2012 trends/guestimates/ predictions. - Page 3

Is there any hope for Sea Hunt? Gotten addicted to this show on This TV and the prints they're showing look pristine.

Would like season sets of this program.

Well this is just my theory but I think the reason Melrose was stalled had more to do with the 2009 revival series. I think one half-season came out while the revival series was on the air, and perhaps they felt it was confusing to consumers to suddenly see dvds of 12 year old episodes. Or something like that. But the fact that season six just barely came out a couple months ago makes me think that Paramount has a definite endgame in mind for the rest of the series. And I was a big fan of MP and hope to see it to its conclusion. Maybe it's just my personal hope for that show on dvd that's clouding my logic, but then again--I have no bloody clue why CBS/Paramount does what it does in terms of its weird release schedules!!!

Oh, and I found this on amazon--does anyone know the story about this listing? This could just be fan-made box cover art...but it's actually very, very good if that is the case!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001JAHR38

I don't get why they don't make S1 of "Alice" available as a MOD set immediately. It has been on I-Tunes for several years now (along with "Flo"), yet it has been stated the reason for no DVD release is because of "issues with the masters".

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Jack, I think we are always going to see these two issues differently.  From everything I've personally known to everything I've gleaned from others over the last 10 years pressed DVDs are undoubtedly more reliable than DVD-Rs.  They are more reliable in terms of longevity and compatibility.  I've had more than one burned DVD-R "die" on me and I've certainly had some that didn't want to play in certain machines.  And while I know the DVD-18s from Universal have had a notorious history, I've never had one go bad on me.  So we will likely never see eye to eye on this issue.  Give me pressed DVDs over burned DVD-Rs every day of the week and twice on Sundays. 

 

As for the price point, I'm again never going to see it the way you do until WBA demonstrates that they'll have 40%-50% off sales for their TV titles.  Because the fact is if a person is willing to wait, you can always get that type of discount with a pressed disc release.  It may take a while (and by the same token it may not), but it can be done.  With MOD products we are at the mercy of the price point decided by a company.  And that's the big, big difference.  I'd love to know where on Amazon, or anywhere else, I can get Archive titles for anything close to 50% off.  I'd already have a copy of The F.B.I. if I could get the split season sets for $20 each (shipping/tax included).  But the fact is we aren't even sniffing prices like this with the WBA titles.  I think it was Brad who mentioned some time ago that the pricing structure for the Archives makes it less likely for people to blind buy titles.  I know I feel that way.  When I can get a title at a nice discount I'm much more apt to try a series out that I'm not sure about.  But if I'm having to pay $70 or more a season for a series I'm not sure about it's unlikely that I'll blind buy it.  That just doesn't make financial sense for me (since I'm not a millionaire - LOL).  I know someone on this board who has discovered the joys of watching The Fugitive because he was able to pick up a couple of sets at liquidation prices.  That would have never happened with the Archive program.  It just wouldn't.  So this is another one we'll never be on the same page about. 

 

 

Gary "in spite of these differences in opinion, I'm still happy for the WBA program because at least it makes some titles available that otherwise would never see the light of day" O.

A perfect example, A few weeks ago I was at Sam's and picked up Murder One, a Bochco series from the mid-90's that only went two seasons. I had never seen it before but noticed that reviews indicated it was pretty good. So at $16 a season I thought it worth the gamble knowing I could probably get close to half that back in trade-in if it didn't work out. In the end, I enjoyed it very much and I'm happy to now include it in my collection. The power in invoking the "blind-buy" is all in the price. People like to point to Perry Mason as an example of a higher priced pressed disk for comparison, but even it experiences 50% discounts from time to time to attract new viewers. I'm not against the MOD program. It is just that I have to know I really-really want the title in order to purchase at its pricing model. No blind buys at this price point for me.

Before this thread gets too derailed in the pro vs. con camps of MODs, I just wanted to mention something that should be stated with regard to imminent trends for our hobby and the general nature of home theater. This discussion and all of its various components has been had before in this space any number of times, but I do think it bears repeating that as much as we might want to chastise the studios or Netflix for helping to create what could may well be the death of physical media, you still need to follow the money.

