Important Announcement regarding 60th Anniversary Edition of A CHRISTMAS CAROL (Alastair Sim)

The introduction isn't very festive. I loved the introduction Patrick MacNee did about 20 years ago by a roaring fire and flickering Christmas tree. I'll have to retain my old DVD for that. It's sort of nostalgia for me as it included the first time I ever saw the film, when I was about 5.

Looking forward to this! Christmas isn't Christmas without Alastair Sim as Scrooge.

I didn't get the Blu-Ray that was previously issued as I only got a Blu-Ray player last year for Christmas, so this is a welcome addition to my collection.  As a title that gets watched every year, this is a no-brainer for an upgrade.  

 

I haven't actually watched the whole thing yet - we always wait til pretty close to Christmas for this one - but I have sampled it.  To say I'm stunned at how good it looks is an understatement.  This is the way I've wanted this title to look through all those years of VHS, LaserDiscs and DVDs.  Finally, we have a good-looking clean print.

 

Harry

I'm trying to figure out why both blu ray editions of A Christmas Carol have those odd jerky jumps. It only happens to part of the frame, but they are constant throughout the film. When you slow step through the frames, they appear normal. I have never seen this problem on any other film ever. Can someone offer theories? I'm not as well versed in HD transferring as some of you are, and can't decide what might have happened here. But VCI did a new transfer and the jumps are still there.

I tend to collect most versions of A CHRISTMAS CAROL, and got this one several times already, a couple of purchases seemed to be nothing more than a change of packaging so I'm leery of buying it again after that "seriously remastered" DVD. One thing I liked about it was they included a 16x9 AR version. I'm not going to buy the BluRay if it doesn't have that.

I've been playing the "A CHRISTMAS CAROL" upgrade game for years and also have that 16x9 thing.  I found that one to be a total abomination, chopping off heads and feet for the sake of filling out the sides of my TV screen.  No thank you.  I can zoom any proper 1.33:1 transfer if I feel in the mood for chopping off heads.  

 

And I thought that DVD set was a pretty decent upgrade from prior issues - but this 60th Anniversary Blu-Ray is definitely the way to go.  I see the jumpiness, particularly at scene changes, but always dismiss that since I believe they're grabbing individual scenes from many different but flawed prints and negatives and the ravages of time take their toll.  I was just amazed at how good the Alastair Sim film looked when I put the 60th Anniversary Blu-Ray disc in to sample it.

 

I'm not fond of the nearly-forced promo material at the start of the disc, and I wish they'd have given an opt-out option on Leonard Maltin's intro, though it too looks great in high-def - I just don't want to have to sit through it every time I watch the film, or have to hit chapter skip to advance it.

 

Harry

 

 

 

Does anyone have any idea why Amazon has discontinued this title? I didn't pick it up when the price was good, and now it looks like I missed out. I'm hoping to find it at a bargain price for next Christmas. I'd like to benefit from this newest Blu-ray transfer as it has been said to be noticeably better than the former one.

That link brings up only the buy page for Scrooge, not the info promised on Santa Claus and other holiday releases.

The point of creating a specific 16x9 transfer is to avoid cutting off heads... can you tell me where they have heads cut off? I just watched most of the 16x9 version and there's only a few shots where tops of heads are cropped out. This could have been avoided easily by an old-fashioned shot-by-shot pan/scan session like they were doing for TV and homevid for years, except now they are going for a widescreen instead of a square.

I saw no shot that in this movie that couldn't work that way. The few times the tops of people's heads were out there was plenty of nonessential stuff near the bottom so they could have cropped higher. This time it seems they just cropped it and left it there.

I'm not lobbying for all 1.33 movies to be cropped to fit wide sets anymore than I did for widescreen to be cropped for square TVs. HOWEVER... Just as we've had to live with pan/scan on the same disc as letterbox for in the past, I'd like to have that option now for 16x9. Giving me that OPTION on 1.33 material is not going to take anything away from the folks who prefer the square.

I have been using the zoom on my TV, for 1.33 content on a case by case basis, and find in 99.9% of cases I can zoom to full width and nudge it up a degree or two to keep heads in the frame and never miss anything. I was doing that on some Holiday movies and specials, and then began to notice the same thing being done on the HD Broadcast version of the same movies and specials, so I'm obviously not alone.

The forced Maltin intro is also a sale-killer for me - I'm already sick of him being forced on me in all those animation sets. He's all over the place like Starbucks, except you're not forced into every one of their stores. I'm against forced intros as a rule because they get old really fast and become a timewaster when you really just want to get to whatever feature you're trying to view.
Edited by NY2LA - 12/19/11 at 4:00am

I'm sorry, but there is no good way to take a 1.33:1 movie and make it 16x9. You're bound to cut off too much information from the top and/or bottom of the frame. Besides, don't forget what HTF is all about; from the HTF "About Us":

We the members of the forum are interested in the film product to be recorded and reproduced as closely as possible to the way the original creator(s) of that particular film intended.

