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Whatever works for you

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
A 1000x this:
http://www.marco.org/2011/11/28/whatever-works-for-you

thing is tho, I don't think people have a real good way of picking out what they want, and not only are the people trying to fill those needs bad at identifying the itches to scratch, they highlight the absolute worst things (specsmanship mostly) in trying to fulfill them. Witness the prolifaration of terrible ads made by anyone going against apple trying to boast about their tech edge when no real person gives a shit about that.

For better or worse you have to admit that no vendor on the planet helps people identify the roots of their needs and then provides the product to meet them. You can argue about them philosophically, less so about their prices today than ever, and about their lock in and easy obsolescence. But they get the WHY.

It just makes me wish that other companies would do the work and hit those needs for other parts of my life. Insurance. Banking. Home Theater. Cars. Housing. The government. I can dream, right?

Anyway, I can boggle all I want about why people who choose other products do so but I'm done trying to talk anyone into or out of anything any more. All I can do is say what works for me and why I like or dislike something. And to caution people from getting bogged down in the details or from trying so hard to get the best insane deal on whatever they do settle on that they will never be happy with it.
post #2 of 21
Thread Starter 
Then there's this:
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/17/2639938/so-what-phone-should-i-buy-and-other-unanswerable-questions
Quote:
"You know, honestly, just buy an iPhone."

And mind you, I'm not proud of saying that. I'm not trying to push Apple products, and I don't currently own an iPhone myself. Rather, it's a very selfish piece of advice: you see, by suggesting a phone to someone, you become, on some level, "on the hook" for that individual's post-purchase satisfaction. You're going to hear the good and the bad. You're going to get the late-night emails and instant messages asking what to do when Angry Birds freezes. And maybe — just maybe — this person is going to like you a little bit less if you recommend a phone they don't like.

By recommending an iPhone, I cover the broadest swath. I cover my butt. I know I'm not going to hear a complaint that you can't find Skype or "that Infinity Sword or whatever it's called that everyone is talking about." I also minimize the chance that you're going to be flustered by misbehaving apps. And, for many of my iTunes-using friends, it means I don't need to help you set up DoubleTwist. It's simply my path of least resistance to ensuring my advice seeker an acceptable smartphone experience with minimal ongoing technical support from me. (Of course, I might hear a complaint that they've shattered the back when they "only dropped it a few inches," but that's their problem, not mine.)

That's not to say I don't love Android... I do. The Galaxy Nexus is the best smartphone I've ever used (which is why it's in my pocket as I write this). But anyone who's used Android at length knows that it requires more care and feeding to make it great than iOS does. Spec-for-spec, Android's raw potential is greater — but it takes more elbow grease to get it there. It's no different from desktop operating systems for the past thirty-plus years. Different strokes for different folks.
post #3 of 21

OR this...

 

Just tell most of them they don't actually need a smartphone.  Better off saving the $30+tax+fees/month additional charges on top of the out-of-pocket device cost for something else instead... maybe even an iPad or a Kindle Fire, etc. smiley_wink.gif biggrin.gif

 

_Man_

 

post #4 of 21
I'm baffled by all the "Android is too hard to figure out" talk. Really, what intelligent non-technophobe thinks that? For me, it was pretty simple. I wanted:

A low monthly charge (around $30) with no contract, while still providing enough data and minutes to meet MY needs. That eliminates any Apple product immediately.

Once I got a look at the larger than 4 inch screens, I decided I wanted that too. Again, that eliminates Apple.

High resolution (800 x 400 or greater) is nice too.

Good processor speed.

That narrowed down the choices quite easily for me. I've had the HTC Sensation on Tmobile's 5gB, 100 minute plan for two months, and I'm very happy with it. The apps I use work just fine (again, I'm baffled by all the talk about the need for "technical support" to deal with "misbehaving apps").

Talk about the "need" for a smartphone is as meaningless as talk about whether one "needs" an Ipad, Kindle, Fire, Blu Ray, ad infinitum. I'm thrilled that I always have a phone, camera, book reader, GPS device, Internet Browser, HP calculator, traffic monitor, weather forecaster, price tracker, music player, etc, etc etc. in my pocket.

