshold of what will sell, coupled with so-so DVD sales etc limits this

However, I would think that fans of many, many programs not in print will find them available once the market truly shifts to streaming and DD.
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post #20 of 591
1/13/12 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS View Post

I was just reading a couple of the threads here about how happy some were with the upcoming release schedule and it hit me that most of the excitement was about shows that ran in the 70's or beyond.  Other than a few titles coming from Timeless (thank God for that company), and one or two coming from outfits like Shout, MPI or Warners, it looks like 50's and early 60's TV - my favorite era of television - is slowly coming to a close.  Shout in particular has really swung toward 70's material with the upcoming releases of Police Woman, S.W.A.T., Kojak, Police Story, The Rookies, and Adam-12.  Here Come the Brides is right there as well, and then there's Webster and Designing Women which are 80's shows.  CBS/Paramount is releasing Laverne & Shirley, Father Dowling, Mannix, Mission Impossible and probably some others I'm missing. Uni is going with Night Gallery, while Warners is bringing us Scarecrow & Mrs. King, Family Matters, Eight is Enough and Logan's Run. 

Now, I want to be clear that I'm happy for fans of these shows.  This is not meant to be a negative post about these series.  I will be picking up a couple myself.  It's just that most of them do not appeal to me.  The era of the 70's overall doesn't appeal to me - with a few exceptions.  And while we do have a few b&w classics that are lined up, with a few more set to be announced soon, the release pattern is definitely swerving away from the older material.  No question about that in my mind.  In fact, if it were not for Timeless striking that great deal with Universal the 50's/60's portion of my collection would probably have been cut in half last year.  They've been a real life-saver in my book.  And it's clear that but for them again this year (and I do know Timeless has more 50's/60's material in store for us in coming months) I'd be up a creek waiting for the shows I'm most interested in.  CBS, Shout, and others will undoubtedly offer a few titles from the golden era of TV, but overall it looks like studios are definitely moving further and further away from the b&w stuff.  There are still a few things coming that I'll pick up.  Just not nearly as many as in years past, nor as many as I'd like to see.  As I said in another thread - Oh well, it was a good run while it lasted.


Gary "at least my wallet is getting a well-deserved rest" O.  biggrin.gif
I don't know. Shout has released Dennis, Hazel and Donna Reed. A lot of what Shout does is dependent on their suppliers. If CBS/Paramount started to license, I think we would see a lot of B&W shows. As for 1970s shows, I wish Shout would swing towards McCloud.
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post #21 of 591
1/13/12 at 2:33pm
Frankly, I'd like to see Shout finish what they started in regards to certain late 60s programs, namely "Ironside".
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post #22 of 591
1/13/12 at 5:56pm
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeDoakes View Post

I don't know. Shout has released Dennis, Hazel and Donna Reed.


Shout hasn't release Donna Reed.  MPI is the company that's restarted that series after Virgil Films had abandoned it.

 

Randy, we definitely prefer different settings.  While I do enjoy "A&C in Hollywood" a lot, over all I like the Universal films far more than the MGM ones.  Added "tinsel" has rarely done anything for me, and I'll take Rawhide and HGWT over any of the WB westerns every day of the week and twice on Sundays.  It's not even close in my book.  But to each his own when it comes to these things.  And while I'm sure there is some difference in WBA release a/v quality and Encore a/v quality, it's just not important enough for me to pay the premium prices Warners has attached to them.

 

Overall I still agree with Chris that we are on the downside of b/w TV releases.  I hope those of you who are putting all your hopes and dreams into WBA see your wishes come true, but I'm going to want to see a little more from them before I start singing their praises as the savior of vintage TV on DVD.

 

 

Gary "Shout's not been perfect (which studio has?), but I've enjoyed their output over the last several years and really don't have any major complaints" O.