We can't ignore the fact that regardless of who's fault it was, the general public stopped buying DVDs in large enough numbers to satisfy the manufacturers. And in the aftermath, the concept of streaming moved in to patch that hole at least for the time being. Like it or not, and I personally don't like it much, once again the general public had their say in adopting this new method and in enough numbers to make the manufacturers take notice. Taking personal preferences out of the equation, and any ideas and ideals they may bring to right and wrong, the fact remains that while wide acceptance of streaming and its more or less related technology may deliver the ultimate blow to physical media, if it hadn't been that it would have been something else. The sales of CDs and DVDs were already on life support and it was unlikely anything would have revived it.

I personally see a place for both and am hoping, though without a great amount of confidence, that the two will continue to co-exist on some level for a long time to come. Because of exclusive contracts between Netflix and certain studios, I have been able to see some films I have wanted to see for decades and ones which never stood a chance of ever being released anywhere in any format. Do I feel a loss in that I can't keep them and experience them for as long as I might like whenever I like? Of course. But getting older and recognizing, though perhaps not always accepting, that not everything is going to last or is meant to last, perhaps living in the moment sometimes isn't such a bad thing. I'm coming to terms with the fact that as far as this hobby goes, I no longer need to own EVERYTHING. For right now I am enjoying the best of both worlds and looking upon my collection, including the more fleeting collection of titles in the stream queue, as the best of both worlds for however long it lasts. I don't begrudge the future its say nor do I fear it, but I also like to have at least some of my past remain close at hand.

Gary, I'd sure like to know what player you were using because the number of aggravating stories those DVD-18s gave me on four different players and my computer would make your head spin. And there's nothing that can kill the joy of watching a show on DVD than having to do a marathon session just to make sure one of those freeze-ups skips doesn't happen at one point to ruin the whole set and require you to watch the same episodes again over and over on new sets until you find one that was done right.

I had one DVD-VCR combo player that could not handle the Warner Archive DVD-Rs. But the fact that they play just fine on all other machines negated that problem for me just like the fact that I can only play Blu-Ray on one player and foreign region discs on one player.

Glen, Good points. For me, I just work within the environment that is available. If this was back in the day when VHS was dominate, I would probably have a cabinet of tapes, only fewer because pricing wouldn't have allowed the type of collection I have now on DVD. If MOD replaces pressed disks and are controlled by the studios then that is what I will work with. Same being true with streaming. Where things get a bit tricky is when you have overlap. Right now we still have pressed disks with competitve pricing, along with the newer streaming and MOD programs. Now the pressed disk model with vendor pricing competition may be on the way out. But until it is, and while there are desired titles within that model, it will remain the avenue of choice for many of us. After that it comes down to adjusting to change or being happy with what one has. Luckily, this run has built up quite a few collection so it is quite possible for some to just stand pat. for the most part.

Jack, I've had no problems playing DVD-18's up to this point. I primarily have used a Denon 2900 DVD player, but as it wears out i will move more to my Oppo BD83 for general viewing, and then there is my Marantz for region free playback. My theory on the DVD-18 playback issue is two fold. First, I think there were issues identified with disks coming from a plant in Mexico (I seem to recall). Second, many of the players at the time were based on spec's before two-sided, dual layer disks started to become prevelant. I just think there were lower tolerance levels when reading those disks. In addition, many players use the same chipsets and transport mechanism's that just may not have beem thoroughly tested against that format of disk, which could explain why many players were having the same problem. Like i said that is my theory.

Of course, for those folks with no FIOS/cable (and a big chunk of the country is in that boat), a conversion to streaming simply means this: They'll never sell us a damn thing because the bandwidth isn't there, and most likely never will be. That doesn't even doesn't begin to consider the issue of overall bandwidth.

And don't talk about Wi-Fi as a solution. That's what I'm reduced to, and even low-rez stops every 30 seconds to load some more.

As for my wish TV wish list for 2012, it's only one: Harry O. Don't even care if it's MOD. I'll pay the price for it. So far, Warner Archive hasn't released any series that I'd buy. The FBI is the closest, but still a no-go.

My other two, Slattery's People and The Great Adventure, I'm not foolish enough to think will ever come out in any form.

So give me Harry O and I'll be happy.

I agree with all of this, Brad. Well said.