Note that how much "cachet" a device has figured NOWHERE in my thinking.
post #5 of 21
I crack up reading the phone forums and how people bash any phone that they do not own. I feel that either an Android or iPhone will meet the needs of just about anyone, but a lot of people seem to think a phone is a fashion statement as much as a tool.

Personally, I am on my second Android phone -- been using Androids about two years now. First was an HTC Eris, and current one is a Motorola Droid Razr. I do not find Android phones difficult to use, similar to Robert. While I may not like certain pre-installed apps that a manufacturer may bundle with the phone, I can always find a replacement app that I'm happy with. For example, Motorola's default email app was a little kludge (although it does work), but I'm quite content using K-9 Mail instead. I'm a technical person, though, so I acknowledge it's possible that complete technophobes may struggle with a Droid. Those same people may struggle with an iPhone, though, too.

I've been trying to talk my wife into getting an iPhone. She loves her iPod for both music and video, but is still using a regular cell phone. She does a lot of texting and would like to check her email when we travel, so I thought an iPhone would be a perfect "all in one" device for her. She's very resistant to change, though, so for now it's two separate devices for her until I can wear her down.
post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
You are kinda proving my point tho Scott, why wouldn't you recommend the Android to your wife instead if you love yours so much and she isn't invested in iPhone apps already???
post #7 of 21

Scott's issue is that his wife doesn't want a smartphone at all.  The iPhone's similarity to the iPod Touch is the only leverage he can use.

 

Whether or not to recommend an Android device for someone who actually wants a smartphone is the basis of Ziegler's piece.

 

 

post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanson View Post

Scott's issue is that his wife doesn't want a smartphone at all.  The iPhone's similarity to the iPod Touch is the only leverage he can use.

Exactly. Personally, I think any smartphone would meet her needs, but was trying to appeal to her emotional attachment to her iPod (it's a Nano with video, not a Touch) as a way to get her over the resistance to something new. My argument was "you love your iPod, and you love using your cell phone. How could you not love something that combines those two things?"

So far, I've struck out. laugh.gif

BTW, I own an iPad2 (got it for free after already owning an Android phone), and have two music iPods, so I'm not opposed to Apple products. However, i use Google for my email, contacts, and calendars, so an Android phone works better for me. I find it annoying that I can synch my Gmail email and calendar on the iPad, but not my contacts. There's certainly no technical reason it can't be done -- Yahoo contact synch is supported.

My wife has a Yahoo email account and contacts, so it really doesn't matter for her.
post #9 of 21

My wife just dropped her iPhone4.   She loved it (I have a 4 too) but we found that she used it zero for the data or the phone portion (she had less then 10 minutes on our cell phone plan last month) and used mostly her iPad2.   So, she changed back to a non-smart phone, and just uses her iPad2 for most of her stuff.   I don't mind, saves us on the billing, but I can see where that comes from.

post #10 of 21
Thread Starter 
I think you guys are off on the wrong target completely and a lot of you will be following Matt's experiences. Really 95% of the population doesn't -need- a smartphone, and pushing them towards one with the extra billing and upkeep it requires is going to make you the bad guy in the long run.

Eventually it will be as hard to buy a non smartphone as it is for my dad to buy a dumbphone that doesn't even have a camera or other doodads, which is what he really wants. Seriously a lot of people just want a phone, no text data apps camera or other bells and whistles. They know their needs better than we do, trying to evangelize to them otherwise is wrong. That's why I agree with Whatever Works the most. Even if someone doesn't want ANY of the available choices in a given product category I'm ok with that.
post #11 of 21
I'm not sure where the 95% comes from. As I see it, there are three categories of people regarding smartphones:

A. Those who want the features and are willing to pay both a high initial outlay and a high monthly cost.

B. Those who want the features, but are much more price sensitive than category A, ie won't pay a high monthly cost or a high initial outlay.

C. Those who aren't technologically savvy, or technophobes (my mother would fit in this category), and just want to talk.