I can't imagine watching this classic in anything other than its intended aspect ratio.
Edited by Brian McHale - 12/22/11 at 10:17am

I'm usually pretty lenient about alterations to home versions of films as long as the original is also available, as NY2LA mentioned.  Thus I can tolerate a colorized MIRACLE ON 34TH STREET or A CHRISTMAS CAROL as long as that same set has the original black & white.  That gives ME the choice to either watch the altered version as a curiosity or to ignore it.

 

When the DVD release of A CHRISTMAS CAROL came out a few years ago with three versions of the same film, I was kind of excited.  We got a newly "restored" black & white in 1.33:1, a colorized version from a few years earlier in 1.33:1, and a 16x9 version of the "restored" film.  I was excited about that and thought I might be able to live with a tilt'n'scan version on the widescreen TV.

 

But when I put the thing on, the image was just as fuzzy as if I took the "restored" version and zoomed in on it myself.  And to me it looked center-cut so that occasionally tops of heads were chopped off.  The fuzzy image was the biggest turn-off, but the head-chopping was the last straw.  I've not bothered with that option on that disc since that first experimentation.

 

The new Blu-Ray is far and away better than that old DVD.  I've read that it's an improvement over the prior Blu-Ray release, which I've never seen, so I have no frame of reference for that.  And I believe that the included DVD of the newer transfer is also an upgrade from the older DVD.

 

Harry

I just did a little more investigation into these different DVD versions, aspect ratios, etc.  And I was a little hasty in deeming the 16x9 transfer to not be a tilt'n'scan but rather a center cut.  After some comparisons, I can see that indeed, at least in the early going of the film, they did do some tilting.  After Scrooge issues his first "Humbug", he goes outside the London Exchange. The next scene is him coming out the door onto the steps of the London Exchange where he's met by Samuel Wilkins, the man who can't repay his loan.  At the fade between the two scenes, we can see that the prior scene was tilted upwards a bit to include the heads of the gentlemen talking (though Scrooge's hat is still cut off a bit).  As it transitions to outside, the frame is a bit high and we can't see most of the snowy steps of the Exchange.  As Scrooge approaches, the scene tilts down to reveal more of the steps and less of the high arch of the doorway.

 

I'm going to do a little DVD-Beaver-style comparison here with three examples of the same frame.

 

This is Nephew Fred entering his Uncle Ebenezer's office in the VCI Ultimate Edition DVD, 4x3 version, 2007.

 

Nephew Fred enters Uncle Ebenezer's office in the VCI Ultimate Edition DVD, 16x9 version, 2007.  Notice his head is chopped off as he bounces upward out of the frame, and that the chest-like object at the foot of the shelves has all but disappeared.

 

Nephew Fred enters Uncle Ebenezer's office in the VCI Blu-Ray/DVD Combo, DVD version, 16x9 framing of a 4x3 picture (black bars are part of the image), 2011.

 

The image on this latter DVD came out VERY dark in my screen capture, but the improved clarity can be compared by looking at the candle.

 

The actual Blu-Ray, which I cannot capture on the computer, looks even better and sharper.

 

Harry

 

I kinda like the 1.20:1 aspect ratio of the original M, so would like to see VCI give us that option also, in B&W and.......COLORIZED. Then we'd have an original aspect B&W, original aspect color job, a 16:9 B&W and 1.20:1 B&W and color. I'd also like a box set that included a kitchen sink!

Brian's post #10 is a welcome reminder of what I'd imagined HTF was a platform for. Serious cinema fans.

I placed my Amazon order for this on November 28th and received it (with a bunch of other stuff on the same order) on December 6th.  Amazon was charging $13.99 at the time of my order and the price didn't change, up or down.  I'm glad I got it when I did now that it's all but disappeared.  

 

Though I don't expect much from brick & mortar retail stores anymore, this is a title that I'd expect them to carry - yet I haven't seen it in the Christmas Blu-Ray/DVD sections of any stores this year - nor the older Blu-Ray - or ANY version of this film, this year.

 

Harry
 

 

I guess I wasn't quick enough to get the lower price, but believe me, this one's worth whatever they wanted to charge me.  I have no regrets about it at all.