I have also had problems with DVD 18s, but it was only on an inferior region free Philips player that I bought as a cheap temp before venturing to Blu. It was in one of the Universal multi-disc Legacy horror sets and it irritated me enough to seek out the old double feature single sided DVDs that Universal had previously released of the same films. I just couldn't trust that it wouldn't happen again. Perhaps now with my Panasonic Blu player and an Oppo SD player, I wouldn't have the same problems. But I will say that the Oppo I have can be fussy with DVD-Rs and at times not even register that a DVD is in the drive. I play most of my DVD-Rs through my Blu player now, which hasn't given me much trouble with anything.
Edited by Professor Echo - 10/2/11 at 6:17pm

Hennesey is a Screen Gems/Columbia/Sony Property
Stoney Burke is United Artist - MGM/UA
Saints and Sinners is Four Star/20th Century Fox

Unlikely these will be released,or licensed out, anytime soon.

Wow, excellent post Glen.  And Brad as well.  There's no questioning the simple and logical points you've both made about accepting what is in front of us.  It is what it is and at the end of the day no amount of complaining is going to change it.  So rolling with the punches is really the only choice.  And like both of you, I'll do the same thing.  For financial reasons (primarily), I will wear out the pressed DVD model as long as it's available.  Thank you Shout, Timeless, and, to a lesser degree, CBS/Paramount for keeping this option alive for a bit longer. 

 

 

Gary "there's no doubt pressed DVDs are slowly on the way out - that's painfully obvious to me at this point" O.

I'm not Gary, but I discovered years ago that things like season 1 of Adam-12 played just fine in my Playstation 3. They gave me nothing but issues in my standalone DVD players, my DVD/VHS recorders, my DVD computer drives, and on other game consoles like my Playstation 2.

But for some unknown reason, they'd play problem free in my Playstation 3.

"Fantastic Journey" is a Sony, not a Universal property.

Streaming or downloading sounds like a bad case of 'look what we can do technically', and about as appealing to me as bathing in lava, it seems to be more of an attraction to 20-somethings and even younger. Since we're not all robots yet, I want the product in my hand for my player, please. Anyway, for the new year I just hope WAC will continue the good trend they've slowly started, and that Paramount starts picking up the classics anew so they can reclaim the #1 position again. Such as Barnaby Jones, Cannon, etc. Or perhaps something for us Bill Bixby fans out there, with The Magician's sole season. And of course, more great success for Shout and Timeless releases so their surprises for us may go on. Another wish is, that more studios began their own archive demand services, or at least licensed more out.

I suppose it depends on what motivates the individual to make a purchase.
Many DVD "collectors" don't even have time to watch all the shows they buy,
so downloading is going to hold less allure when you won't have something
in your hands to hold.

But if you just want to watch the show, when and wherever you desire, it really
makes very little difference what format the media is in. I also collect vinyl records,
and will be the first to admit that this is a separate and entirely different hobby
that just listening to music. People do both, and should be free to choose the
path they desire.

Similar experiences here too, for various Universal manufactured dvds. They're all across the board, with no rhyme or reason.

(For instance).

One of my Knight Rider season 3 disks, freezes on all on my stand alone dvd players. But it rips fine without any problems from my computer dvd drive.

One of my Law and Order: Criminal Intent season 5 disks, freezes on all my stand alone dvd players and even the XBox 360. But it rips fine on my computer dvd drive.

One of my Miami Vice season 2 disks, freezes on the computer dvd drive (whether watching or ripping). But it plays fine on the stand alone dvd players. (Similar story with one of my The A-Team season 4 disks).

On one of my Baretta season 1 disks, it freezes with two episodes being literally unwatchable on all my stand alone dvd players and the computer dvd drive. But it plays almost fine on my XBox 360 console. On the XBox 360, it only freezes at around the dual-disk layer transition. (One can fast forward or rewind on the XBox 360 to get around the freeze point, and missing around 2 or 3 seconds of video).

This was my third copy of Baretta season 1, after two previous exchanges from the store. It seems like it freezes at almost the same spot on disk 1. (Perhaps the store just got a bad batch, all with a very similar problem?) Then again, I only paid 9 dollars for the dvd set brand new (two weeks ago). Not going to complain too much about a dvd which I effectively paid 3 dollars for.

It would be great if they release the rest of the Law & Order: Criminal Intent seasons on dvd (ie. seasons 7 to 10).

Though I don't think this will happen in 2012. (Maybe season 7 if Universal thinks there's demand).

Are you referring to these following articles?