Does category C really make up 95% of the population? I doubt it. Think of all the business users with (often subsidized) Blackberries, plus all the people using music players, digital cameras, tablets, wifi enabled laptops, etc. Using a smartphone would seem perfectly natural to them. It's always been the trend that more technology is incorporated into devices at lower cost over time, which means that more and more people in category B are going to buy and use smartphones. If a phone has a (gasp!) camera or music player or texting capabilities, etc. and is still CHEAP, why would anyone consider it a "problem" or " disadvantage" that it has such features? And if he happens to use such a capability and decides "hey, I like this", that's nice too.
Edited by RobertR - 12/30/11 at 11:04am
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Posten View Post

Really 95% of the population doesn't -need- a smartphone

Depending on how you define "need", you could even state that 100% of the population doesn't need one. After all, I'm almost 50 years old, and survived for most of my life without a smart phone -- in fact, for the majority of my life, I didn't even have a cell phone at yet somehow managed to muddle through life. eek.gif

Seriously, it's just a tool to make life a little more convenient. Whether it's worth the added cost is a decision for each person to make.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield View Post

Depending on how you define "need", you could even state that 100% of the population doesn't need one. After all, I'm almost 50 years old, and survived for most of my life without a smart phone -- in fact, for the majority of my life, I didn't even have a cell phone at yet somehow managed to muddle through life. eek.gif
Seriously, it's just a tool to make life a little more convenient. Whether it's worth the added cost is a decision for each person to make.

Agreed. I didn't know I "needed" an Android 10 months ago. For that matter, I couldn't say I "needed" the Internet 18 years ago, or Blu Ray 5 years ago, or my Pronto remote. But those things are damn nice to have.

"Need" is the wrong word to use.
Edited by RobertR - 12/30/11 at 1:52pm
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
Need is a mighty flexible word, working all the way from 'strong desire' to 'essential to life itself'.

At the low end you could even say 'is this feature on your purchase criteria, price dependent?' If they are interested in a feature, but the price makes it a go/no go decision that's still a need. An unfulfilled one but a need all the same.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Posten View Post

Need is a mighty flexible word, working all the way from 'strong desire' to 'essential to life itself'.
At the low end you could even say 'is this feature on your purchase criteria, price dependent?'
Emphasizing the "flexibility" or "range" of the word "need" makes it that much less supportable to say that 95% of people are outside that range.
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
Hmmm....
Quote:
Definition of NEED

1: necessary duty : obligation

2
a : a lack of something requisite, desirable, or useful
b : a physiological or psychological requirement for the well-being of an organism

3: a condition requiring supply or relief

4
: lack of the means of subsistence : poverty

Desirable or useful.... Not just requisite. Lots of flexibility there in M-W, not just from the nutter's experience.
Edit; Almost missed it, 2b covers exactly what I'm talking about! A psychological requirement!
post #17 of 21

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

I'm not sure where the 95% comes from. As I see it, there are three categories of people regarding smartphones:

A. Those who want the features and are willing to pay both a high initial outlay and a high monthly cost.

B. Those who want the features, but are much more price sensitive than category A, ie won't pay a high monthly cost or a high initial outlay.

C. Those who aren't technologically savvy, or technophobes (my mother would fit in this category), and just want to talk.

Does category C really make up 95% of the population? I doubt it. Think of all the business users with (often subsidized) Blackberries, plus all the people using music players, digital cameras, tablets, wifi enabled laptops, etc. Using a smartphone would seem perfectly natural to them. It's always been the trend that more technology is incorporated into devices at lower cost over time, which means that more and more people in category B are going to buy and use smartphones. If a phone has a (gasp!) camera or music player or texting capabilities, etc. and is still CHEAP, why would anyone consider it a "problem" or " disadvantage" that it has such features? And if he happens to use such a capability and decides "hey, I like this", that's nice too.
 

 

Don't know about the rather high "95%" (clearly very rough and perhaps exaggerated) guesstimate, but I would debate whether the average smartphone (at least up til very recently) would be "perfectly natural" to those folks who use the various more traditional CE devices.  Many such folks aren't very savvy about how they use such devices afterall much like how so many people never figured out how to use their cameras in anything other than Auto mode or how to program their VCRs before they moved along to DVD, etc.  And how many folks really know how to maintain -- let alone customize (w/out breaking stuff) -- their PCs/laptops?  Many of those folks are probably better off w/ something less powerful and/or less flexible so they don't go shooting themselves in the foot left and right w/ all the unnecessary stuff -- and some are just better off paying someone else to do much of the computing stuff for them (at least until technology advances into the Star Trek age perhaps).