 

Harry

I saw that cheap price for the Blu-ray, too, and the moment I did, I pulled my 2007 DVD off the shelf, put it in one of my Blu-ray players, and watched about 15 minutes of it (various scenes). I thought it upconverted nicely and figured I'd save the money and not get the Blu. Now, with all this talk, maybe I DID make the wrong decision, but it's one I'll likely have to live with until another Christmas season comes our way. I did notice the uptick in price just a few days later.

I got it last month when it was at $10.99 on Amazon.  I even upgraded from the blu-ray of just two years ago.  Without a doubt, this is the film I have upgraded most often.  Nothing else is even close.

 

I watched it tonight...and it was glorious.  I especially liked the lossless 2.0 soundtrack.

 

This blu-ray looks and sounds great.  It is amazing that it is a 60-year-old film.  And to think of the butchered versions that used to show up on TV back in the day...

 

As I was watching it tonight--anticipating nearly every scene--I couldn't help but think that Sim's portrayal of Scrooge has to rank as one of the greatest all-time performances committed to film. 

Though it's getting late in the game to mention this now, I bought the new blu-ray last night at a brick & mortar B&N, 40% off sale this week, so $11.99 before tax.

Sampled some scenes and was impressed, though I think I see the frame problem that some have mentioned, and to my novices eyes, it looks like it has something to do with the transitions from scene to scene, where the dissolves may be from a different source. Keeping in mind that I watched less than 5 minutes last night, and only 2 dissolves, it appeared to be something that I can live with, especially considering how nice the picture appeared up until the dissolves.

However, that forced VCI commercial when the disc loads, is an utter abomination. Put the disc in and walk away for 5 minutes to fix a toddy, is my advice.

I've found that with my Sony Blu-Player, I can hit "Top Menu" when the forced promo starts.  Then the menu comes up, I hit "Play" and the Maltin thing starts.  Then I can hit "Next |>" six times to get to the end of the six (!) chapters of Maltin's intro.  So it's not as bad as some *really* forced promos.  You can get past the stuff.

 

The jumpiness in the picture at scene dissolves, has, for all intents and purposes always been there in this movie, at least as far as I can recall, and I've seen many versions. If that's all people can find to b|tch about then I see that as a good thing. It's really a minor issue in my book.  During the dissolves, the sharpness disappears for a few seconds too.  Heck, during dissolves in most more-modern films, the colors fade.

 

Harry

 

I have an Oppo BDP-83 and tried hitting menu buttons as well as the colored buttons, but nothing seemed to work for me --- I'll try again once I'm ready to watch the whole film. Thanks.

As to the dissolves, I'm hopeful that that is all that was being talked about regarding frame jumps --- as long as it's not some digital anomaly that was introduced into the film but is rather a flaw inherent to the original source (or sources), then I don't see myself having a problem with it and being taken out of the picture. We'd all like perfection, but the lack of it can't be allowed to destroy the enjoyment that we get from our movies.

I have a Panny BD-55 and I was able to get to "Top Menu" when the horrible VCI promo begins upon spin-up. 

 

And, I agree, the Maltin intro should be optional.  It is a terrible decision to, in effect, make the Maltin intro a "part of the film" (at least on this disc). 

 

It's funny, I was watching the Maltin intro when my wife started mocking it, "Oh. I wonder what other films the Assistant Director worked on...."    I told her, "Dear, I'm actually interested in what he's saying."  I believe I got an eyeroll from her. 

A) I disagree. From my own experience. A good 16x9 transfer can be made of this film without cutting off any heads. I've done it with my set's variable zoom, which can also slide up and down within the frame.

B) I did not say the square version should be REPLACED by the "full (HD) screen" version, I said we should have the OPTION.

C) I've seen numerous examples on Broadcast/cable TV. I believe it will become as common as 4x3 Pan/Scan was.

I find it funny that anyone would think my preference for a wider picture would make me less "Serious" about movies than others here. I prefer the wide picture because the square picture looks to me like television. Anyway, the point is moot. The reality is that old 4x3 material is already being adapted into 16x9. People wanting to re-sell this material yet again are going to have to release both adapted and original OAR.
Edited by NY2LA - 12/21/11 at 9:12am

The listing shows the correct release date of 11/1/11. B&N has a bad habit of not always showing the correct art -- and will substitute old vhs art (seen it before -- quite lazy of them, really).

The jumps aren't just at the dissolves. They practically happen whenever one character moves. And the whole frame doesn't jump, just the person moving.

Ron

Somewhere else online this deal was mentioned recently, and the OP said that they ordered from this listing and did indeed receive the 60th anniversary edition. They also said the SKU numbers match up (and they do). I went the brick & mortar route because, with the 40% off sale, the price is essentially the same, if you include shipping cost on the website order, plus I wanted the disc before Xmas, and only expedited shipping will reliably achieve that now.

Todd