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2011/09/technology-post-dvd-hollywood.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/25/business/la-fi-cover-dvd-future-20110925-1

I think I completely missed the "boom years" for tv shows on dvd. I didn't pay much attention to the dvd market until recently, and wondered why the dvd market seemed so "sedated" these days (ie. very little excitement).

Previously I had very little to no interest in dvds of movies and tv shows. Before 2010, I only had around 20 dvds and one tv show box set (The Pink Panther Classic Cartoon Collection).


I only recently became interested in buying classic tv shows on dvd, within the last year or so . (I suppose going through a midlife crisis can do that ).

But I noticed that many classic tv shows I wanted were no longer on the shelves at local brick & mortar stores like WalMart, Best Buy, etc ... (I remember back in the mid-2000's, the dvd sections at brick & mortar stores like WalMart, Best Buy, etc ... use to be huge in comparison to what they are today. Today they seem to be about half the size of what they once were).

Eventually I found out that many classic tv show dvd sets were ending up in the bargain bins at local brick & mortar stores like: department stores, grocery stores, discount stores, and even a few gas stations (of all places). So over the last six months or so, I ended up going on a huge "binge" scavenging through the bargain bins and found many of the classic tv dvd sets I wanted for around $15 each (or less).

(I was picking up a lot of cheesy action type tv shows I use to watch when I was a younger, such as: The A-Team, MacGyver, Miami Vice, Knight Rider, Dukes of Hazzard, Starsky & Hutch, etc ...).


With streaming becoming more popular and dvds becoming less popular, at times I wonder if we'll ever see subsequent later dvd season sets which have not been released yet, such as for tv shows like: Simon & Simon, Hart to Hart, Silk Stalkings, Baretta, Charlie's Angels, etc ...

Perhaps I have been lucky so far, that I have been able to find almost all the classic tv dvd sets I wanted at a low price, before they completely disappeared from the market. I'm sorta glad I didn't pay $40 or $50 (or more) per dvd set, back in the mid 2000's.

I'm not into streaming at present since I prefer to collect physical media since I own the media and am not being limited in my private use of that item by encoded streaming.

Well, as one "collector", I will question your "many collector" point. Perhaps that's correct, but I'm not in that category. I rotate my viewing with my DVD collection and as a result, I have very few sets on the shelf that I haven't begun viewing and zero DVD sets that are still unopened.

As for streaming, I'm not up to date with the techincal info but correct me if this is incorrect here: If you purchase a streamed item, you can't burn that movie or show to the physical media of your choice. That's my understanding of current streaming encoding protocols. If that's true, that is a major reason why I'm not a proponent of streaming. If I buy something from a studio, I think that I should have the right to burn that item for my private collection. That way, if or when I decide to unsubscribe to Netflix/Amazon, or any provider's streaming service, I'll still have that series or movie available for re-viewing on my schedule and it won't be unavailable.

Your points bring up something that's always been stange to me, given a format that's been around since '97? There seems to be a considerable amount of inconsistancies in the format that I would have expected to have been debugged over the years. I've been fortunate with most of my studio purchases where they play without problems on my standalone player.

Sounds like you had a good plan. I was halfway on the money-saving timetable. Since I did get into the TV/DVD collector scene around '03, I did spend some more $$'s than I would have had I waited until recently but I rarely spent more than ~$30 per season excluding the split-season CBS sets.

Streaming, well, we'll see how that goes with trends. There are several series that have been continued in the streaming market that aren't available on DVD and that's good for those that are set up and into streaming. There's not been a lot of the streaming titles that have persuaded me to get there yet.

These days Apple sells computers without any optical drives. This and along with dvds becoming less and less popular, I'm not particularly optimistic about the hardware manufacturers ironing out the bugs from dvd players. I wouldn't be surprised if at this point, they largely don't give a damn anymore.

(ie. From a business perspective, why bother improving a declining or "dying" technology?)

One of the few methods left to improve dvd drive performance, would be to hack the drives to just read the raw unprocessed dvd disc data and processing the raw data by software on a computer (ie. deinterleaving, reed-soloman error correction, etc ...). Albeit in the end, this long hard road may very well be an exercise in futility, especially for dvd discs one only paid $5 for (or less).