 

Besides, although it seems nice and cool to have all those features packed into one slim portable much like a good swiss-army knife, not everyone's big on swiss-army knives either.  And that's besides whether even the best smartphone (for any particular person) can really be quite as good as the best swiss-army knife one can own.  Let's face it.  None of these smartphones will replace a tablet or a laptop or fullsize PC (to any great degree) at this stage in tech advancement.  None of them are as good as a separate camera for photos (and likely videos as well) although I suppose the average, auto-mode-only folk might not care.  And the list can go on to varying degrees.  So most folks will still end up finding a need to have more than just a smartphone to cover all those features anyway.  IMHO, the few things that a smartphone is really good at are quick on-the-go gaming and info lookup, music playback and email/texting/videophone/social networking type stuff -- and the latter is part of where having the built-in camera would be most useful besides any impromptu quick snapshots/video rather than having that completely replace a separate camera (at least for those of us who actually knows how to use a camera or cares about the quality).

 

"Need" is a loaded word of course.  But the point is smartphones aren't exactly free.  They still come w/ fairly substantial costs, so most folks will need to justify those costs until such become essentially negligible.  And that's besides the debate about whether Android-based offerings are generally recommendable to the average not-so-tech-savvy folk -- they can always pick iPhone, if they can justify the costs.

 

Personally, I think the KISS principle applies here, and probably much of the smartphone world still does not come close enough to satisfying that principle (and its implications) to make most -- maybe even the iPhone -- all that recommendable to the average folk.  Then again, if/when the average folk progresses to become part of the social networking crowd, yeah, I can see the smartphone becoming more of a "need" to justify the additional costs (over a not-so-smart-phone).

 

FWIW, my wife started using Facebook (on top of her usual email usage) some months ago, but she's still not feeling the vibe to justify the added costs of a smartphone -- she's amused though that I still don't have a Facebook account, but now have the Facebook app installed on my BB (w/ her account).  Like some of the others mentioned here, she really just wants a basic phone for the most part although she certainly wouldn't reject a virtually free iPhone either, if that's actually being offered.  Meanwhile, my mother rejected our offer to get her an iPad for a nice present.  She doesn't even want me to pay several extra dollars a month to upgrade her dial-up(!) internet access (that she uses very sparingly for the rare email and, ahem, virtually nonexistent web access) to Verizon's basic aDSL, LOL -- I try to convince her every few months about that, especially now that she's out of work and at home all the time, but she just doesn't see the point.  We even tried to sneak in some added incentive for her to migrate to broadband service when we bought her a new digital TV (instead of the iPad) w/ Netflix, Facebook, etc. apps built-in, but nada so far.  In her case, a smartphone just wouldn't do anyway because she just can't see well enough anymore to make much use of the essentially tiny display (even though she's not quite that old yet) -- and there are probably plenty of (babyboomer-and-older) folks like her in that regard who are not just being totally technophobic or the like...

 

_Man_

 

post #18 of 21
Thread Starter 
91 million people in the US use a smartphone according to Comscore.
http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events/Press_Releases/2011/12/comScore_Reports_November_2011_U.S._Mobile_Subscriber_Market_Share
That's about 30% of the total population if you figure there's 300 million Americans.

So yeah, 95% might have been a little high on my end =p Still, about 2/3rds of the US doesn't have a smartphone, tho that is diminishing rapidly. There's an awful lot of people who don't have one yet, and among them is a good percentage of those who don't WANT one. My position is that it really shouldn't be something to evangelize. Either someone groks the value of it and wants one or they don't. Pushing them towards it when it has all the costs involved doesn't seem humane to me.

Back to the fanboy thing, Marco sez:
Quote:
I used to attempt to defend myself against accusations of being a fanboy, but I just don’t care anymore. It’s impossible to express a useful opinion to any significantly sized audience without inadvertently angering someone enough to hurl irrational insults at you.

