The archaic meaning, which is the way that I took Lark's reference, was the dictionary meaning of "seizing or carrying off by force." There is also violent seizure, despoliation, etc, which have nothing to do with sexual references.
RAH
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The archaic meaning, which is the way that I took Lark's reference, was the dictionary meaning of "seizing or carrying off by force." There is also violent seizure, despoliation, etc, which have nothing to do with sexual references.
RAH

Actually, there are some scenes in MFL that are worse than the dvd, as far as the fading and colors are concerned.


Let's remain calm and respectful, everyone.
There's plenty of room at the HTF for differing opinions. We'll accept them all as long as they are presented in a civil manner.


You're spending your monies not theirs and as long as you're happy with this BRD despite its flaws then that's the only opinion that should really matter to you.
Crawdaddy
True. Because at 480i, it was far less obvious.
RAH
I'm going to bring up something that I've suggested in the past, but apparently cannot be performed.
One of the major problems with the Blu-ray format is its ability to properly replicate the look and texture of the cinema in a home theater environment. It can do this better than many a 16mm print from an original release, and within certain parameters of size, can hold its own against a properly struck 35mm print. And all on a tiny disc, and without scratches, splices, jitter or bob and weave. All within a 1920 x 1080 format.
Blu-ray, much like HD, was sold to the public for this purpose.
And many, many home theater enthusiasts have become fans of the format.
But Blu-ray is very much a two-edged blade. It has the ability to expose a film's technical deficiencies.
Encode it with something that is properly prepared, from a correctly selected element, and with image and audio handled in the correct manner, and we have something really remarkable -- that look and feel of cinema.
I've referred to Blu-ray as a "bucket," which is what it is.
It can be filled with anything. Still photographs, music, or alternatively, motion pictures, whether they be sourced from a scratched and splice-ridden 16mm dupe intended for VHS, or from an original 65mm negative, with an image properly harvested at 8k.
It is what it is.
In the early days of Blu-ray, which aren't long ago, errors were made, as the studios learned how to use the format. WB mistakenly used some 1080i masters, and then quickly set about pulling titles from the release schedule, and replacing with 1080p. We would (and still do) see window-boxed main titles, without necessity. Audio formats occasionally get reversed. Errors occur. Growing pains.
Titles such as The Gangs of New York, Patton, The Longest Day were released, as studio execs were sold snake oil by vendors who proclaimed that they could get rid of the grain that was inherent in all "old" films, which was the destroyer of images, especially in the days of 480i, making compression difficult. Vendors sold their wares, and actually got unwary execs to believe that they could take an old transfer, run it through proprietary software, and out would come a perfect 1080p HD master, which would turn on the kudo machine when seen by the public.
This situation was not necessarily based upon execs attempting to short-cut the system, or not spend the funds necessary to create proper transfers. These vendors were paid well for their snake oil.
As far as I can tell, only a single recent Blu-ray fits into the category of "let's spend nothing," or "let's see if we can pull one over on the public," and that would unfortunately be that disc that should have been lovelier than ever.
With that singular exception, most recent problems come from negligence. QC people, if there are QC people, not knowing what a film is supposed to look like, as opposed to simply QCing to make certain that audio does not disappear for a minute or two, or that odd digital patterns do not run down the center of an image.
It seems that the concept of having a human who actually knows the product being QC'd is a novel event for some.
You won't find this occurring at Columbia, or Fox, as they have set up their corporate functions so that real eyes view product before it is approved, beginning with the selection of elements, and ending with approval of a Blu-ray disc.
Let's return to the point that I mentioned at the start of this piece.
What I had suggested several years ago, was some sort of situation similar to "No wine before its time," or "The quality goes in before our logo goes on."
Some mechanism within the Blu-ray marketing and licensing arena, which would prevent situations such as those with West Side Story from occurring. Some sort of overall quality control for the bucket. Lucasfilm used to have TAP, which was a very workable organization. making certain that theatres were technically up to snuff before a major release went into the field. We used them for several 70mm releases, and the results were generally always positive. They were a force (no pun intended) actually visiting venues, checking equipment for sound and image quality, and sitting and viewing every print before it was shipped. They were dis-enablers of potential problems. And they still have my gratitude.
How can this affect Blu-ray?
I'm not certain that it can, as the format is out there in the wild, available for use by anyone who wishes to use it.
The problem is that all those Blu-ray "buckets" can be filled with either rocks or glory, and sometimes a bit of both.
So that concept would seem unworkable.
There is no Blu-ray Board of Examiners, checking film-based releases. DI-based productions should not need it.
The only other means of getting things correct is to somehow restrain the release of product that falls below standards with proper education at the studio level. But let's be honest. What 25 year-old doing QC actually knows what a film like West Side Story looks like. Anyone? This is where Fox and Columbia have their act together.
This means that those above need to do proper due diligence, actually pulling an original print, creating a properly prepared continuity, having elements examined by people who know precisely what those tiny scribe marks outboard of the perforations on original negatives mean, and then relating them to the continuity and to that properly anointed reference print.
If all of that is done, a major release, the cost of which should be in decent six figures, will come out the other end with all of its quality intact. In the end, this is the easiest and least expensive means of getting a quality Blu-ray out to the public. The other problem, of course, is that a major classic release should begin with newly sourced data. Old data can only lead to problems.
None of this is terribly difficult. Nor terribly expensive.
"It's only a matter of going."
RAH