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post #23 of 591
1/13/12 at 9:09pm
Another area where we differ, Gary. I can never look at Shout as reliable at all after the stunts they've pulled on titles of greater interest to me (I'm feeling more relief than excitement that Adam-12 made it to the finish line). And no way in a million years would I make myself a slave to the nuisance of having to record programs off-air ever again as an alternative to a ready-made set. Just imagine the aggravation of one missed show in a run and fouling up the sequencing of the discs or some other catastrophe? Thank goodness those days are long over for me.
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post #24 of 591
1/13/12 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post

Another area where we differ, Gary. I can never look at Shout as reliable at all after the stunts they've pulled on titles of greater interest to me (I'm feeling more relief than excitement that Adam-12 made it to the finish line). And no way in a million years would I make myself a slave to the nuisance of having to record programs off-air ever again as an alternative to a ready-made set. Just imagine the aggravation of one missed show in a run and fouling up the sequencing of the discs or some other catastrophe? Thank goodness those days are long over for me.

And in a nutshell that's what it really comes down to in how each person views one of these company's, by how did they treat their personal favorites. If you don't really like westerns then Timeless will probably not be a first choice (yes they do other genre's, but that appears to be their niche). If WBA hasn't released a favorite then their releases are too slow and prices too high when less costly releases from others are competing for dollars. If a favorite wasn't treated as well as it could have been, well they are in the dog house and not to be easily forgiven (I can't think of any that haven't had a miss along the way). And that's why there are always going to be different opinions about how these companies are performing. Because we don't all share the same favorites.

For me, Timeless has done really well overall (I like westerns), even though some of their prints can be quite suspect sometimes. Shout has done really well overall (complete FKB, LITB, Patty Duke, seasons I wanted from Mister Ed and Dennis the Menace, and most notably a complete Barney Miller), even though a few seasons were based on cut sources. As for WBA, I'm still waiting on a must have to come from their vaults before giving them more consideration.

As for capturing one's own content that also depends on a person's outlook. Now I've only been doing it for probably a little over three years, where as you may have done it for much longer and tired of it. But I don't find it "slave" like to accomplish. Now technology has also improved. With a DVR, capture capability to a computer, editing software that doesn't re-encode for small changes like removing commercials, filtering software for removing unwanted tinting or hiss, authoring software to simplify menu creation, graphics software for manipulating menu backgrounds and case covers, I find I can create competitve sets to my liking in compared to what some of the smaller companies do (obviously like them I am limited to the source content provided). Of course, I'd rather buy commercial produced material when available in an attempt to get higher quality prints with no "bug" in the corner, but when not, I find this alternative much more satisfying then waiting for something not likely to come out.
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post #25 of 591
1/14/12 at 8:04am
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by smithb View Post


And in a nutshell that's what it really comes down to in how each person views one of these company's, by how did they treat their personal favorites. If you don't really like westerns then Timeless will probably not be a first choice (yes they do other genre's, but that appears to be their niche). If WBA hasn't released a favorite then their releases are too slow and prices too high when less costly releases from others are competing for dollars. If a favorite wasn't treated as well as it could have been, well they are in the dog house and not to be easily forgiven (I can't think of any that haven't had a miss along the way). And that's why there are always going to be different opinions about how these companies are performing. Because we don't all share the same favorites.
For me, Timeless has done really well overall (I like westerns), even though some of their prints can be quite suspect sometimes. Shout has done really well overall (complete FKB, LITB, Patty Duke, seasons I wanted from Mister Ed and Dennis the Menace, and most notably a complete Barney Miller), even though a few seasons were based on cut sources. As for WBA, I'm still waiting on a must have to come from their vaults before giving them more consideration.
As for capturing one's own content that also depends on a person's outlook. Now I've only been doing it for probably a little over three years, where as you may have done it for much longer and tired of it. But I don't find it "slave" like to accomplish. Now technology has also improved. With a DVR, capture capability to a computer, editing software that doesn't re-encode for small changes like removing commercials, filtering software for removing unwanted tinting or hiss, authoring software to simplify menu creation, graphics software for manipulating menu backgrounds and case covers, I find I can create competitve sets to my liking in compared to what some of the smaller companies do (obviously like them I am limited to the source content provided). Of course, I'd rather buy commercial produced material when available in an attempt to get higher quality prints with no "bug" in the corner, but when not, I find this alternative much more satisfying then waiting for something not likely to come out.