If given the choice between expressing an opinion and being useful, or pleasing most people most of the time by saying everything is great even when it isn’t, I’ll choose expressing an opinion every time. And if that results in derogatory feedback, so be it.

http://www.marco.org/2012/01/04/fanboy-theory

I agree that it's better to have an opinion than to not, but there's a fine line between being a fan and being a warrior fighting for the rightness of any given product.
post #19 of 21

Actually, what I'm curious about is how so many teenagers and seemingly low-income folks (particularly as I see them in the NYC subways) manage to afford smartphones.  I guess maybe some of them are going w/ RobertR's approach and sacrificing phone minutes in exchange for all the other smartphone stuff (and going contract-free).  Still, not sure how most of them can manage to keep under 100min (or similar), if they go that route, unless most of their calls are in-network for free I guess.  I suppose some of the teenagers just have parents w/ sizeable wallets as well.

 

Then again, maybe that's just partially indicative of how/why we're currently (still) experiencing the biggest economic downturn of most of our lifetimes...

 

Actually, come to think of it, perhaps, a lot of these folks are really using their smartphones as some sort of permanent substitute for computer+ISP -- maybe they never even owned (general purpose) computers before -- on top of being their main, personal entertainment center w/ built-in camera + phone.  They could be the first demographic to bypass traditional personal computing in favor of smartphones, PDAs, tablets, etc.  For instance, my brother is on his 2nd (or 3rd?) smartphone now and also shares a 3G iPad w/ his wife, but he rarely, if ever, uses a traditional computer (and doesn't even use email).  And there are probably more people like him than like me...

 

_Man_

 


Edited by ManW_TheUncool - 1/5/12 at 11:28am
post #20 of 21
Thread Starter 
I can't find it but there was a study on just that a few months back. It's counter intuitive, you'd think those who have less money would spend what they do have buying more and better of the basics, but it turns out that the less money you have the more likely you are to spend it on luxuries like smart phones, fancy clothes and high calorie sweets as ways to take the sting out of actually being poor. It's not just trying to keep up with the joneses, there was real psychological plusses to these folks to have a few luxuries even tho every other area of their lives were stressed thin.
post #21 of 21

I guess "different strokes for different folks" most definitely applies here...

 

 

BTW, my mother recently got comp-ed this Coby-brand Kyros 8" Android (Gingerbread) tablet, which seems to have similar underlying hardware as the old NookColor (sans the better display).  She was, of course, told how nice it would be for watching TV/movies, listening to music, checking email and surfing the web, etc. etc., but apparently, nobody made it clear to her (until I did of course) that she actually needs decent-to-great broadband service over WiFi (plus the cost of Netflix, et al) for most of that to become a reality -- ain't gonna happen over 40Kbps dial-up (on her noisy? line).  And yeah, she also thought she was basically getting an iPad for free -- and I had to explain the diff between an iPad and what she got multiple times.  Couldn't get it to connect w/ my WAP-secured WiFi at home anyway, so maybe it's just as well that she doesn't have broadband+WiFi at home (or I'd be stuck trying to get the thing to work at her place). rolleyes.gif

 

Finally bought a $10 program so I could spend a couple hours putting a movie on her tablet.  Had actually been trying the program out a little before, but this finally got me to pay up and use it for real although I hadn't expected to spend so much time doing it.  Not sure how much use I'll get out of it since the conversion process takes so long and I never got its previous (trial) version to work w/ most any Disney animated titles -- that plus my DVD collection has been steadily shrinking anyway although it supposedly works for BDs (w/ additional software) as well.

 

As for our NookColor, got around to updating the software to more closely match the Nook Tablet (sans the better processor+memory) -- the underlying Android OS was upgraded from Froyo to Gingerbread.  Haven't tried the Flixster app w/ UltraViolet yet, but the already fairly weak email client seems hosed now -- it keeps trying to refresh the entire recent email list (reacquiring any recent emails deleted from the device), instead of doing it incrementally (as in a proper email synch), whenever it checks for new email.  Most everything else does seem to run better/smoother than before though.

 

I wonder how many recent smartphones still run into these kinds of issues...

 

_Man_

 


Edited by ManW_TheUncool - 1/5/12 at 1:36pm
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