Quote:
I would have to say that "The Greatest Story Ever Told" falls into that catagory
"My Fair Lady" on the other hand looks much better in HD than "TGSET" in terms of image sharpness/detail with the exception of the fading at the sides.
I would suspect a little more care went into the "My Fair Lady" disc than TGSET. Problem was not enought care went into either of these films and MFL deserved more care since it is a better seller and a better film. (quite possibly no care went into TGSET)
When "Viva Las Vegas" (35MM which looks very good) looks better than "My Fair Lady" (70MM Superpanavision) (both from 1964) on Blu-ray something is wrong

The old Biblical advice about not casting "pearls before swine" is a cliché that became cliché because it is true. I'm 28, and I find these people even more obnoxious, considering they're of my generation. And you are right, they know nothing about movies. If I never hear the phrase "mise-en-scene" from a non-Francophone again, I will not miss it.
Your experience is symptomatic of an epidemic of cultural ignorance. As late as the 1990s, MAD was still doing parodies of classic poetry that none of its target audience was required to read anymore. It's also symptomatic of a decline in manners.


So much to digest in the past 3-4 pages about of my favorite films that I was fortunate to see in its original presentation in my home city. The theater had been an ancient hall going back over 60 years and converted to show show 70mm, TODD-AO etc and owned by Fox and rather a long narrow place. So South Pacific and Sound of Music both had long engagements at that venue. They shunted Cleopatra to a smaller venue(a former Paramount fleahouse going back pre-1920) which Fox remained The Cleopatra with 70mm equipment for the duration.It was an Easter Monday and I had either just turned 15 or about to at the time. It was a present from someone and a most wanted to see film. I was forever more rapt in this film and it is ironic that a major location setting street in the film has been discontinued and a large entertainment library built on that former street.
I have the Laserdisc and DVD presentations of this film. I have two copies of the deluxe version of this Blu Ray release which I did not pay for in the end as I was refunded the money due to these errors and told to keep them both. The second copy has a new barcode stuck on it.
It amazes me that all the greatest films of all time(well, moreorless) coming out at the period originally and the same period on Blu Ray and both being flawed. With MFL they could have got Warner to do it and paid accordingly(afterall The African Queen was done there for Blu Ray). Had Warners got the MGM/UA family in two attempts to buy it(would the Monopolies objected) under two different distress feelers, we might have got a better result from those elements that would have been Warners and all these forum pages would not have existed or need t have existed. Under laws in my country I would have every right to have my money refunded as the release was not as it should be. Bit like a car without a steering wheel which means I can't use it and enjoy driving it.
People have mentioned quality presentations in a theater. I recall when many years ago there was a revival(maybe 1980s) of Fantasia. I had never seen it but knew all about it and sold two incarnations of the soundtrack LPs. One as a boxed 2-disc(twofer) with a wizard Mickey on the top lid and the other the US fold out twofer. A friend wanted to see this at a downtown place that had been converted to several screens(another once a Paramount house that had been a live theater once) on a weekday evening performance and his wife did not want to go so I was invited(met Tex Beneke as an old man in Melbourne thru the same lady not wanting to go). Well, the print would not have got house room in my place. Faded, badly scratched, spliced over and over and very noisy background thru soundtrack wear. We should demanded the money back at such a rip-off. But my point is that it gives a bad image of older films to a young audience. I remember back in the 80s when a radio station had a session of Glenn Miller and I got guys coming to my shop wanting to hear some and maybe buy a record or two. Lost out because they kept asking what all the background crackle was. The radio playings were filtered so the noise was not apparent over the airwaves. Its the future generations that must like what we do if these oler classics are going to survive in the marketplace and not disappear for good. Give a good presentation and you win a few more collectors in the future.
I have had so many people palm off their "Gray" area DVDs or VHS and they are mostly horrible. These items would not exist if the companies that own or owned them put out quality DVD etc. I really don't want them and don't sit and watch them. But people have paid good money for them and over much more than they should in the first place.
The same people who buy this crap complain to me if they see a pixel on a commercial DVD!!! I play the disc and there is none. They ask me to clean the disc and the pixel will go away. I go thru the motions. So crappy DVD-Rs are OK but a pixel on a commercial DVD causes an uproar.
I did nothing yet on MFL Blu Ray for a refund but got my The Phantom of the Opera replacement from Image yesterday in a fully packaged unit but was expecting only the disc in a sleeve.