Back in the mid 2000's, I thought about picking up some tv dvd box sets like Miami Vice, Magnum PI, etc ... when they were first originally released. But then I heard a lot of complaints about the Universal double sided flipper discs having major problems, from friends and online. So at the time, I didn't think it was worthwhile spending $30 to $40 (or more) on such tv dvd box sets with major problems.

Earlier than that (circa early 2000's), there weren't really any tv dvd sets that I was interested in. I more or less stopped regularly watching scripted tv shows sometime in the late 1980's. By then, I only really watched random tv episodes whenever I was bored and channel surfing (such as first run shows like Silk Stalkings, MacGyver, Law & Order, Star Trek TNG, etc ...). I wasn't a big enough fan of such shows like Law & Order, Star Trek TNG, Stargate SG-1, X-Files, etc ... to want to buy the dvd sets back when they were first released in the early 2000's (at sky high prices, IIRC).

Fast forward to today, tv dvd sets for $15 (or less) is a lot easier to swallow when having to deal with discs with problems. I'm not going to complaint too much about discs which I effectively paid $4 each (or less). Missing a few seconds or even a few minutes of video, I can live with. Most of the time it's not too hard to guess what went on in the missing video.

At this point in time, I'm starting to run into this "problem".

The few tv series where I have watched all the episodes on dvd, are Stargate (SG-1, Atlantis, Universe), Caprica, and the Battlestar Galatica remake.

Lately I've slowly been making my way though the tv dvd sets of Knight Rider, The A-Team, MacGyver, The Incredible Hulk, The Bionic Woman, Hart to Hart, Numb3rs, and The Dukes of Hazzard.

I still have numerous other tv dvd sets which I haven't watched yet, such as: TekWar, Greatest American Hero, The X-Files, Lie To Me, Firefly, Psych, The Closer, Starsky & Hutch, CHiPs, the original Charlie's Angels, Airwolf, Wonder Woman, The 4400, etc ...


These are all tv dvd sets I have purchased within the last 6 months or so, for around $15 (or less) per set. (Before 2011, I had very little to no interest in buying tv dvd sets).



This may sound paradoxical.

For some strange reason, I find that I am less likely to watch something if I have the dvd and/or if I can stream it anytime I want.

Before I started buying a lot of tv dvd sets (ie. before 2011), I found that I was more willing to watch tv shows at their appointed scheduled broadcast times, for both first run shows and reruns.

Around 4 years ago or so, I started to regularly watch scripted tv shows again (after almost 20 years of not really giving a damn about television). At the time, I was "religiously" watching CSI reruns on Spike and AETV every day (even if they were episodes I have seen before). But when I had some of the CSI dvd box sets, I found that I had less and less interest in watching CSI, whether on tv, dvd, or online. (A friend loaned me some CSI and CSI:Miami dvd season sets at the time).

Today I don't really watch CSI, other than some random episodes via channel surfing whenever I'm bored.

I can certainly relate to this on a more general level.

In recent times, I have been going through a long drawn out midlife crisis. Knowing that I have a propensity for compulsive collecting type behavior from when I was younger, it took me a very long time to eventually accept that I no longer need to own everything.

It took me a long time to get over this in other niches, such as collecting music cds, books, etc ... Today I don't even think anymore about "completing" my music cd collection. (The notion simply doesn't occur to me anymore). As I got older, I came to the realization that for most of the music cds I was buying, I only ever listened to them once or twice. In the end, it turned out most of them were largely mediocre or outright crap. I suppose stuff that I use to find exciting and entertaining when I was a teenager, may look somewhat different through the eyes and ears of a middle aged adult. I think if most of my music cd collection were to suddenly disappeared overnight, I probably wouldn't miss much of it.


In the short time I have been collecting TV dvd sets (ie. around 6 months so far), I have not purchased many tv shows that I did not watch at all back in the day (even in genres I like). I have mostly been buying tv shows which I have nostalgia for, such as cheesy action type shows from the late-1970's and 1980's.

At this point, I haven't picked up any tv dvd sets of shows which were around before the mid-1970's. I haven't picked up many tv shows from the 1990's and 2000's, other than a few which I occasionally watched whenever I was bored and channel surfing, such as some cop shows (ie. Law & Order, etc ...) and science fiction stuff (ie. Stargate, X-Files, etc ...).

If I'm able to keep my compulsive collecting tendencies at bay, then there probably won't be many more dvd sets left for me to buy. It may very well be the shortest lived hobby I ever had.