A-M-E-N to all of that, Brad!  I can't improve on what you have posted.  Perfect!!!

 

 

Gary "I make no bones about it - right now Timeless is top dog for me" O.

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post #26 of 591
1/14/12 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS View Post

 Randy, we definitely prefer different settings.  While I do enjoy "A&C in Hollywood" a lot, over all I like the Universal films far more than the MGM ones.  Added "tinsel" has rarely done anything for me, and I'll take Rawhide and HGWT over any of the WB westerns every day of the week and twice on Sundays.  It's not even close in my book.  But to each his own when it comes to these things.  And while I'm sure there is some difference in WBA release a/v quality and Encore a/v quality, it's just not important enough for me to pay the premium prices Warners has attached to them.

 



thumbsup.gif



Quote:
Originally Posted by smithb View Post
As for capturing one's own content that also depends on a person's outlook. Now I've only been doing it for probably a little over three years, where as you may have done it for much longer and tired of it. But I don't find it "slave" like to accomplish. Now technology has also improved. With a DVR, capture capability to a computer, editing software that doesn't re-encode for small changes like removing commercials, filtering software for removing unwanted tinting or hiss, authoring software to simplify menu creation, graphics software for manipulating menu backgrounds and case covers, I find I can create competitve sets to my liking in compared to what some of the smaller companies do (obviously like them I am limited to the source content provided). Of course, I'd rather buy commercial produced material when available in an attempt to get higher quality prints with no "bug" in the corner, but when not, I find this alternative much more satisfying then waiting for something not likely to come out.

thumbsup.gif
 

 

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post #27 of 591
1/14/12 at 12:22pm
Thread Starter 

Thanks, Glen.  I know we see the settings thing the same way!  smile.gif

 

 

Gary "take care, buddy" O.

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post #28 of 591
1/14/12 at 4:08pm
I'm not sure the B&W era of TV on DVD ever began, especially when compared to the color shows. I think it's just been drips and drabs. How many dramatic black and white series actually have been completed? The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits, Wanted Dead or Alive, Thriller, Combat!, and Man with a Camera. M Squad, Checkmate, Arrest and Trial, and Frontier Circus have been too, but sadly mostly in 16mm less than pristine prints. The BW episodes of The Fugitive and The Man from Uncle are also out there.

Gunsmoke, Perry Mason, Rawhide, The Untouchables, Route 66, The Naked City, Alfred Hitchcock Presents/Hour have never been completed. Obscure shows like The Millionaire, The Line-Up, The Detectives, The Defenders, Ben Casey, Dr. Kildare, Bus Stop, Adventures in Paradise, 87th Precinct, The Nurses, Saints and Sinners, East Side West Side, Twelve O'Clock High, The Eleventh Hour, Breaking Point, as well as all the WB shows have no chance of ever getting released to retail. The dramatic anthology shows like Playhouse 90, Westinghouse Studio One, Desilu Playhouse, Robert Montgomery Presents, General Electric Theater etc also have little chance of being released either.

At least the comedies have fared better, with The Honeymooners, I Love Lucy, Leave It to Beaver, Father Knows Best, Andy Griffith, Dick Van Dyke, Patty Duke all having been released.

But you will never get a complete picture of the b&w era of TV, at least not on (retail) DVD.
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post #29 of 591
1/14/12 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Lugoff View Post

It seems strange to me that Timeless has found a profitable niche in Westerns (mainly) but no one seems willing to try the B&W sitcoms of the '50s that were so popular in their day: I Married Joan, My Little Margie, Our Miss Brooks, The Life of Riley, Love That Bob .... you know the list. I'm starting to accept the fact that there will never be Season Sets of those series, and I'm not sure why. I'd grab those things faster than Chris Christie grabbing food at a buffet, and I can't be the only old geezer in the world who would.

For me, shows such as these are what I want to see on DVD. Add on some shows like The Jack Benny Show, the first couple of versions of Lassie, some of the anthology programs, Ozzie & Harriet, Sea Hunt, and several others and I'd be happy.

1960's is fairly well covered, but I'd love to see Green Acres finished, sets for The King Family Show, My Three Sons restarted properly (At least until Beverly Garland shows up, although I loved the addition of Tina Cole to the cast for the couple of seasons prior to that), Petticoat Junction (Especially the color seasons before Betty Jo marries, Bea Benaderet and Smiley Burnette passed away and Rufe Davis left), and probably a couple of others. Getting Daktari, at least, for a 1960s show that I enjoy.

1970's is surprisingly well covered for me. The 70's episodes of Adam-12, all of Emergency, all of The Waltons, all of M*A*S*H, and all of Little House (Sadly, with many problems) are on DVD. And the seasons of Happy Days and Laverne & Shirley that I want are out or will soon be out. Not much else from this decade I'd like to see except for proper releases of WKRP, which will never happen (I think this show started in 78 or 79). Even The Facts of Life, which technically started in the 70's, is nearly done for me (I really want season 6, then I'm probably done with it).

I can enjoy things like The Bob Newhart Show and The Mary Tyler Moore Show, but not enough to care to buy them. And most of the shows from the decade I detest (Any Norman Lear production, for instance). Give me a good black & white show from the 50's and the first half of the 1960's anyday.
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post #30 of 591
1/15/12 at 5:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoAmes View Post

For me, shows such as these are what I want to see on DVD. Add on some shows like The Jack Benny Show, the first couple of versions of Lassie, some of the anthology programs, Ozzie & Harriet, Sea Hunt, and several others and I'd be happy.

There was only one Lassie series. It lasted from 1954 to 1973. Lassie went through four owners during the series, and when it went into syndication whoever was in charge decided to "Split" the series into three. The first one, when the Miller Family owned Lassie, was called "Jeff's Collie". The second, with the Martin Family was called "Timmy and Lassie" and the final (Color) series was simply called "Lassie".

I was six years old when I was first introduced to this series, which was in its "Ranger" Years. I soon realised there were two other "Versions" out there which the stations in my area played on Saturday and Sunday Afternoons. I did not realise they were one complete series. Why? Because when they syndicated the series they LEFT OUT Season 4, where we are first introduced to "Timmy" who appears on the First Episode as a Child who has ran away from home, and who becomes Lassies owner after "Gramps" passes away and Jeff's Mother gets a new Job in another city. (A Couple, Paul and Ruth Martin, purchase the Farm and Adopt Timmy) as well as Seasons 9, 10 and 11 (In the first episode of Season 11 Paul Martin gets a Business oppurtunity in Australia. It is revealed that Ozzy-Land has a STRICT Quarentine Policy regarding the Importation of Animals, so the dawg ends up with the Rangers). Seasons 9 and 10 had several multi-part episodes where lassie spent time away from Timmy, during this time she was with people such as Truck Drivers, Military Personel and yes, Forest Rangers. These episodes were in fact "Experiments" to see who Lassie's New Owner would be (The Producers realised John Provost (Timmy) was growing up, and he had indicated he wanted to move on to other things (Tommy Rettig ("Jeff" had a simular phase earlier, which is how Timmy got in). The "Experiment" that got the most favorable review by the Audience determined Lassie's Fate). I finally got to see these "Lost" episodes only after seeing them via a method I refuse to answere on the grounds it might incriminate me. furious.gif
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